I am really and truly puzzled why the length of a thread would make any difference at all in moderation.
Me, too! I learned so much from that thread.
I was just going to like this. But it’s so spot on so wanted to quote. Excellent post. @doschicos
It seems to me that some of the arguments in favor of agressive moderation are circular.
If the rules were more relaxed-i.e, the only things banned were spam, ad-hominem attacks, name-calling, extended political discussion-there would be fewer reports, and the mods would have less work.
The decision to try to regulate things like the line between discussion and debate or “off-topic” posts has to be a large part of what makes moderation so difficult.
I do miss the mega-COVID thread. I’m sorry it was closed. It is something the even my mom with some level of dementia realizes is affecting everyday life, now and for the foreseeable future. That thread definitely had some insights and info I didn’t find anywhere else. Thanks, @doschicos — you kept us all well-informed.
Where has this thread gone??
Jon, CC has heard the promise of fixing the CC layout and features many times before. And then things don’t get fixed. Or when they do other features no longer work. CC members get strung along while someone lets the “team” know about the issues. Come to think of it, that is all that was ever really promised – to “let the team know.”
Are you now one of the staffers who decides what the focus and future of CC is? If so, please be honest about the value that is placed on the parent contributions. There are many parents here who tirelessly help out each new year’s crop of college applicants. The level of ignorance of college applicants is amazing. And what happens here is that you don’t have the ignorant leading the ignorant, because the adult perspective is given. When applicants advise each other, just how useful do you think that is? But maybe all CC cares about is the clicks, which generate ad revenue.
So how many mods are there now? ML and Erin’s Dad and…? The Forum Champions can do moderator actions, but they aren’t in every area.
Please let us know in this thread (not in a new thread which will quickly become buried) what the decision is about the covid topic the moderation topic, and any big picture decisions CC is making about the future priorities of CC. You appear to have been brought onboard to facilitate a major overhaul of…something.
I’d like to think no one giving their opinion on this thread would have a problem with that post being reported. It also gives a lot of weight to those saying some folks posting should either be banned or given significant time out. If it’s someone getting their jollies out of such posts they’ll move on. If it’s someone thinking this is as “open” of a forum as FB, they’ll change their ways.
I like having an intelligent place to discuss things. I have no interest in seeing cc devolve into a schoolyard with bullies. Giving an opinion is one thing - even when others disagree with it. Tolerance is a great attribute. Putting folks down like that is something someone missed learning not to do back in kindergarten.
Back to the idea of @CCadmin_Jon wanting this forum to serve as a place to navigate the college process for his junior (incidentally the reason that probably 99.5% of us clicked here in the first place)…
Why would you not want the expertise of parents - and even adults who were once students here and now are adults but still participate (yes, these people are in the parent cafe too) to flourish on this site? You have parents who in their own family may have navigated the college process multiple times with multiple children. From high school to college to grad school to medical school…
A forum full of newbie parents going through the college process with their kids is going to be a lot of hamsters on a wheel trying to figure things out.
MAYBE the solution @CCadmin_Jon is to find a way to re-engage the knowledge of us parents to participate more in the college related threads in a positive way. Put out a call for what you need. Do you need more help in the financial aid forum? Let us know. Do you need more expertise in the Musical Theater forum? Put out a call.
It’s easy to do this. You’ll find us happily on the Parent Cafe with many talented folks probably willing to help.
@abasket such a great idea!
I bet lots of us would jump to help with such a specific request.
I found CC about 5 years ago via the athletic recruiting threads and found the advice there so extremely helpful for my D17 that I stuck around to explore other threads and am still here for S20. I don’t post too often, but in my opinion, the only thing that makes CC different and immensely more valuable than all the other college sites out there is the wealth of knowledge offered by all the other posters in the community.
So ironically, it is all the content that CC is getting for free that sets them apart from the other sites. If having the Parent Forum serves as an incentive for those long time members to stay on this site and continue to offer their knowledge and expertise here, why would the ‘CC Powers That Be’ discount that?
I also don’t understand why the original COVID thread was closed or why the length of a thread matters. Don’t you want content that people are interested in seeing and engaging with?
Edited to add that while I really appreciated the original post asking for input from the community, I also can understand why others have felt that subsequent posts by the OP were a bit condescending and dismissive,
It’s hard to get “tone” across, but please believe this isn’t meant to be snarky. Now that this site is owned by a large corporation, why aren’t there paid moderators? Why continue to rely on volunteers?
I’ve gotten a few warnings through the years, and my gripes include my perception that “not all moderators are created equal.” I sometimes wish there were a notation at the top of each thread which said who was moderating it. Without naming names, I feel that if Mod A is moderating, my post will be allowed to stand; if it’s moderator B, it will be deleted. I am NOT saying that in most cases either moderator is “wrong,” it’s just that not every moderator draws the discussion vs. debate line at the same place and after many years on this site, I can often figure out where the line is for various moderators.
I also dislike the fact that moderators participate in other threads. I feel at a distinct disadvantage voicing an opinion which disagrees with that of a moderator. IMO, posting in one thread while moderating others is a conflict of interest. That’s another reason I would prefer paid moderators who do NOT post. I also have seen instances in which I felt a particular post SHOULD be deleted but have NOT reported it because I think the identity of the poster guarantees it won’t be. IMO, not all posters are treated equally; “newbies” definitely get the short end of the stick. Some long time posters are permitted to post things that I do not think should be allowed.
So, while I know this isn’t what the OP asked for, I don’t think CC should continue to use volunteer moderators; I think it’s a job which should be held by a neutral, paid staff member.
@jonri, I see that you’ve gotten only four warnings in six years. Two were given by me ; two were given by another moderator. None of them seem like “gray” areas according to the Terms of Service. That’s what volunteer moderators are asked to do - enforce the TOS. If the site wants to loosen up the TOS rules, we will be happy to follow those.
I’m one of the more infrequent posters here, despite having been here around 9 years first as a lurker and then as a member. I found so much useful information here when my daughter was a junior in school and later when my son was but I think I find the Parent cafe most useful now. I feel like I’m a part of a larger community where I can comfortably ask a question which will get at least some useful answers. I haven’t intentionally reported a post as yet and though I find a few posts irritating (or seem aimed at actively looking for a fight), I’m able to sift through the content and get what I need.
The long threads may be difficult to navigate - I missed a few days of the other active Covid thread and have never been able to catch up - but consider the wealth of information that is available in these long threads.
The wedding thread is an example - though I don’t participate I have stored up so much good info that I can use if and when the time comes for my kids. The same goes for so many other threads.
If you move on to a forum with quick moving threads, you lose the sense of a community. More users will drop off. Newer members will leave as soon as their short-term purpose is accomplished. What would be the reason to linger? If that’s the new direction of CC, count me as one who will be leaving. A poll would be a good way to gauge what CC should look like in the future before redesign and avoid any more fiascos like the password one.
The old-timers have a ton of useful advice to give even if it isn’t directly related to current college admissions. Let the Parent Cafe continue in its current form and perhaps allow for moderation from users.
Maybe a system of downvotes could be used. If a post gets more than a certain number, it would be flagged for moderation. I use the red thumbs(or similar) down on my newsfeed and FB all the time - seems to work.
The TatinG/DosChicos mega Covid thread was my single most useful source of global information on Covid-19 anywhere. As someone who has relatives in 4 continents, had kids traveling from hotspots at the very worst time, I can’t say enough how much that thread helped me. I came back one morning to find the thread was closed down arbitrarily (with no explanation since). It completely took me by surprise. I nearly didn’t come back after that.
I think a temporary Covid sub-forum would be a good idea. I also agree with the idea of having the thread restart every month if length is really such a stumbling block. There were many other great ideas given by other posters but I wanted to say that @abasket idea is really good. If you want specific help in a particular area, point us in the direction. I generally choose to respond to people via pm to try to keep my anonymity but if I could easily find topics where I can help or contribute without scrolling through the different forums, I would jump in.
One last thing (I could keep going on but trying to be mindful of this not being my personal blog) As others have done, I will say that the moderation is a bit heavy-handed at times but also understand that moderation is a hard, thankless job, one that I don’t have the patience to do. So, thank you to all the moderators.
This is helpful feedback, @fretfulmother. I think I can address your points and hopefully it will help other people too.
- I'm sorry I used that phrase. One of the other people in the thread said something like that and I was sorta parroting what I heard. I see now that it's hurtful when I say it. It's also not what I meant at all!
Let me try to explain. I recently left a company that I really loved. One of the reasons I left was because some of the people I most respected and enjoyed being with left first. As soon as I put in my notice, I went searching for the alumni group I’d heard about. It’s been fantastic to reconnect with friends and talk about all the things the company is doing wrong. (And, yes, sometimes things they do right too!)
We sometimes joke that “it’s not my problem anymore”. And it isn’t. The company is going on without us. An outsider might learn about our group and ask what the point is. And in a sense they’d be right! It’s pretty much a waste of time, if you are thinking about whether we are accomplishing something for our former company. But that misses the real point of the group: it’s where my friends are!
My sense is that the Parents Cafe is similar with the huge exception that y’all are still very much part of the rest of the site. It may not be the primary mission of the site and I might not personally have a value for the forum (because I’m new here), but that doesn’t mean it doesn’t have value. Which brings me to:
- I was talking with the advertising manager we work with the other day. He'd noticed many of our new initiatives were around students. He said something like "Hey, don't forget about parents. They generate X% of our ad revenue!" So if I shut down the Parents Cafe, I'd probably need to find a new job!
- So I have a strong incentive to **work with the Parents Cafe** to find a solution to our conflict. I'm not sure what makes it seem I'm not open to feedback. Maybe because I really don't like the long threads that many of you really do like. I'm not sure what to say about that except that I'd like to find a way to keep the good parts of those threads without causing headaches for our moderators.
A lot of the feedback I responded to could be summed up as “this shouldn’t be hard to moderate”. I’m pushing back on that because:
[ul]
[] I’m hearing form moderators directly about their difficulties.
[] I’ve had many years of experience moderating internet sites and I can tell you from experience it looks easier than it is.
[li] There are some technical limitations that most users aren’t aware of unless someone who has access to the moderator tools explains it.[/li][/ul]
Just because I disagree doesn’t mean I’m not listening.
I’m still catching up on this thread, but I wanted to stop and post this response before finishing. Hopefully that cleared some things up.
I wasn’t on the original covid post. It got much too long before it caught my interest, and I generally don’t like to write anything remotely resembling, “I haven’t read all these posts, but… (I am about to say the same thing 10 posters already said)”. So I avoided it altogether, and am active on the second covid thread.
However, I DO appreciate strong and active moderation. My Nextdoor boards have turned into a hot mess of name calling, public shaming, etc. It is so depressing coming from people who are supposed to be neighbors - my neighbors! That’s the last thing the country needs right now. It is nice to come to a (relatively) safe place where I can hear details from locales all over. You just can’t get that with the major news services.
And thanks to the mods, who are doing an excellent job!
Hi @CCadmin_Jon
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How does creating COVID sub-forum solve the issue with moderation and mega threads? It doesn’t matter to me one bit where the threads are because it solves nothing.
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You seem to be the only one on this thread so far who has a hard time following the mega covid thread. If it was so hard to follow, it wouldn’t have been mega to begin with. You keep bringing it up as if it’s an issue, did anyone complain the thread was too big? or flag the entire thread because of its size? It took me 3 weeks since the original covid thread started before i jumped in. I just picked up from the last few posts and went with it. There were days I didn’t read it. Thread isn’t like a novel with the beginning and the end, it tends to circle around on the same topics multiple times until the next related topics.
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So what are the points of this thread? To align on the level of moderation and how big the thread should be? (based on the title of your thread).
If so, what are your recommendation for moderation? Many opinions are shared here and i strongly suggest you to consider them. Overall theme: Less moderation, not more. And some kind of clarity on the criteria for what is acceptable and what is not. Right now if seems very arbitrary. There is no rhyme or reason the current covid thread shouldn’t be discussing the effectiveness of masks, sharing links, something you heard from the news, and specifically, we were told not to share anything we feel interesting. Sometimes I feel like I can’t even breathe on that thread.
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As far as the priority of this website, no one said otherwise or tried to change the priority. Covid threads/parent cafe doesn’t change the original purpose of this site which is for college related questions. If anything having more people around will make the site thrive. So I am not sure why the priority was even brought up.
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We need to put some criteria about what it means by “no politics”.
Is sharing grievance of certain political figures (past and current) forbidden?
Is criticizing the political person/policy NOT okay but defending the same said person/policy is okay?
Note I am not suggesting either way, but some clear criteria would be appreciated
I completely agreed with no personal attack, personal insult for people’s belief
- Lastly, there should be repercussion for people who like to complain a lot just because they don’t like what was posted. Because every time they report someone, it takes time and energy from everyone else. It’s like in soccer, players faking injuries and flopping in the box could get a red card.
Spot on in my opinion.
I’m in the minority, but I did not participate in the “big” COVID thread, although I appreciate the work DosChicos did with the updates. I found the thread overwhelming and too political. I like that CC does not permit politics, and felt that the thread allowed constant criticism of the current administration but any posts countering that were deleted. That was my observation during my brief checks on the thread. I get enough politics on other social media and want to avoid it on CC.
I realize that thread had value to many people who might not get as much information on the COVID situation as I do through my job, but I understand how the moderating got to be too much. When a thread is that long, it means it is moving very fast and the moderators can’t keep up without sitting there all day long reading it.
I find the “What are you observing” thread more useful to ME, but others differ, and it certainly does move away from the rules that were imposed to keep it less burdensome on the moderators.
I think when people are listening it feels like they take into consideration the suggestions the group they are listening to make. In this case you got a good range of suggestions for us to be able to continue to have threads about Covid 19. it seems pretty near universal among posters that we would like these threads to continue.
I think that what asst prof posted is right. The moderators are having trouble because they are moderating some things that don’t need moderation and so changing what gets moderated to things that really should be moderated (and that I think most everyone would agree should be) and eliminating moderating for sticking very strictly to a topic, and tiny little details and allowing discussion more opening in those threads would make the job of moderating easier. None of us seem to be asking for moderation to go away. I have been on unmoderated boards and it can be very harsh, even among people who are friends. But moderation to the point people are losing interest in posting here isn’t good for the board.
Also, I would bet that the parents don’t just generate whatever % revenue in Parent Cafe but are the reason behind a much higher % because they/we are the ones answering students’ questions. Without that the % revenue would be a lot less.
I think you might reexamine the rules around moderating and see if there could be more flexibility in the threads around Covid 19.
I do think that being a moderator is underappreciated and a lot of work.
I think that having your opinion not seem to change even though many posted good ideas does give the impression your opinion was not open to change in the first place.