@raclut. Vtech Great program again hard admit but it seems like they all are for oos
One great advantage of UIUC is that like 3 years ago they passed something that any AP with a score of 3 and above you get credit for. That could end up being a lot of saved money or at least credits used for electives. As a comparison, Michigan is usually just 4/5 and sometimes they still want you to redo the Calc classes etc.
Also I don’t think the OP said his son didn’t want to do engineering. Just that he wants to enter business with it, which would lead to IOE (Industrial) plus Industrial has like subsets with one being finance.
Keep in mind. Much easier to be a direct admit into engineering then try to transfer later. At Michigan it’s easier to do so then UIUC (just using the different schools as an example. UIUC is an excellent school) ?.
“Alabama offers my son free college, a paid-for MBA (via our 529 that would be freed up) and a huge shot in the arm toward retirement. Is there any objective (not emotional) argument against this being the smartest decision?”
For sure there are a few objective arguments, one is you should find out more where UA grads are placed, because work experience will be the #1 or 2 factor for b-school admissions, outside of academics. I’ve not many any UA undergrads here but of course that doesn’t mean they don’t exist here, but I’ve met many undergrads from big-10 universities that got their MBAs from Harvard, Kellogg, MIT, Ross among others. And you have to assume if they got into those school, they got into many other top b-schools.
Thanks all. To be clear, the engineering to business idea is my son’s idea not mine (although I support it). He is so outgoing and social that he is intrigued by the Alabama option. We plan to visit it along with many others. Also agree about ensuring a good fit culturally. We will need to test this theory through a visit but with 60% of the school from OOS and >40% with ACTs over 30 (both facts posted on their website) I’m hoping the school has an academic and national feel to it. Those two statistics are actually two big reasons we’re considering Alabama at all. A free ride wouldn’t have as much appeal if he was one of the few high academic kids on campus. Doing the math, there are more than 13,000 kids with 30s or higher on their ACTs. I have to believe that rivals the traditionally “good” state schools like Michigan & UCLA (assumption). I’m hoping this translates into a critical mass of smart kids who can make the environment feel more academically oriented than most people’s (or at least my) initial perception of Alabama. Regardless, we plan to visit more than a dozen schools and I like that we now have a very broad diversity of options. Ultimately we’ll let my son decide what fits best for him. But to pay $13K/year (room & board) while having 13,000 smart classmates, I’m cautiously optimistic that Alabama will pleasantly surprise us. If not, we’ll have plenty of other options. Thanks again! If of interest, I can post a follow up in a few months with our experiences with all of our tours.
@121IllinoisDad isn’t your son graduating in 2020? How will you see a dozen schools before 11/1 when maybe early apps are due? Summer visits are ok but not for ED just FYI. I don’t think you’re considering anywhere ED at this point but, still, getting to so many schools will be hard, no?
@12illonoisDad I think you probably need to recalculate your numbers. A 34 ACT gets you $26K per year for the upcoming year at AL for oos. The direct costs tuition, fees, r&b are $44.7K per year oos. So it won’t be a full tuition scholarship unless he gets a 36 or a 1600 at AL. COA would be $18-19K without books, transportation, etc.
My D19 came in cheaper at Miami(OH). Not trying to rain on your parade but I was in your shoes last year at this time.
@Homerdad, we’ve already visited six schools (most of Big Ten plus Wash U). We have two summer visits to Purdue and Georgia Tech and then three more in September.
@homerdog… Ha… We took my daughter on an intense East coast tour 4 years ago . Trust me it can be done ?. There were some two-fers thrown in there… Lol…
@121IllinoisDad… Head stop spinning yet? Lol . You will be an expert soon enough…
So what you just said was why my son chose Michigan. More high stats kids and he wanted that and more intellectual curiosity. He wanted to be challenged. Alabama is “trying” and succeeding to get high stat kids but it will take years to culturally get some gains. We felt some schools general population was not “up to par” if he had a choice. Please don’t take this as elitist. This was an important factor to him. He wanted to be with kids that were very smart (all our kids are very smart) and intellectual in every school on campus not just a few. Fit and feel is important “if” you have a choice. Trust me I would love to not be cutting the checks we do right now.
Also keep in mind travel. It all sounds great until you “have” to do it. My daughter is 1.5 hours away and son 4.5 hours away. Both very manageable to get to. I drive to go to some games and visit him and we can go to a Saturday farmers market once in while with my daughter and take her to lunch then come home. There is a lot to be said for that.
If she ended up on the East Coast and him on the West Coast
It would of been fun for like the first visit. ?.
Set a budget upfront (you seem all over the place about what you want to spend on undergraduate), communicate it to your son. Consider younger siblings if there are any, in terms of precedent you are sending with your son. No need to visit schools you are not prepared to pay for as a full pay parent (don’t fall into the “dream school” trap).
From what you have described, he wants a big school, big sports school. Illinois ,Michigan, Purdue, Alabama sound like they could be good fits. Illinois sounds like a great option. Many/most kids go to their instate schools . As others have said, you can make this as easy or complicated as you/he want it to be .
@Knowsstuff I hear you. I begged my son to just consider Alabama and he wouldn’t hear of it. He also could have gotten the 26k automatic merit.
@Knowsstuff makes a good point. We didn’t make S19 consider travel to and from school. He hasn’t even left for freshman year yet and I’m feeling like it’s going to be a pain with no direct flights on Southwest. I knew Thanksgiving flights were expensive but not as expensive as they ended up . (Yes, I made them over a month ago and that was probably too late.) It’s making me re-think where D21 should be looking.
Also, I get that you don’t have a “budget” because you can spend up to the max but it’s going to be very hard to compare any school (say Michigan) with a big discount school (Alabama) with something in between (Illinois). How much would he have to love Michigan for $75k per year? How comfortable will he have to be to go to Alabama for that price? How will you figure out value? I’m telling you that will be hard., especially if he applies to all of these schools and you’re staring the price differences in the face. After he’s accepted, how will you decide that what he likes about Michigan is worth X number of dollars more? It’s very difficult to put a price on the differences. I would focus on the other factors to decide where to apply, not money if you can help it.
@Sevmom, the budget is defined, it is just a matter of how it spent. I’m sure its rude to discuss money but I’ll just share because our situation is pretty unique. My wife and I have saved just shy of $150K in our 529. However, about six months ago my father offered $25K/year ($100K total) to each of his grandchildren who finishes a year of college with >3.0. My dad’s offer is his way of willing away his assets while he’s still around to enjoy seeing their benefit (and also helping my sister who has two great kids but little saved). Its my dad’s offer that makes all of this a real wildcard because a much more expensive school wouldn’t actually come out of my pocket. I’ve told my son that this is his money to manage as he feels most appropriate. I personally feel it would be foolish to spend all that money on an undergrad degree (especially with UIUC being instate and this Alabama wildcard). I’m also a saver so I think he’d be a fool not to put grandpa’s money into an IRA. But ultimately I want that to be his decision. But that is why our budget is all over the map. Without my dad jumping in with his offer, I think we’d have a much more restricted list.
Good point and you’re right it’s not a full ride. Here is the math:
Alabama OOS Tuition: $30,250
- Presidential scholarship: ($26,000)
- Engineering School scholarship ($2,500) https://eng.ua.edu/admissions/scholarships/
Net: $1,750/year
Not quite a full ride and maybe UIUC is worth the premium but I just like the options. Also, missing out on NMF (he scored a 1420 but needed a 1480) makes the math less attractive (would have had free room & board) but Alabama is still a wildcard that I think is worth taking a look at.
Three days ago I was panicking that I didn’t know what I was doing (which I didn’t and probably still don’t). But I at least see a whole range of options now both academically and financially. Even if its not his top choice, Alabama will turn into an intriguing safety school.
“How will you figure out value? I’m telling you that will be hard., especially if he applies to all of these schools and you’re staring the price differences in the face. After he’s accepted, how will you decide that what he likes about Michigan is worth X number of dollars more? It’s very difficult to put a price on the differences.”
This is a strange way of looking at it. Why is it the parent’s decision? Give the kid his 529 (i.e. allow him to keep anything left over) and grandpa’s money and let him choose. If parents keep control over the purse strings and use that to dictate the decision then that’s not a great precedent for your relationship with him as an adult.
@121IllinoisDad ok but I think you should make sure you and your son are on the same page before applying places. You don’t want to find yourself at odds in April with you thinking he liked Alabama well enough and him saying he’s now most interested in Michigan. Believe me. We were there. At that point, if you’ve let him apply to more expensive schools, it’s not right to limit him. Since you know the merit from Alabama up front, you can make these decisions on what is the best school for him before even applying. You don’t have to wait and hear back from the schools for financial aid packages. Your son could go along with the Alabama idea at first, saying he likes it well enough and could see himself there. And like Michigan too and want to apply. If he gets in, how will he then convince you if he wants to go to Michigan? Will you be able to leave it up to him? I mean, these kids are just 17 or 18. Just something to ponder.
Your dad’s offer is amazing…What if something happens to your dad before your DS finishes school? Are there provisions for carrying out that wish after his death? I really hate to bring it up, but I work on estate probate and am thinking it might be prudent to count grandpa’s money as icing on the cake if it comes, rather than essential for paying the bill.
@Twoin18 I guess we will just have to agree to disagree. I don’t think 17 and 18 year olds understand what $150,000 is. And they most likely don’t know how going to one school over another will affect them for the rest of their lives. Money issues are sensitive and private I guess. In our case, full priced college will be closer to $300k. I wouldn’t be comfortable telling either of our kids - here’s a third of a million dollars and you decide how you’d like to use it.
@Twoin18 , this is definitely my son’s decision and both the 529 and my dad’s offer will be his to spend as he sees fit. That being said, when we get down to building a spreadsheet to Ben Franklin this, one of the columns will be “Value of grandpa’s money at age 60”. If he goes to Michigan, it will be $0. If he goes to UIUC or another more affordable school, he will be a multi-millionaire (without investing another penny). My son went into this process not really caring or understanding the financial side of this. I want him to understand that this is HIS money.
@homerdog, I hear you 100%.
@12illinoisdad
I missed the engineering scholarship. It didn’t apply in our case.
One thing to also warn you about is eventually fatigue will set in for your D20 if he is going down the merit path. Chasing merit comes with extra essays for some schools just on the application. Then sometimes you are asked to compete in for a scholarship and that comes with more essays and maybe an interview. Time begins to fly by so fast. There are a million deadlines to keep track of. Plus the kids are still in school and playing a sport or working. Plus there are visits during the school year.
Since money is not a huge factor I would ask your son to focus a list at about 6-8 schools. My D19 applied to 17 schools. Some apps were simple, but some took plenty of time. Her heart wasn’t in it at the end. Just make sure you got 1-3 schools on the list that he is willing to go and will for sure get in.
At the end of the day it is a personal decision for the parents and student. Do what works best for both.
A better apples-to-apples comparison would be to include room and board, books, travel, and whatever other expenses in the cost of college for comparison purposes. (Note: if any college is a commute-from-home situation, be sure to include live-at-home costs like food and utilities as well as commuting costs for that college for this comparison.)
https://financialaid.ua.edu/cost/ says that Alabama’s list price for out-of-state is $44,686 in billed costs (tuition, fees, room, board), $51,236 including books, transportation, and misc. costs. Subtract any scholarships to get the net price.