parents calling colleges.....

Parents Forum
21

<p>Soozievt,
This is the post from the JMU board:</p>

<p>Shoe In? </p>

<hr>

<p>"Dont be so sure about that- continue to do well next year- my D is sophmore at JMU now- she was top 6% of public high class- instate- 1420 SAT lots of AP with 3.8GPA and waitlisted- but she did get in after her medling mom called admissions and they agreed there had to be an error! (althought I dont think she liked it that I called) Good luck! rising Junior now"</p>

<p>BTW, I do think that the student should be the one to call a college. Just my opinion.</p>

22

<p>Well, maybe in the case of teh JMU example, if the student had called, she would have gotten in with MONEY! </p>

<p>Regardless, I think the student should always call. In four years the only time I have ever called the college is to ask the financial aid office a question (once we really goofed up very badly on the FAFSA), or if I couldn't figure out a bill.</p>

23

<p>NortheastMom, thanks for sharing that story. I do find it highly unusual and I am sure it is not the norm to have an adrep say we made a mistake and then admit the student. I think it is great for this particular kid and it is a shame that some error was found (and look at this year's students who had errors made by the College Board on their SAT scores!). But by and large, a parent's inquiry after an admissions decision is rendered does not serve a useful purpose unless a student is shut out of all colleges and needs information as to what is lacking in order to make some changes on the next go around. But that doesn't seem why hordes of these parents seem to be calling. It appears to be to complain. Not sure the value in that. Also, one should not expect to get into any college unless a super duper safety and therefore, a denial may disappoint but should have been viewed as a very possible outcome. I know we saw the applications as possibly resulting in denials. I've read about people here complaining when their child (granted a top student) did not get into Yale. What did they think would happen? My child KNEW that Yale would turn away about 90% of the applicants and that clearly more than 10% were "worthy" of being admitted. Did she take it personal to not get admitted? Nope. Did she expect to be admitted? Not necessarily...she could hope but she was realistic about the odds even if she knew she was a reasonable and strong candidate. I don't need to know why she didn't get in. We KNEW she might not get in. I could say that at just about every school but her safeties and even then there are no guarantees unless the school accepts just about every applicant. I know that on the Musical Theater Forum, where applicants are applying to BFA programs which have lower admit rates than the Ivy League, there were a couple of parents of students who applied to ONLY ONE BFA program. When the child wasn't admitted to the BFA (but was admitted to the university at large), they were upset and downtrodden and I could have told them ahead of time that the odds they put their child in were minute. Even though my child had a successful admissions outcome, she applied/auditioned for 8 BFA programs. Had she applied to only one and had it been the school that denied her or the school that waitlisted her, she could be in the same boat. But she had five top program acceptances to pick from in the end. These parents were in a lot of contact with those colleges that did not admit their children to the highly selective BFA. I'm not sure what they were thinking.</p>

24

<p>"Clearly the stats posted indicated that this student was well above average for the school. When mom brought this to the admissions counselor's attention and wanted an explanation, they did apparently admit an error, and this student was accepted."</p>

<p>I can imagine this occurring at a public or private u that did admissions basically by stats. There are some public univesities that if your stats are high enough that you're an ***<strong><em>, you know that when you apply. When older S applied to U Minn. several years ago, he knew he was an *</em></strong>** because his SAT/gpa met their criteria for that.</p>

<p>There also are some private colleges that even guarantee scholarships based on one's gpa/SAT. </p>

<p>So, if a student was that kind of ********* and didn't get in, I doubt that it would hurt their chances if their parent called. The stats, not other things, would be the deciding factor.</p>

<p>Where I think having a parent call would hurt would be at the country's most competitive private universities that have an overabundance of qualified applicants and value independence and maturity highly. I know that my regional admissions officer for Harvard has told me very clearly that they don't talk to parents about application questions, but will talk to students. (I imagine that when it comes to questions about financial aid, however, things are different because in many families, parents don't share their income info with their kids.)</p>

25

<p>It's funny, just read Newsweek's article on "helicopter parents" and how we try to fix everything for our kids. I would not consider calling a professor or any other college employee for that matter unless my child's life were at stake. I feel that my young adults must deal with life at school on their own. I took the short quiz that Newsweek offered to find out if I was a "helicopter parent" and I was relieved to find out that I am not. I would look at this as part of their learning experience and let them handle it their way.</p>

26

<p>
[QUOTE]
The idea to do that would NEVER occur to me! I was amazed and naive. I can't imagine doing that. First of all, what does it matter after the decision is rendered. Also, going INTO the admissions process, we knew it was a strong possibility to not be accepted at selective schools so if it didn't happen, it may be disappointing but clearly in the realm of expectations

[/QUOTE]
My parents instilled the same idea in me. We knew admission wasn't a pure meritocracy and that if I wasn't admitted, it wasn't because there was something wrong with me, it was because I didn't fit what the school was looking for that year.</p>

<p>When I worked at a private, highly selective school, we took no calls about decisions. Now, we have four deans "on call" each day for a few weeks following our notificiation date.<br>

[QUOTE]
these "helicopter parents," as they are known in the admissions office, are ridiculed by the adcom, and only give the adcom further reason to deny their child.

[/QUOTE]
I might not look forward to taking calls from certain people, but I would never penalize the student for having a pushy parent.</p>

27

<p>mini edit:</p>

<br>


<br>

28

<p>Rorosen...now THAT is funny....a skywriting plane parent!</p>

29

<p>I think you need to distinguish between public/private colleges when it comes to pointing out a mistake, because public colleges are often required to accept in-state students who meet certain criteria. That's why it might have worked for the mom to call JMU -- and while I don't think the mom calling could ever make a good impression, if it is a matter of correcting a mistake it probably doesn't matter who calls. (I don't know what JMU admission criteria is, but I am assuming that it's possible that there are certain categories of in-state students guaranteed admission).</p>

30

<p>JMU posts its admissions criteria on their webstite. I have copied and posted it here of anyone who is interested:</p>

<p>"There are six factors which will be used to evaluate applicants for admission to JMU. The order of importance for our decision process is: Program of Study, Academic Achievement, Standardized Test Scores, Secondary School Report Form, Extracurricular Activities, and an optional Personal Statement.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Quality of High School Academics
The Admissions Committee is most interested in the quality of the applicant's high school program of study. Students with solid achievement in four or more academic courses each year of high school will have a distinct advantage in the admission process. Students who challenge themselves with the upper level courses offered in their high school (i.e. Honors-level courses, Advanced Placement classes, etc.) will increase their competitiveness for admission.</p></li>
<li><p>Academic Achievement
To evaluate students' achievement in the high school programs, the Admissions Committee notes the high school grade point average and class rank if reported by the high school. JMU is more interested in how a prospective student performs over the four year high school program than the results of a standardized test.</p></li>
<li><p>Standardized Tests
Performance on the SAT I or ACT helps the committee discern applicants' past academic achievement and their potential for future academic achievement.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>JMU accepts and recognizes both the SAT and ACT, we ask that you send all of your scores. When reviewing test scores we use the highest individual verbal and highest individual math scores from the SAT. For the ACT we use your single highest composite score.</p>

<p>JMU requires an official score report to complete your application. Official results include a photocopy or fax of your official scores received at your home address, scores reported to JMU from your high school, or scores sent directly to JMU from the testing agency. Results printed from CollegeBoard.com are not official and will not be accepted.</p>

<p>The new SAT will be used starting with the freshman applicants for Fall 2006. Students graduating in 2006 or 2007 will have the option of submitting scores from either the new or old versions of the SAT. JMU's application review process will only consider the mathematics and critical thinking sections of the new SAT. If an applicant submits scores from the old and the new SAT, JMU will use the highest verbal and highest math score. The College Board has confirmed that scores from the new version will be comparable to the existing math and verbal sections. This will allow consistency in the review of all candidates.</p>

<ol>
<li>Secondary School Report and Recommendation
This form is located in the application and must be given to the high school guidance office. This is where the Admissions Committee will learn if the applicant chose the most demanding program of courses, an average program of courses, etc. They also tell us how competitive the high school class is by sharing with us how many students intend to go on to a four year college next year. They will rate the applicant in some areas such as academic potential, motivation, and leadership skills.</li>
</ol>

<p>Please ask only one person to send a recommendation letter. You may ask for this letter from an academic teacher or your guidance counselor. We cannot read additional letters, so please be sure to ask for only one. The letter and the secondary school report are not the same thing--always give the secondary school report to your counselor, even if you ask a teacher to write you a letter.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>Extracurricular Activities
We are looking for quality involvement rather than quantity of involvement. We like to see the type of involvement students have in particular clubs and/or organizations rather than just being a member. Please tell us about club, organization and athletic activity. We are also interested in students who have been involved in community service or held part time jobs.</p></li>
<li><p>Personal Statement (Optional)
We do not require a particular topic for the Personal Statement. We allow applicants to decide what the committee still needs to know in order to accurately evaluate their application. Please do not repeat information that can be found in the application. This space is provided to help the committee get to know the applicant better. We encourage students to be creative and have fun with it! Please know that the committee will consider content and grammar as well as spelling. The statement should be about a page but no longer than a page and a half. We don't have a preference in font type or line spacing."</p></li>
</ol>

31

<p>I really don't know about JMU, but I do know of a probable "mistake" made this year for a local California kid. The kid had received the UC equivalent of a likely letter -- an early invitation to attend a reception for "high achieving" applicants at which all attendees were specifically told they would be admitted... followed by a rejection letter from that campus. Now, either the invitation to the reception was a mistake, or the rejection letter was a mistake -- so that is exactly the situation where someone should have made an inquiry. The kid was too shocked and bummed out to do anything, so I can see that as a situation where it would have been appropriate for the mom to make an inquiry. (In that case, it didn't happen because the kid was accepted to at least two other colleges that were higher on her preference list).</p>

<p>Actually - now that I think of it - I did make a call in an almost similar situation. My daughter received an invitation to University Day for NYU prior to the time she heard whether she was accepted, and she wanted to fly out to New York. I didn't want to make plan reservations unless I had assurances that the U-day invite was tantamount to an admission - so I called NYU to verify that-- they wouldn't confirm the admission of course, but they did make it clear that I wouldn't regret having purchased the plane ticket. (kind of a nudge-nudge, wink-wink sort of conversation). I suppose I could have insisted on my daughter making the call, but we've got that 3-hour time difference, my d. was at school, and I wanted to get the reservations for the discount flights while they were still available.</p>

32

<p>calmom, that is a good point. If you are in CA calling out of state, the offices may be closed by the time school is out.</p>

33

<p>Our son made all the calls when he was applying. His hs guidance counselor even let him use his office tele two times because he was not possible for him to be home before 4pm for 2 weeks because of spring musical rehersals. The only thing we did for him was prepare and submit the FAFSA.</p>

<p>IMHO, waitlist calls should definitely be the student's responsibility.</p>

34

<p>"calmom, that is a good point. If you are in CA calling out of state, the offices may be closed by the time school is out"</p>

<p>The California student can get up early to call other parts of the country before going to school.</p>

35

<p>"The kid was too shocked and bummed out to do anything, so I can see that as a situation where it would have been appropriate for the mom to make an inquiry. (In that case, it didn't happen because the kid was accepted to at least two other colleges that were higher on her preference list)."</p>

<p>Trust me: Mistakes will happen that will bum out the kid once he's in college. If he were truly interested in the college that apparently made the above mistake, he, not his mom, would have needed to follow-up.</p>

36

<p>Northstarmom, for a California resident, admission to the UC system for eligible students is a matter of entitlement, not a choice that the system can make. The student may not have choice of campus, but if the student is "eligible", then the student is guaranteed a spot at one of the campuses.</p>

<p>It really doesn't matter who makes the call in a situation where there seems to be a clear mistake -- in the example I gave it was receiving contradictory information mailed from the same campus. There are no interviews, no recommendations, and little to no personal contact between students and administrators. It isn't the same as a waitlist where the parent or kid is questioning a discretionary decision or asking for favors. </p>

<p>I'm the parent of a kid who has flown out three times in the past 9 months to visit east coast colleges on her own, so I'm all for independence. My daughter listed her cell phone number as the contact phone on all her apps and arranges everything on her own, including medical and dental appointments. So I'm all for independence: but not all kids are like that. I'm sure that my daughter's independence and self-reliance impressed the admission committees at the top-ranked colleges that admitted my daughter.... but that doesn't mean that every teenager in California who wants to attend our public universities needs to be held to the same standard. </p>

<p>There's a point when you carry a "should" too far. Some kids need more help than others. I would agree with you that a kid who aspires to admission at an elite college ought to be above-the-norm in terms of maturity... but I am not going to carry that so far as to impose that on every kid who is trying to get into their in-state university. If a bright kid is too shy or self-conscious to make the call, then I think that it's better for a parent to make the call than the call not to be made at all. When I started college, there were a few kids in my dorm who were very shy and had always had their parents do things for them -- it was a tough adjustment and they tended to be very homesick, but they grew up and did well in the end; I don't think they would have been better off if their reticence had consigned them to living at home and attending a community college. Some kids do need more of a parental push than others.</p>

37

<p>". If a bright kid is too shy or self-conscious to make the call, then I think that it's better for a parent to make the call than the call not to be made at all. "</p>

<p>Where we disagree is that I think the parent should help the student make the call himself/herself. This could be by role playing, helping the kid blow off steam before the call, etc. Given the fact that wherever the student ends up going, s/he will likely run into situations that are very stressful, the parent's job before college is to help the student learn how to carry on despite those anxieties.</p>

38

<p>Let me jump in here and allow me to say that just because one or both parents call a learning institution for say financial aid and making sure "ALL THE STUFF" from each parent gets into the financial departement of certain institution is by no means a bad reflection for the student.</p>

<p>This is NOT a job interview and most of the students that are graduating from High School are "or" will be turning 18 earth years so, to say the parents stay away from calling is silly.</p>

<p>I would imagine that some parents would be happy not to involve themselves with these matters since at times all this STUFF to input via the Internet "or" paper applications are a real pain in the backside. Therefore, the student should be encouraged to call for themselves in matters that pertain to course selection and housing if it applys "AND" the parents need communication with their tasks!</p>

<p>Silly thread....:(</p>

39

<p>Northstarmom, you have managed to succeed in turning what would have been a 5 minute phone call into hours of anxiety. One of the two communications from the admissions office was clearly a mistake -- it's a simple task for someone to call up and ask what it is. </p>

<p>I have raised two kids to be very independent and self-sufficient, but NOT by making every situation into an object lesson on what they ought to be able to do for themselves. My very independent-minded kids occasionally ask me to do something for them, including tasks that they can do for themselves... and if it is small favor I don't hesitate. It works the same in reverse -- I've often asked the kids to make a call for me. </p>

<p>Among other things I think that I have modeled for my kids is forthrightness and efficiency. I simply wouldn't make a big deal over a phone call to ask a simple question.</p>

40

<p>Calmom,
We weren't talking about your offspring. We were talking about a college bound student who apparently fell to pieces over getting a rejection that seemed to be a mistake. I don't see such behavior as reason for a parent to make a fairly simple call. I do see the behavior as a time for a parent to help their offspring to develop the coping skills to handle a stressful situation.</p>

<p>I don't know if your kids were ever shy or if you were shy, but I was painfully shy, and managed to remain shy for years because my mother would step in when I became a bundle of nerves over situations like I've described. My younger S used to be extremely shy, even shyer than I was as a kid. My way of helping him become more assertive was by helping him take the steps to be assertive. I didn't step in and do things for him when he became anxious. Instead, I gave him support and taught him the skills to handle these kind of situations. Now as a graduating h.s. senior, he's lightyears away from my timidity when I was his age.</p>