Parents can't—or won't—take on children's education debt

Parent Cafe
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<p>This was from USA Today in 2005. </p>

<p>"Undergraduate students borrowed, on average, $19,300 from all sources, up from $12,100 a decade earlier.</p>

<p>And more students, even those from the nation’s wealthiest families, took on debt to pay for college. By 2000, 46% from the top income bracket reported borrowing money to help pay for college. That’s a sharp increase from 1992-1993, when 24% in this bracket borrowed money.</p>

<p>The nation’s poorest students already were borrowing heavily, but more of them took on loan burdens — 72% in 1999-2000, up from 67% in 1992-1993.</p>

<p>And more students borrowed substantially: The percentage borrowing at least $25,000 more than tripled, from 7% to 26%."</p>

<p>[USATODAY.com</a> - College graduates see their debt burden increase](<a href=“http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-03-27-grad-debt_x.htm]USATODAY.com”>http://www.usatoday.com/news/education/2005-03-27-grad-debt_x.htm)</p>

<p>and from another source:
“MILWAUKEE, WI–(HR MARKETER)–March 16, 2007--CollegeGrad.com, the #1 entry level job site, today released its survey results on how long college students anticipate it will take them to pay off their student loans. 51% of student loan recipients say it will take them more than 10 years to pay off their student loans. That’s a 5% increase compared to two years ago.”</p>

<p>[CollegeGrad.com</a> Press - Students Expect 10+ Years of Student Loan Debt](<a href=“http://www.collegegrad.com/press/student-loans.shtml]CollegeGrad.com”>Students in 2007 Expect 10+ Years of Student Loan Debt)</p>

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<p>NSM, Thanks for the data. </p>

<p>Those numbers may be very misleading. Rich families may take on debt because their other investments have a higher return that the 6% student loans. OTOH, I just don’t see how could “nation’s poorest students” even get a $25K loan.</p>

<p>In any case, may be there are a lot more students who took on debts to fund their “dream” school. It could easily cost a middle class family over $100K to get two kids college educated.</p>

<p>I could say this, it is our greatest pleasure to fund my children’s education.</p>

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<p>When I taught at a 2nd/3rd tier public university that had probably the lowest tuition of any public university in my state, I had some students who had taken on as much as $30 k in debt to fund their education at an instate public that wasn’t a flagship. Some even had such high debt despite spending 2 years at community college. </p>

<p>And – believe it or not – where I taught was the dream school of many students. Schools that most CC members wouldn’t even consider as safeties are dream schools for many students. </p>

<p>There also are many families that really can’t afford to help their students with their education or can afford to provide very little help. The students also may not have the scores and grades to get into the private schools that are more generous with financial aid than are most state universities, which with rare exceptions lack the resources to meet 100% of students’ need even when students are in state.</p>

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<p>I’m basically in a situation where my family has a ton of money but not allocated at all towards my education, meaning I have to fend for it. This, in my opinion, is really unfair. When my aid is calculated, they take parental numbers into primary account, meaning that I have to fend an amount that was calculated based on assets I don’t have. I can’t afford multiple thousands in cost, but if my parents refuse to pay it, I have no choice.</p>

<p>It’s caused a huge rift. I firmly believe that if you choose to bring a child into this world, you support it. Neither of my parents went to college, and therefore they never saved up any money to be allocated for college. When I confronted them about it, I basically received a huge gauntlet of excuses that basically say “We aren’t getting anything out of it – it’s your school. You fund it.” Meanwhile they’re taking trips to Hawaii and Mexico and having a blast while I’m literally puking from the stress of all the work and class I had to struggle through just to keep up in college. Not even joking there. In my mind, it’s incredibly selfish.</p>

<p>It’s really frustrating when your parents aren’t on your side. I was valedictorian and got into 15 schools, including multiple Ivies. I paid for my own food, my own clothes, my own tests, studied alone… I did so much of it myself because my parents just didn’t give a rip. I figured that at the very least, they’d help with the college costs. Nada. </p>

<p>Despite what people say, having to pay for your own college can actually make things worse. When I have to spend so much time working to earn money to basically survive on a daily basis (let alone fend tuition costs), it’s stressful and it takes a huge toll on the academics. I was basically working 35 hours a week during the schoolyear to earn money, and it was just too much for me. I harbor quite a bit of resentment as a result, because I have the potential to be a much better student, but there are just so many things to take care of.</p>

<p>A lot of students don’t realize how much easier their lives are in college as a result of having a support base from their own families. Constantly I see parents helping our their kids by wiring them money here and there so they can eat/buy clothes/etc. Fending for yourself is NOT fun. </p>

<p>When I have kids, I’m not putting them through this. </p>

<p>To any parents reading this: Help out with your kid’s education. Making them do it all by themselves is intensely stressful. If you choose to raise a child, I think it’s more than fair to state that you should support it, especially when it comes to something like college. A lot of people don’t realize that it’s an investment in something great. But making someone try to invest in themselves without any “startup capital” and a lot of work? It’s just too hard.</p>

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<p>LegendofMax…
I know that you struggle with this challenge. I admire how you are managing and I know it will pay off in the long run. It sure is not easy. I’m glad you are doing it though. I’m sorry that your parents are not a source of financial support. I am guessing that some of this is due to their not having attended college themselves. You will be stronger for this challenge that many students have not had to face in the same way that you are. But you’ll do it. And you’ll know what you want to do for your own kids. I’m sure your parents are very proud of you (and you sound quite accomplished) but their values are different than some other parents. It’s hard for you but you can do it. It will be worth it in the long run. Life is full of challenges and you’ve been handed this one. Keep running with it and you’re going to reach your goals.</p>

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<p>Wow, LegendofMax I went through the same thing, supporting myself through college, though I just attended an average college. I agree it is very stressful. Kudos to you. </p>

<p>soozievt is right , the hard work and discipline you have will see you through whatever life has to throw at you. My brothers and sis had a much easier time as my parents paid for them all, but I am the most successful.</p>

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<p>One of my current teachers said that her father had the money but because he didn’t go to college he considered it unneeded. She therefore worked 1 full time job and two part-time jobs at the same time to pay to go to Duke, even during the school year. She says she’s not sure how she did it.
My parents have saved nothing for college, and don’t have much left over after everything’s paid for. Currently the only money saved toward college is the money I’ve saved for allowance… I’ve looked for a job, but no one will hire me for my age.</p>

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<p>My dad didn’t go to college (musician/actor) and my mom went for a year and either failed out or left (I’ve heard various stories and she won’t confirm, haha), and although both of them consider a college education absolutely necessary, they are not helping to pay for a bit of it. Unfortunately I fell in love with a private school, where tuition is rising to upwards of 50,000 for this next school year. I feel that in situations where parents are not helping the student pay for school, the parents need to be extremely clear about just how much debt their child will be in. At 17 I was not knowledgeable enough to make this big of a decision about my financial future, and if I could go back and change it I certainly would. Although I love my school, I have had more than one breakdown from all of the stress of how I am going to pay off all of my debt, and I have shamelessly begged for more money from the financial aid office. On top of this, I came to the school as a recruit for the soccer team and I am a musical theater major, so I really don’t have time to work (I still DO work at least 10 hours a week though) and I end up completely stressed all the time. So parents, do your kids a favor: either help them out with the costs or really stress to them how big a decision they are making. They will thank you in the future.</p>

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<p>I think what makes this story newsworthy is that in just one generation, it has become impractical for a student to fund his/her own education without major debt load. College costs have grown so much more quickly than the base inflation rate (and wages) that it is virtually impossible to work your way through college. (Sure, there are a few exceptions - students with highly marketable skills, light part-time course loads, etc.)</p>

<p>In the past, middle-class parents were more readily able to afford college. When parents couldn’t pay the whole tab, students could pick up the slack with part-time and summer employment. Even if a student decided to borrow heavily for tuition, racking up loans that exceeded a year’s salary for a new grad would have been almost impossible. Today, we hear tales of six-figure loan loads and new grads being lucky to land low five-figure jobs.</p>

<p>If you extrapolate another decade or two, we’ll clearly be in an even bigger crisis. A few of the most elite schools have begun to address middle-class affordability by eliminating loans, but most schools don’t have the resources to do this. Colleges are going to have to get serious about cost containment, faculty productivity, and making some amenities a-la-carte.</p>

<p>The combination of easy loans and the ability to “price discriminate” by offering more aid to lower-income families has let most colleges and universities thrive in the face of gigantic price increases. It’s not dissimilar to health care, where third-party funding (insurance) made big annual cost jumps palatable for a while. These situations are never sustainable forever.</p>

<p>“where I taught was the dream school of many students. Schools that most CC members wouldn’t even consider as safeties are dream schools for many students” - that’s a great point that bears repetition, Northstarmom. And unfortunately, many of these schools are seeing the same cost increases as elite colleges.</p>

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<p>Roger, Great post. Great summary. I agree.</p>

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<p>My parents initially didn’t want to pay for my college. But after endless sessions of arguments, I eventually got them to agree. Parents are more malleable than some may think. You just got to come up with some convincing arguments which somehow implicitly conveys their irresponsibility and explicitly conveys your inability to pay. Its not like they’re rocks you know.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately it’s not always that easy, student14x</p>

<p>It got to a point where I was literally showing financial figures and data to my parents to prove a point to them and they literally walked out of the room because they weren’t interested in seeing it. Even when filling out the FAFSA, they made it impossible to get any numbers out of them, so I’d have to do all that myself too. When it came to college expenses, at length I’d describe the finances involved, how much debt would be involved as a result of assets and income, etc, but sometimes parents just don’t care. There are probably a lot more parents out there like this.</p>

<p>A lot of parents can be really irresponsible and selfish. No matter what argument I threw at my mother and father, it always came down to the same response: “What do we get out of it? Look at us – we didn’t go to college and we’re doing just fine. You want college? Figure it out yourself!”</p>

<p>The problem is that parents don’t understand how different times are. It’s so much harder to get by without a college degree. A lot of places won’t even consider interviewing you otherwise. Working your way up to a 100k+ annual-salary job without a college degree is almost superhuman in these times.</p>

<p>It’s frustrating when I talk with the financial aid officers here at Penn and then talk to my family, because when I explain something, it’s always the same reply: “Oh that can’t be right,” even if I’ve just acquired the information firsthand.</p>

<p>Anyways, I’ve ranted enough. I’m an extremely bitter person as a result of all this. But my point is that not all parents are reasonable, and not all of them put a high priority on education. This is especially bad if they are well off financially and don’t wish to help out. It’s the worst combination because all the work falls on your shoulders, and you wind up alone in the process.</p>

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<p>Dad II wrote: “Those numbers may be very misleading. Rich families may take on debt because their other investments have a higher return that the 6% student loans. OTOH, I just don’t see how could “nation’s poorest students” even get a $25K loan.”</p>

<p>The nations poorest students get federally subsidized loans, and if they max those out, they are already at 23K in loans (I actually think that just increased, but I’m not sure by how much). </p>

<p>In New Hampshire, the AVERAGE student graduates with that much debt. Which means some have far less, but some have far more. Of course, NH is also dead last in state funding for post-secondary education…</p>

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<p>jude_36. I was under the impression that 25K loan was for one single year. I think it may not be too big a deal for someone to have only $25K total debt for 4 years of college education.</p>

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<p>@Legend of Max</p>

<p>Yeah, I’m sort of in a similar situation, except my parents just can’t pay for college-they have too much debt. I think it’s equally irresponsible when a parent racks up debt knowing that they have children, and that those children will eventually have to go to college. Because of their debt, I’m gonna graduate with 60,000+ in loans. I’m just really disgusted with them that they created such a huge debt and saved nothing, screwing over their kids. Really, I don’t know what’s worse… having parents that won’t pay for college or having parents that just can’t.</p>

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<p>Unfortunately, for most middle-class families, the commitment to pay for college needs to be made before the student gets to kindergarten. A modest savings program that starts 17 years earlier can put a good dent in college costs. Only a small percentage of families are able to pay for college from current income and available savings. The reality is that way too many families start thinking about paying for college at the last minute, and are shocked by their EFC.</p>

<p>I’m glad things seem to be working out for you, student14x.</p>

<p>As others have noted, different families have different philosophies - some believe that getting their kids the best possible education is a major life goal, more important than vacations, new cars, etc. (I tend to fall into that category.) Others don’t. It’s hardly child abuse to decline to pay tens of thousands of dollars for college. On the other hand, at least some of these parents really do care about their kids but don’t understand the realities of today’s college costs.</p>

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<p>Being from a low-income family, my parents simply just CAN’T pay for my education. Ofcourse, I do qualify for a lot more in grant aid and low interest and/or government loans as well. But I’m still looking at 30k+ in loans at the end of my undergrad… and if I go for a masters after that, it will be a lot higher.</p>

<p>So yes, I have to pay my own way through college, mostly through work-study and summer jobs. But, like someone pointed out, the amount of money a student can earn really doesn’t even make a dent on 30k of loans… but it is something.</p>

<p>And although that article claims that more students are paying through college, most of the people I know at my college are blissfully unaware of what it means to have to worry about how much it costs to go to college… their parents take care of everything, from tuition all the way down to “pocket money.” Not as many students as I expected have jobs. That explains how so many students can even think of majoring in something like english, or history (without any intention of going to law school)… I wish I could do that, but I have to consider the “return of investment.”</p>

<p>At the same time I feel for those people whose parents refuse to pay for their education… even when they can. The problem I see with that is that it is a double handicap. If your parents don’t make enough to be able to pay then you would get significant financial aid from many schools… but you’re just plain out of luck if you have rich parents who don’t want to pay. Thats really quite unfair because its THEIR fault that YOU can’t get enough fin. aid.</p>

<p>And finally, I think there is something wrong with the educational system if anybody that doesn’t have wealthy parents (that are willing to pay) has to take on debt to be able to go to college… I think the constitution needs a new clause: “a right to cheap education.” Most other modern 1st world countries have it… heck, even Canada has a much better educational system than ours. In some ways the situation here is even worse than that of some third world countries!</p>

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<p>It will be up to you to break the cycle…start saving for your kids’ college as soon as they are born–or even before. It’s not an easy thing, it may take sacrifice in your quality of daily life, but your kids will benefit.</p>

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<p>Ah, but paying for your children to be well educated and actually having available well educated children when old aren’t really related.</p>

<p>You could have well educated loving children quite active in your life without having paid for their education.</p>

<p>You could have paid $200K+ for their education, and then when you are old find:
a) the children are too busy with their own lives (health issues, children’s health issues, careers, etc) to help you.
b) find the children are estranged.
c) find you have outlived your children.</p>

<p>Buying children a wonderful education, much like most of the sacrifices you make for your children, is no guarantee you will get anything out of it.</p>

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<p>I, to some extent, feel somewhat bad for the kids whose parents are wealthy but yet decide not to contribute to their childs education. But on the other hand, college really isn’t that expensive if you just go to a community college, then later transfer to a public school.</p>

<p>CC: 3,000 (2) = 6,000 Public: 20,000 (2) = 40,000 –> Grand Total: 46,000</p>

<p>46,000 - 5 years of work at 5,000 a year = ~20,000 Debt</p>

<p>Of course, for me, the public school I’ll probably transfer into is a really good school (UT) and for some kids that live in say Wyoming, Montana, South Dakota, etc… they kinda get screwed over in that there aren’t any quality publics in their state, but there are still some quality publics that are reasonably priced (-25k) for out-of-staters, like Arizona, Minnesota and Florida. (<–they were just the first to come to mind)</p>

<p>I guess the thing I don’t understand is why a kid whose parents aren’t supporting them would go to a college that costs like 15k, 20k, 30k or whatever and have the nerve to complain about their huge debt when they could’ve very easily lessened the amount of their debt by just going to a CC.</p>