<p>How to move her in? My friend took her Mom out to lunch with friend and sister, in the meantime their sons & DHs moved all Mom’s stuff to AL, after lunch they took her to the AL. Mom was MAD, she called a lot, but then, in time, she accepted it.</p>
<p>This is like having your two year old pitch a tantrum in public, sometimes you do what it right even though it hurts.</p>
<p>I like that, somemom! </p>
<p>With Dad, we just went ahead with the planning even though he protested every step of the way. Even when the movers came in, he was still protesting. Then came moving day – the furniture was gone, the bags were packed, the cable and phone were disconnected. He really had no choice, but he kept right on protesting. You’re correct; you do what’s right and close your ears. There’s no point in reasoning with a 2 year old, and sometimes there’s no point in reasoning with our parents. </p>
<p>^^ that reminds me - my mother in law did the same thing. She had friends take father in law to lunch, others came to the house and moved the items he needed and then after lunch instead of bringing him home they brought him to his “new” home. He wasn’t happy either but accepted it. This is what his doctor advised mother in law to do so apparently it is a fairly common approach. Others have had their parents moved straight from the hospital when that was appropriate. I like the line they use when parent asks when they will go home - “when it is safe for you to live there again.” Knowing full well that it will never be safe.</p>
<p>My friend told her parents it was respite. </p>
<p>We packed my parents’ AL stuff up, moved them in with it and then went back to their former residence to sort, distribute, pitch and empty it. Worked very well. They were on board for the move, but if we had had to pack up around them my head would have exploded from the time and effort required to consider everything. </p>
<p>That “home when it is safe” tact s spot on! You can ally yourself with the elder by keeping their needs at the forefront, acknowledging that you both wish this wasn’t needed, but since it is,… </p>
<p>Not to be a spanner, but. . .I moved my mom into a posh Independent Living place after a unit opened up that me all her demands (morning sun, courtyard view, tree, etc.). She had a fall the night before the movers came to her house, and while at IL, she fell in the hallway on the way to her unit and they took her to Emergency to get stitches. While I was out of town with DH because his brother had died, my mom gave notice at the IL place. She is very, very stubborn and decided early on that she would make absolutely no effort to adjust. She got her friend (my age) and her paid handyman/handymen to move her back to her house; I certainly wasn’t going to do so. Of course, her mind continues to deteriorate so the bills that can’t be paid online go overdue so she nearly had her medical insurance discontinued as well as her garbage and of course she won’t let me take over. She wants to be in control of everything (reminds me of a toddler’s “Me do it!!!”) but of course is no longer capable, but I’m sure she could make it through a conservator hearing. 
At this point, I have disengaged from wanting to do what is in her best interests (moving her out of her large house) because I need to do so for my own mental and emotional health. If her next step will be a nursing home because she has chosen to live in unsafe conditions, so be it. Thankfully, her assets far exceed mine so paying for care will not be a problem. I would have thought she would want to spend down now in a posh IL resort so as not to leave me anything, but perhaps I underestimated her desire to leave my brother $$.</p>
<p>Good luck DW! </p>
<p>CCsiteObsessed, that must be heartbreaking to watch. Sometimes you can do everything right, and a stubborn elder can still undermine all your efforts. I’m sorry you are going through this.</p>
<p>Dharma, you might have to wait until after the next stint in hospital or rehab to take advantage of moving her straight to AL instead of pulling her out of her home. You missed your best opportunity with this last stint by setting up home care. Don’t do it again. Right now what you are doing to her is pulling off a band-aid really really really slowly. Rip it off fast or leave it alone. You are torturing her and yourself. She’s not going to move without some strife. She - just - is - not. I could go on - fish or cut bait, pee or get off the pot… You can get us, her therapist, your hairdresser, your dog groomer, or whoever to agree with you. She will not. You have to decide in your heart what should be done and just do it. Pull on those Superwoman big girl pants.</p>
<p>Ccso- sorry to hear of your frustrating efforts. Good to share all possibilities here. Sometimes you can’t keep less desirable scenarios from happening. Hope it helps to know you did your best with it. Knowing one’s limits and taking care of yourself are great attributes. The capacity for this level of challenging caregiving would be finite for most of us. I sometimes take a “vacation” from routine elder care duties myself. </p>
<p>Just as most kids go off to college and thrive despite hesitation or ambivalence, while others will transfer, drop out or encounter different opportunities, we can’t always predict how our elders will do with care transitions. In most cases I have seen, it is worth a try though. </p>
<p>I have an elderly relative who is over 90 and living alone in a huge 3 or more bedroom house on a slope. She also continues to drive and is VERY forgetful. She fell once and had to be hospitalized because she couldn’t get up and couldn’t get to a phone or call for help. My brother had to break into her home to help get her to the hospital!</p>
<p>Her two grown children are older than I and both live in CA; both are empty nesters and financially very comfortable. Her brother in HI is now getting increasingly concerned, as he visits her and she is increasingly forgetful, as to whether she has taken her medication and other important things. When she runs out of food, either she won’t eat or drives down a very steep road to the store or restaurant to get food. She forgets engagements regularly.</p>
<p>Her grown children know she has a terrible memory and have had fleeting visits with her (like a few days total in years) since her hospitalization. She had a car accident on Friday and the most recent insurance paper she could find was from 2011! She took her car to a body shop and they told her she had to wait until the insurance was contacted. She insists she only wants to live alone in her home. Her brother has called her son and hopefully he will step in and help figure out the best course for his mother. We believe the son will call his sister as well.</p>
<p>After her hospitalization initially, someone was hired to come in for 2 hours/day plus she was given an emergency alert device that would trigger if she fell or pressed it. I believe she fired the person who was coming in as “not needed.” Her situation sounds a lot like many on this thread. </p>
<p>Ugh, HImom.</p>
<p>They’re not going to give her the car back, are they???</p>
<p>I surely hope not, but I’m trying not to intervene as things are rather “touchy” already and I prefer not to interfere where I’m not wanted. It IS scary and her brother is insisting she can’t live at home alone any more. I’m HOPING that part of her moving is having others drive her. She insists she doesn’t drive at night, but yet she DOES when she “runs out of food.” It’s troubling to me that her adult kids are doing NOTHING and expecting others to resolve all of this for their mom. </p>
<p><a href=“http://www.elderlyaffairs.com/Portals/_AgencySite/docs/apsmandatedreporterguidelines.pdf”>http://www.elderlyaffairs.com/Portals/_AgencySite/docs/apsmandatedreporterguidelines.pdf</a>
<a href=“Social Services | Adult Protective and Community Services Branch”>http://humanservices.hawaii.gov/ssd/home/adult-services/</a></p>
<p>Does she qualify as being neglected? Can you report?</p>
<p>HI mom, it is very troubling what you write about your neighbor and very sad. I hope by some miracle her situation improves, and soon. You are a lawyer, and the best judge about whether to contact social services authorities, and jym provided in the links. Certainly you know best, but I believe you can do this anonymously.</p>
<p>CCste Obsessed, I can easily imagine the stress you went through with your mother’s emergencies and recalcitrant behavior. Best to you - I hope things are more settled now.</p>
<p>LF and travelnut, not only were your posts wise and useful (as Lasma pointed out!) but they were so elegantly written, it was like a consolation to read them. What a pleasure.</p>
<p>Reporting on yesterday’s visit to the second AL in Danbury: The bottom line is, my mother has reversed her “No” and has again agreed to go to an AL. But since she is unpredictable, I have to feel cautious. But certainly things are much better than they were on Friday.</p>
<p>To give her credit, she was ready to go when it was time to go to visit the AL. I had prepared my speech, garnered from the helpful remarks here. She has never heard me speak this way before. I used a friendly voice, and as we were seated in the car, said words to the effect, “Mom, I will again try to make it clear to you that with the new laws affecting caregiver’s wages doubling in January, combined with the costs of living in your house, you have no choice but to enter AL. If you refuse to agree, I am essentially withdrawing from your life. Caregiver can take a taxi to get groceries and to/from train, You can take over the paperwork that accompanies her employment, I will provide no MD rides. If you insist on staying in your house in a situation that is impossible , I will contact the local chapter of Protective Services for the Elderly, they will remove you, and as your Power of Attorney I will settle your estate.” (This last bit was probably stretching it a bit but I said it. Long pause. Without raising her voice she said, “yes, I agree. I will accept Assisted Living.” Then I said, "I spoke to you firmly because I love you, and I want to safeguard your health, your assets, and your happiness, and this is the path to take. She replied, "“I love you too.”</p>
<p>In the interest of brevity, I will skip the visit. The facility in my eyes was wonderful but my mother disparaged it all the way home. Thank you whoever pointed it out here, but my mother has classic Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Some years ago I read as many as a half dozen books devoted to the disorder and she fits the bill in every respect.</p>
<p>When we got home I showed her that I had arranged a driver to take her to the shrink on Wed; that I was opting out. She became hysterical that EVERYONE in our town would know that she sees a PSYCIATRIST and she envisioned the word spreading like wildfire, a fate worse than death (center of the world self-image). I said, if you give me your unequivocal word, your solemn promise that you will enter AL, I will take you on Wed to Dr. G. She said I already said yes! So I am bending, but she is working hard to conform. She also asked me for groceries. I said I would go, but if she did not make a final decision by Sunday night (we see place #3 on Fri) I would, as I said, withdraw.</p>
<p>I know this is getting long again, but I guarantee you will be amazed at the next part. At 5 pm the phone rang. It was her shrink. He had read the letter I mailed on Sat. He said without a doubt he would assert his advice to her to enter Al when he sees her tomorrow and talk to her about the lengths I have been going through for her benefit A word about confidentiality: don’t be worried . I am certain that my mother signed while she was getting care post-suicide attempt that I had privilege to any info about her treatment. But then the amazing thing was, the shrink wanted to TALK. He told me all sorts of things about my mother, her narcissism, her delusions and–get this–he told me how she often talks to him about her hostility toward me and my husband. Now can you imagine, every month to the shrink, I have helped her tippy toe from the house into the car, lugged the walker into the trunk, chatted amicably about my daughters latest involvements, driven 45 minutes, tippy toed her with walker into his office, patiently waited during the visit. And while she is with him, she is criticizing me and my husband. The word he used was “hostile.” </p>
<p>She (and I) are counting on that she will like the place she sees on Fri, which is near home (please God). The shrink said he has several patients there. </p>
<p>Finances are dwindling fast. The housing market here is not good, I know the drawbacks, but the reverse mortgage guy and I had a long talk this morning. She gets $1,500 Social Security a month. In as soon as 12 weeks (after all the work is done) she could be getting, monthly, from the reverse mortgage, $4,000. The reverse mortgage rep said the reverse mortgage, combined with her SS, would give her 4.2 years of rent at the AL. Her cash needs are now so tight that I greatly fear the house not selling and the guide told me yesterday, quite frankly, they have no loan/bridge structure. She would have to go and she would have no place to go. Once again, probably next week, I will have to take my mother to the elder lawyer to discuss the best way to proceed in this dimension. My husband suggested a home equity loan, but they run out, too. </p>
<p>
</p>
<p>We’ve been through this. He is either lying, or he hasn’t priced assisted living.</p>
<p>The house will sell if it is cleaned out and spruced up (hire someone to do this) and priced right.</p>
<p>I have been quiet on this thread, but reading with interest.
Dharma, do your reverse mortgage research without the input of the SALES rep again.
Read this, particularly the last paragraph: <a href=“The Hidden Truths About Reverse Mortgages”>http://www.forbes.com/sites/carolynrosenblatt/2012/07/23/hidden-truths-about-reverse-mortgages/</a>
There is surely a better way.</p>
<p>And some more:
<a href=“http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/on-retirement/2012/12/11/5-reasons-to-avoid-a-reverse-mortgage”>http://money.usnews.com/money/blogs/on-retirement/2012/12/11/5-reasons-to-avoid-a-reverse-mortgage</a></p>
<p><a href=“http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/ylr/reversemortgages.asp”>http://www.ag.state.mn.us/consumer/ylr/reversemortgages.asp</a></p>
<p><a href=“Reverse mortgages backfire on some seniors”>http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2013/06/09/cnbc-reverse-mortgages-backfire/2393431/</a></p>
<p>Remember, that rep wants your business and will give a favorable spin.</p>
<p>Why not get a real estate agent scheduled asap (and I do mean within the next 5-7 days,) to tell you what he/she thinks the house would see for and how quickly? Someone you know is selling homes in your area, (not just listing them.) It’s a start. Keep it simple. “It looks like we need to sell this fast, turn on a dime, as early as next month.” Ask what your net would be, after all fees. I find that facts tend to soothe a worrier- you already know you like facts. If there’s an issue with your mother, call the agent a “friend” or have the aide take her out for coffee before the rep gets there. </p>
<p>Also, didn’t someone say the home must be occupied by her, for RM to stand? The first recent link says so. </p>
<p>Say you could clear $225k. The proceeds from the house are her stash. </p>
<p>I’m skipping my own expenses vs income/assets figures here, but chances that your mother would be cogent in 4-5 years? Depends. In my family, yes. But not able to grasp all complexities or note every iota around her. By the time resources are depleted to a Medicaid level, I think her awareness will be limited enough to work out the next transition. And you have bought back a very important 4-5 years with your own nuclear family.</p>
<p>As for sales reps, they find their openings in our questions. The more we ask, the more they likely see those openings. Like political spin, they can omit pertinent facts. Nothing against them, but it’s the psychology in ‘getting to yes.’ </p>
<p>Also, didn’t someone say the home must be occupied by her, for RM to stand?
I am researching this right this minute.</p>
<p>I am forging ahead with all the reading and thinking. Thanks to all.</p>
<p>RIght you probably want it on the market before winter. Get good outside pics now or in fall (whichever is more attractive)… </p>