<p>My mother has a reverse mortgage, and she’s told me a couple of times that she will lose the house if she’s out of it for more than 3 months. I’ve wondered though who it would be that is out checking occupancy?</p>
<p>^ Yes, and throw in some flowers, if needed. Some curb appeal- when filming in my neighborhood, about the same time of year, they used artificial flowers, ha. </p>
<p>I sent the rep some hard questions based on the Forbes article. And I have an appt on Wed 9/3 with the elder care lawyer. </p>
<p>It’s worthwhile to hire someone competent to get GOOD pictures. Get the outside pictures now, if now is a good attractive season for the house, but wait for the inside pictures until the house is vacant, cleaned out and spruced up. People search online nowadays, and you want the pictures to be fabulous or they’ll just take one look and click to the next house.</p>
<p>DW- Happy to hear all that has transpired. There is a lot of progress going on and you are keeping her on track. It is like walking over quicksand and you kept your neck dry. Great that you now know that her psychiatrist has not been completely snowed by your mother over the years and that he sees her present vulnerabilities and needs. It doesn’t surprise me at all that she continually complains about you and your husband- from where she sits the problems could never be hers (personality disorders often are revealed by this trait). </p>
<p>I’d be focused on making this move to AL asap and putting the house on the market, perhaps with her situated in AL so there is less angst and effort in the clean up/move. Even if a RM would allow her not to be in the house, financially and emotionally it probably makes sense to close every door behind her. Agree with others that this would be the best gift to yourself and your family also, as it would innately put boundaries around her demands. Do stir in which ALs offer what services as you help her decide; the last thing you want is for her to have to move again too soon. The more they can manage, the less is on you and the more stable things will be for your mother. Win/win. Hang in there. </p>
<p>All of the shared ideas and experiences here have been very informative to me. As we navigate elder care, there is no crystal ball as to what the next phase will bring and there is a lot of relevant, pragmatic stuff here from finances to how to talk to someone. I am very grateful. </p>
<p>Make sure your last question at any AL facility is, “Are there any other fees I should be aware of?”
You don’t want any surprises. One place answered that question by telling me about the almost $10/day fee for non-optional incontinence supplies! That’s another $300/ month! You also have to be prepared for facility cost to go up each year as well as costs for medications, personal supplies, etc. It does not stay the same and it certainly does not get cheaper. </p>
<p>I also don’t understand the reasons to keep pursuing the RM. She has the assets for the next year or so and by then you will both probably be mentally ready to sell the house and get the real profits.</p>
<p>In my area, the RE agent takes the photos. A good agent will move a few things around, to make to be the right sort of photogenic to intrigue buyers. No ratty recliner, piles of trinkets on tables. Average seller doesn’t have the same eye, same sales perspective- except when it’s a fire sale and you want to attract fixer-up people or flippers, at rock bottom price.</p>
<p>Pre, the 60k now in savings is being eaten by the aide care which, to be legal, is quite high and rises steeply in January. But good point to clarify the add-ons. Eg, getting a staffer to take her to meals can cost. If she currently has an incontinence issue (and/or it gets worse,) and needs help, it can cost.</p>
<p>DON’T DO REVERSE MORTGAGE. As soon as she moves out of the house, it will all be due and the RM company gets a windfall of $100,000+. There is absolutely NO reason to get an RM. Please, please do NOT pursue a RM but get the house sold. There are companies that specialize in helping declutter and clean houses for resale. I suspect your eldercare attorney will have names she can refer you and mom to to move this process along. The RM company salesman is pushing you because he can see his $$$ vanishing. You had $60K, use whatever there is remaining until the house sells and gives you more assets to work with. Do NOT be pressured or even consider a RM.</p>
<p>Congrats on your hard work. Keep moving–you’re on the right track!</p>
<p>Plus, with a reverse mortgage, what convinces Mom she needs to move for financial reasons? It’s a thinking trap. Stand back and see RM for what it is- a profit for the sales rep and his employer. He’s no independent consultant, with no ties or personal motives. As I say, look for “Who’s driving the Mercedes?” (Or, who wants to be?)</p>
<p>JYM, thanks for your thoughts about the elderly relative. Her “kids” are in their 60s and living 2500+ miles from her. She hasn’t been declared incompetent. I can’t see that anything would be gained by calling social services, but it could worsen things. Her brother is calling her “kids” to have them step up. I’m pretty sure he will make sure they do SOMETHING and soon!</p>
<p>And most of all – if your mom is not living in her home, she’s ineligible.</p>
<p>I can’t tell you how much I wish my MIL hadn’t done the reverse mortgage when she did it without telling us. The costs were truly enormous. </p>
<p>She’s not going back to the house, so selling it is precisely the right thing to do. Keeping an empty house heated and paying property taxes and maintenance is just water down the drain – and she might not even have an easy time keeping it insured if it is vacant for a while. </p>
<p>Thick skin. </p>
<p>No reverse mortgage. </p>
<p>Look at the AL options and select the best one - you are good at charting to help you decide. Give the best spin to your mom.</p>
<p>I am not surprised about your mom’s behavior with the Psychiatrist DW. MD opened up to you because you opened up to MD. Was what was revealed truly out of character for your mother?</p>
<p>I went to one of my mom’s psychiatrist appts (I live 750 miles away) - her MD knew the ins and outs of my family. To show how narcissistic mom was, she would only have my brother visit alone (he lives in a remote state the other direction from me) - she would have him come so he could give her his full attention. If several of us siblings were together, she would try to stir up trouble - again, she wanted the attention (and power, and control…). I was there to help care for her a week (traded off with another sis) after a bad car accident and after hospital discharge. Mom did not want me to bring my only child (who could fly for free at age 1 1/2) because she wanted all my care and attention - could not even share me with her baby grand-daughter! I found out I was pregnant with my DD2, and mom was happy about that. Psychiatrist knew mom well enough to know she needed meds and monitoring - no ‘fix’.</p>
<p>So DW many of us can relate to a dysfunctional situation. You just have to do the sane, right thing and have the confidence and fortitude to proceed forward. Keep working on happiness within.</p>
<p>Great advice on this thread.</p>
<p>Dharmawheel, she can complain all she wants to the psychiatrist, but she’s not going to move in with hated you and your hated husband when she runs out of money. And you know that’s her ultimate goal, she actually told you so! No, it will not happen and you have the power to make it not happen.</p>
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<p>And the rep will send back answers which sound good. He has a financial interest in convincing you that a very stupid move is the best thing you could possibly do. Please, if you must pursue this, at least talk to someone who doesn’t stand to make money from your decision. Don’t count on a salesman to tell you the whole truth about the downside.</p>
<p>ETA – Actually, don’t pursue it. She has plenty of money now if you don’t dawdle. Get her out, get the house on the market, get it sold, and be done with it. This drawing it out isn’t helping anyone. You could easily have it sold by the end of the year if you have a good agent and price it right.</p>
<p>Dharmawheel, I hope this amateur diagnosis isn’t presumptuous. I had similar issues with my dad but I am sure he was much easier to deal with because his personality is very different.</p>
<p>Your mother is a very strong, manipulative personality. Her manipulations always have an undercurrent of criticizing and belittling you, like when she talked about getting a piano for your totally absent sister while you are running around like a crazy person trying to accommodate your mother and figure out a way for her to continue to live at home with you at her beck and call. Even better, the earlier she runs out of money, the sooner she gets to live in your house so you can be her personal servant since there will be no money left for the Polish aides. Perfect timing–with a little bit of luck your youngest will be in college by then an she can have you all to yourself. </p>
<p>When she does these things, it makes you feel guilty, like you are not doing enough. Plus she complains about you and your husband behind your back (but in a way that makes it likely that you will find out eventually–maybe she complains to the aides too), making you feel even guiltier.But you can never do enough for her. You have to understand that. You are a good daughter! She is not a good mother but you are more than fulfilling your obligations to her as her daughter. </p>
<p>You really need to protect yourself and your family from her craziness. And on top of it all, there is nothing wrong, nothing dishonorable, about her moving to assisted living. Her needs will be met there, and she will be in the company of enough people that she can have relationships that aren’t master-servant in nature like with the aides and with you. </p>
<p>Maybe the therapist you are working with isn’t the right person to help you work through this. I know I was very, very lucky to find the right person when I needed her. If only she were closer to you, I would recommend her in an instant–could you take the railroad to Grand Central every week? She is right across the street. Once I got past being afraid of the Ghost of Daddy, my father who yelled all the time and called me an ingrate when I was younger, it was so much easier to deal with him. I wish the same for you.</p>
<p>To reiterate what someone else said about AL, costs there only go up. You should ask what their average increase in monthly rental has been, and check to see how their AL charges are arranged. Most ALs have a tiered system depending on how many services you need. Those charges go up annually too, even if your mother doesn’t need additional services. They go up even more if her needs increase.</p>
<p>Preironic: “I also don’t understand the reasons to keep pursuing the RM. She has the assets for the next year or so and by then you will both probably be mentally ready to sell the house and get the real profits.”</p>
<p>Really? If this is true I will have a good night’s sleep.</p>
<p>Preironic, don’t laugh at me but I am trembling and anxious and have been fiddling with the calculator to no avail. Would you kindly help me with the math? The AL places want like a $500 down fee, plus $6,000 first month, and $6000 last month.Just to step inside I figure the AL,after we pay the caregiver one or more payrolls (YES travel nut I want her out ASAP), about 4,200, and pay for a moving truck and movers, she will be down to about $40,000. How many months ($6,000 a month) will $40,000 pay for? As for “add ons” you are right; they even charge extra for a shower. To save money, I would fill my mother’s medicine kit twice a month and I do think she has enough of her wits about her to take her meds on time. To have a nurse do these things is a huge expense. </p>
<p>Dharmawheel, you don’t have to get top dollar for your mother’s house. Empty it out, have it cleaned and painted, put it on the market to sell. Start asking around for a great realtor.</p>
<p>Exactly. Get it done. As I said, there is nothing to be gained by drawing it out. </p>
<p>AL isn’t cheap, but neither is staying at home. Maintenance, insurance, taxes, groceries, and of course, those ever-more-costly aides. </p>
<p>Find a good realtor now. Don’t wait till you’re sure you’re ready to sell. Find one NOW. He/she will put you in a position to hit the ground running when it’s time. They’ll get you an appraisal. They’ll give you an understanding of the market. They’ll tell you what you need to do to get it sale-ready. STOP researching payroll law and reverse mortgage – the time for that is past. START getting into house-sale mode – that’s your immediate future. </p>
<p>And don’t over-think the RE agent. Find one who works in your neighborhood, sells, not just lists. Now. See if he or she seems on the ball, willing to have open houses and etc. </p>
<p>How much will 40k pay for? After first and last, that’s 28k, right? 1500/mo from SS minus an allowance for the hairdresser on site, a lunch out, stamps, personal, the aide coming in a few times to be friendly. Call it $250 Somewhere figure in her addl Medicare supplement costs.</p>
<p>6k-1250=4750 draw per month. Sure looks like it lasts 8 addl months. But you can sell and close the house in well under that, if you take action. Now. Close by Christmas or even sooner. But only if you act now.</p>
<p>If you mean 40 k after the first and last, that changes the numbers. </p>