Parents caring for the parent support thread (Part 1)

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<p>What makes all of this so hard in my situation is that my mom is VERY feeble physically, but she has no dementia, etc. She does want people to wait on her hand and foot and her lack of effort and physical movement over her life has led her here. She can hardly stand up and make it down the hallway walking now. And of course won’t use a cane, walker or wheelchair in her new place because she doesn’t want to look old. Like staggering, hanging on walls and shuffling at turtle speed doesn’t give her away.</p>

<p>AL is generally too spread out. She can’t make it down the long hallways to eat, etc. She also isn’t a joiner in activities. But what’s so sad is most of these places seem to be focused on dementia/alzheimers and her problems truly are physical. </p>

<p>She’s okay where she is for now and is starting to get some help. She’s battling the never ending bladder infections. I believe because of the lasix and need to wear some kind of pad all the time.</p>

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<p>Honey, another cost breakdown for someone who either doesn’t read it or doesn’t process the details? What’s missing from before and what do you expect to be your mother;s reaction? What have you delayed or left unattended, to return to this document? </p>

<p>Did you call the realtor? How can you project costs to sell? </p>

<p>Also, with our elderly, it is not always important that the see all the same docs- my mother changed when she moved here. My grandmother changed at will. You or DD1 could drive her to the psychiatrist or some specialist, but to expect a facility to drive her 26 miles on a routine basis-? Then wait, then bring her back? (That was one number you quoted, I think.) And next year she’ll be 88, then 89. To trade some other attention or future fail-safe for that-? Is it a topmost priority? </p>

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<p>Dharma,
Please do not overload yourself and your mom with numbers. Its like giving her too much ammunition to fire back at you , and to get sidetracked in small details. It doesnt matter if the $ lasts 6 mos or 7, the issue is she HAS TO MOVE. She cannot afford the house and the inhome care, especially after the new laws go into effect, and you are not available to run all these errands. PERIOD. And its best to move her ASAP while the weather is still good, and the market is better for housing before the winter hits. I am not going to tell you the challenges we ran into selling the house in the winter. It would just be a distraction. </p>

<p>I would not bring your dau in unless it wil help with a “show of force” as it were, and keep your mom from blowing up. That is the only reason. </p>

<p>The Danbury one wont take her to the Drs. so Drop it. Leave the other 2 (one seen and Fridays) as the choice be between those two. No transportation to NY drs? Deal breaker.
STAY FOCUSED AND KEEP IT BRIEF.</p>

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<p>Dharma, I really think you can entirely skip the financial presentation to your mother, including spreadsheets and your D’s Involvement. How many times have you had that conversation with her? It is time to stop trying to win her agreement as if she’s a rational person. She just isn’t. You need to start putting your time and energy into moving ahead with what you know needs to be done.</p>

<p>I’m glad to hear about your anticipated visit to the real estate office</p>

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<p>Let;s repeat that: it doesn’t matter if the current savings lasts 6,7 or 8 months.<br>
You are not spread-sheeting to give her choices-- “Mom, this way it lasts 6, that way you get 8.” </p>

<p>Why can’t the aide protect you?</p>

<p>And, what are you giving up, so she can be transported to the same docs, that distance, that amount of time sitting in a vehicle? (Alone?)</p>

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<p>With all due respect, dharma, if you are making many of us crazy here talking about going over numbers again, how do you think your mom will respond. Just be reassuring that she will love it , and all the attention there, but that it is a necessity for both health and financial reasons. PERIOD. Then focus on which of the 2 does she prefer. Move forward. Dont stay stuck on the same issues.</p>

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<p>My apologies, too, but this is all spinning my head. We think you have your 1-2-3 on the to-do list, then you tell us you’re going back to something we thought was sufficiently resolved before. Or adding a new task, that sure seems to us to be unnecessary. Or choosing a riskier path. Telling us you will not cave, but still acquiescing. </p>

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<p>No. No no no. There is no need to present this to your mother. Tell her what is going to happen, and have her pick which Al she wants. That is all. You should not create opportunities for your mother to have arguments with you. </p>

<p>Instead of making a spreadsheet, pick up the phone and talk to the nice realtor. She’ll be friendly, she’ll be helpful, she’ll be positive. She’ll get you on track for your next step, which is not making a spreadsheet but preparing your mother for the move, so that the house can be sold.</p>

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<p>Exactly! </p>

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<p>Who chaperones her on the long trip to the docs? When she wants to stop at TJ? When she has to use a bathroom?</p>

<p>Keep it simple. This AL place has to work for you, too. Or I promise, you will be driving to Danbury or whatever, you will be taking her back to the doc, you will be driving her back to the AL, resisting (or not) the stops along the way-- and then driving home.</p>

<p>I apologize to all posters if I’m throwing in a distraction. But this is getting more and more convoluted. Vet for the AL places that work for the family. Give mom two (now 3) choices. We’re past that, but try to recover what control you you can. </p>

<p>From Getting to Yes: the soft negotiator wants to avoid personal conflict and so makes concessions readily in order to reach agreement. He wants an amicable resolution; yet he often ends up exploited and feeling bitter.</p>

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<p>Dharma --</p>

<p>Truly --KISS is the golden rule. No spreadsheets, no documents, just, “Mom, which AL is better: A or B.” That’s it. You’re setting yourself up for failure if you keep trying to reason with the unreasonable. It is like trying to reason with a two-year-old. Ain’t gonna happen. </p>

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<p>Ha. My mom colors her hair and apparently believes that because of this, everyone thinks she’s a teenager living in an old folks home!</p>

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<p>So much wisdom above. Wrote before I saw it all. </p>

<p>DW- you are on the right track. Have to be quick, but wanted to share my experience. I would not make the decision against continuum of care facilities based on driving mother to dr. You see how hard these transitions are now. They get much harder as people fail. If you move her to one comprehensive care place, every little set back or minor procedure or need for extra care does not become a crisis for you. I believe you can not imagine a time when your mother’s crises didn’t regularly hi-jack your life, but please believe it is possible if you move her to the right place- one big move. It could well make most sense for your mother’s care to be based where she lives. Getting out in inclement weather and traveling to Drs takes everything out of an elder. Zero sum game. Perhaps her psychiatrist will be helpful in the initial transition, but otherwise I’d go with the best long term option, planning for declining health, and not putting myself in the position of repeating this ever so arduous process, perhaps in a short time. She can have Drs based near her. It is up to you to do the calculations on priorities. My life has been millions of times easier because I moved my parents to one facility that has handled every eventuality for both of them. And I do mean every eventuality. Do not let the tail wag the dog. Do find out what the criteria is for no longer being eligible or suitable for each AL. Your mother may be closer to meeting it at different places. </p>

<p>I do not understand gearing up for a big meeting to once again review it all in minute detail. She’s got it. She’s going. Carry on. Stop sabotaging yourself in service of a process she can not engage in fully. Believe in DW. Also, this repeated process can be humiliating and provocative to your mother. Spare her. Reassure her that things are moving in the right direction. Smile. It will all work out. </p>

<p>I thought it was brilliant that you went to psychiatrist with her. I would have also. Here’s why: to secure the partnership with him, know for sure what is happening and be able to troubleshoot any backsliding if needed. This has been a helpful relationship to your mother and you. </p>

<p>Best with this all. </p>

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<p>Sounds like you are on this, tipmom. I had to make the call as to when to move my cooperative father with severe memory loss to a dementia unit from AL also. I saw evidence that despite his chipper demeanor, it was taking a lot of work for him to navigate his wider and less structured environment. A unit with relevant expertise smooths out the wrinkles, anticipates needs, and is therefore very reassuring to patients. Also, there is the expertise to handle these upsets without taking it personally or being afraid. I was happy that my father went with as much of wits about him as possible. He never looked back and I had the peace of mind that the other shoe could never drop and I would be forced to move him in a crisis. </p>

<p>Testing for a UTI is a good idea. What a catch 22 if her decline in this way is recent and secondary to an infection, but she won’t be tested. Does she have a history of UTIs making her more confused? If she did, I would try whatever helped her in the past as it could be therapeutic and diagnostic. Don’t want to move her for something that could resolve in days. My non-demented mother would get asymptomatic UTIs that would throw her cognition out the window. It would improve quickly with antibiotics. I hope that this sorts out for your mother. </p>

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<p>Dharmawheel, I think you keep making lists and making arrangements to explain things to your mother because you feel guilty. You feel like you are being a bad daughter to make Mom move against her will, and you are worried about how she will attack you in response. Of course you feel this way: this is how she’s treated you all her life.</p>

<p>But that doesn’t make it the right thing to do: not for you, not for her, not for your family. There is nothing positive whatsoever to allow her to continue to manipulate you with guilt. You have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of. You have been a really good daughter to a mother who is impossible to please and would rather die than relinquish her control over her.</p>

<p>Even if you don’t believe it in your heart of hearts, if you don’t feel like you should be in charge, if you don’t believe you are allowed to win a war of wills with her, you have to pretend that you do. Rehearse how Dharmawheel the Robot would handle this very difficult person, and follow your lines. You can take care of the therapy later, but the whole transition will be so much smoother and better for all, including your mother, if you can master your fears and act like you don’t have a doubt in the world.</p>

<p>And I agree with whoever said that you shouldn’t worry about what happens if she screams nonstop after she enters AL. That’s their job, just like it’s the daycare’s job to deal with the screaming toddler when mom drops her off and goes to work. Your mother will be paying good money for them to take care of her, and they will, whether she likes it or not.</p>

<p>(((((HUGS))))), it’s not easy. When I started seeing my shrink, she said to me that it is so much better to work out deep issues with a parent when the parent is still alive. Not that it’s impossible to do when the parent is gone, but that’s not the best way. I can’t begin to tell you how grateful I am that I had worked through a lot of sh** related to the history of my relationship with my dad. Better for me and better for him too because I could handle his last few weeks without the alarm horn booming in my head like it did whenever I was with him when I first started taking care of his and my stepmother’s needs. There are times when I still second-guess myself about his last week, when I looked at his living will and made sure that his wishes were complied with. But I know that I did the best I could to follow his directives when he could no longer do so, even though if I had let them put in a feeding tube, he would have lingered longer. I know that my second-guessing is related to the fact that it would have been a lot harder for me if he had lingered. But that was not what he wanted, and I did it for him, not for my own convenience. And that’s what you are doing for your mom–not to get her away from you, to make it harder for her to zap you with her judgment and manipulation week after week, although of course that will happen too. But because it’s the right thing to do for her, for you only secondarily. You don’t have to feel guilty for not letting her run out of money and move into your home and wreak havoc with your relationship with your husband and children. NO NO NO NO NO a thousand, million, zillion times no.</p>

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<p>Folks; I need some words of wisdom to help me live in the present and not get my stomach tied up in knots with worry/dread.</p>

<p>SIL just contacted me asking me if my mom would be having a 90th birthday celebration as she’d talked about having one in the past, and SIL would need to book airline tix, car, etc. for the four of them in the not so distant future as my mom’s January birthday is just around the corner and one of the flights would probably be over the holidays. I know my brother and his family would expect to stay with my mom since she lives alone in a 4BR, 2+BA house, and my 2BR, 1BA house is much smaller and without a spare bedroom as DD would be home for the holidays. I also know that for them to stay at a hotel for the duration is likely to be cost prohibitive.</p>

<p>I know that my mom wouldn’t want them to stay with her; she doesn’t want anyone there. It disrupts her life. She might grudgingly be okay with my brother (ONLY) staying there. I even think she would be okay with not seeing her grandchildren (which breaks my heart), but I couldn’t tell SIL that. Truth be known, <em>I</em> really want to see them as it’s been years! </p>

<p>It might be a solution to have them stay in a hotel <em>if</em> my mom would pay, but I can’t see her as being that generous and especially not if they ask even though she could actually afford it. Any ideas on how to make her think it’s her idea?!? DH & I don’t have the funds to pay for a hotel for them, unfortunately.</p>

<p>She would want to see them only on her particular <em>schedule</em>, and not a moment earlier and not a moment longer. I don’t know how I’ll break this to SIL as she is quite a bit younger than I and so her peer set hasn’t had to contend with these rigidities. </p>

<p>I would truly like to be proven wrong so I didn’t give any words of warning in my email back to SIL. If they do come and stay with my mom, I will hear nothing but constant complaints and desire for a pity party for the next six months. And if she tells them she doesn’t want them or that she wants only my brother, what can I say to soften the blow? </p>

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<p>Have you communicated with her before or is she aware that “mom” has become grumpy and tied to her limited schedule?</p>

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<p>January is soon to those planning airline tickets in the holiday season and far off for a frail elder. It is hard to know what will make sense then. I would let s-i-l know that mom’s capacity is down and planning that far ahead is a bit of a moving target. If holiday airfares impact the planning, I’d go farther out into January for any celebration and hope rates drop. I’d share observations about how hard specifics are day to day for mom and say it is not clear that staying with her will be a workable option, as she is currently not up for much, ensuring that none of this is personal. Ask your sister in law what their parameters are. There a lot of ways to play this. You can’t have all the answers, only set up the atmosphere for talking about what will work best all around. Hopefully, you can talk adult to adult. Know that it is not on you to make your s-i-l’s financial situation work, nor on you to pretend to have the highly elusive elder care crystal ball. </p>

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<p>CCsiteObsessed, your SIL may be younger than you, but it’s no secret that old people tend to change as they get very old, and not usually for the better. You can say that you are really sorry, but your mother has become very rigid and probably couldn’t tolerate them staying there.</p>

<p>What if they came late in January after the holiday, when fares will be cheaper? Maybe your daughter will be back in college and some of them could stay with you? (Only if you could deal with that!)</p>

<p>It’s not your fault that your mom is getting ornery!</p>

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<p>Oh, let me fill you in. My mother is in many ways a pardoxical person. She can seem vague, but will intelligently scrutinize each and each every bill and enter it into her account book, and she keeps remarkable records, kindly, for me for when she dies.She has every detail planned out for that eventuality (except, unfortunately, prepayment FOR HER BURIAL, but I cant bring that up now.) SORRY, I AM HAVING PROBLEMS WITH THE KEYBOARD.</p>

<p>I definitely needed the cost sheet and I made it very SIMPLE and clear to understand. DD1 checked my math. I showed my mother, how I outlined on the sheet, that she had enough money to live (depending on place and add-ONS ( I guestimated) THE COST OF HER level of care) about conclued she had seven months of pay on hand at AL. I spent the entire afternoon doing mental gymnastics about her payroll and tax costs for the next two pay periods, her income from SS, etc. She saw exactly what her current cash assets were on the page I showed her. The hardest part was saying to her in the tenderest way, that the house needed to sold asap. Her cash will allow her seven months of AL. A closing, I figure, takes two weeks. In seven weeks we will need CASH from the sale of the house to pay her rent at AL. o we ned a FIRM BID in five months. I was sick with fear that she would rebel at putting the house on the market immediately. But to my astonishment, she agreed. She also DECLARED, of her own volition, the cost of maintaining the house and the caregiver were impossible. As we sat , it was clear we had reached an accord. If we have a closing in seven months, we need a sales agreement/contract in five months, I figure.</p>

<p>Now, I ask you for analysis. I felt so touched and moved at my mother’s simple acquiesence to accept facts in light of her degenerating condition at 88 years old, I got up and gave her a big, long hug , and said, I know this is hard for you, and you have been doing so great." She shook me off and said, let’s not get sentimental, its no big deal, I’m fine." We were never a touchy feely family, and this had been my first real (aside from quick “goodbye” hugs" in years. Does it mean anything, being shrugged off? Any insight, or should I forget it and stop my burrowing habit of looking for “root causes” and so forth. (Overanalyzing and overexamining, things I should certainly after this adenture, give up. My primary care physician told me so when I came in last week, and she entered the exam room and found me crying my eyes out. I can and did quickly calm down and said it was only when I saw a sympathetic person I lost control to, I broke down. I probably wrote this earlier. Her mother is in ManhATTEN, 60 MILES AWAY. SORRY, CAN’T CHANGE THE CAPS. She told me to tHINK about it as LITTLE AS POSSIBLE, and to ONLY DO WHAT IS VITALLY NECESSEY>)
So tomorrow I see the realtor in town and he will arrange with my mother a time to take;photos etc. We tour the facility nearby in Carmel on Friday. </p>

<p>By the way, as I showed her on the cost-breakdown sheet, even with the cash from the sale of the house, she could only have enough cash to live in AL for 41 months; 4 years. I was surprised it was so low. </p>