My mom died in November, widowed for a couple of decades. When my dad died, she put either my brother or my brother and myself (or other sibs) on all her bank accounts/checking accounts. She also had a will where I am the executor.
So far we have had no trouble (fingers crossed) working with banks, transferring $ to one bank, depositing checks, writing checks, cashing out life insurance, annuities etc.
I would ask an attorney before setting up an estate for this. Did they have a joint checking account? Should be able to put it into that IMHO but may have to sign off on the check a certain way. Maybe your bank will know on how it can be handled.
Lesson learned - just talk with confidence with your mother (and donât ask questions in front of her). Maybe you can close the can of worms quickly.
The bank said that my dadâs accounts where he was primary were required to be closed within two months, and pulled his name off the joint accounts. Apparently in WA, you canât have a dead person on an account for long, or maybe thatâs a federal restriction. Bank says weâll be able to do a Small Estate Affidavit instead of going through probate in order to cash checks made out to him and get an estate account. Iâm sure itâs different in other states. Fingers crossed this works, my attorney says it should.
A different assisted living facility manager told me that they should have written the check out to the POA or the responsible payer (both my mom), and if Dad was alive, they would not have written a check to someone in memory care, who had a POA anyways. Crickets from the people who are writing the check, when I mentioned my lawyer and the legal requirements of a Small Estate Affidavit. I wonder how often they just get to keep refund money they owe people because they arenât able to cash the check or know how to go through this process.
They shouldnât ever get to keep the money. If you have money that belongs to someone (dead or alive) and you canât find that person, it escheats to the state. The state then tries to return that money. If the person still doesnât respond, the state keeps the money. This happens with insurance policies, utility deposits, stock certificates, bank account overages. Right now my brother has several accounts, some with as little as $.10 in them waiting to be claimed. Usually those small amounts are for interest corrections and the account was closed before the correction.
My friendâs brother died and there is some mystery amounts waiting to be claimed. He had 401k accounts but basically died as a homeless man, so she doesnât know how much is in those accounts. It may require her to open a probate case to get the executorâs letters, but it could be several thousands of dollars.
That may be the way itâs supposed to work, but Iâm a little cynical with this facility. âOh gee, forgot to put that one month free rent veteranâs discount on his account, glad you caught it. Thought I sent you that refund check the other day, sorry about that. Gosh, Iâll check with corporate and have them FedEx that check right out.â I wouldnât be surprised at all if this check expired, uncashed, and nobody said a word to us or the state.
Any chance your friend was named as a beneficiary on the 401K accounts? That would definitely bypass probate.
It sometimes takes a while (often years) but an audit of a regulated business will find these funds. A nursing home has a LOT of funds that go to the state because they have a lot of people who die with assets at the facility.
If she was named as a beneficiary, the money paid to the state would be in her name. I think if he listed anyone as a beneficiary it would have been their mother, who died about 20 years ago. Theyâve been working on getting wills for themselves for at least 5 years and something always happens to stall it. He has children from a prior marriage and believe it or not, his divorce decree from 30+ years ago has provisions in it that control some of their options. He wants a trust for his 40something year old son who doesnât work, but may have to do something for his 50something year old daughter who also doesnât work. Also in the picture are his 99 year old mother who owns the house and some lots next door, and his 75 year old sister and her boyfriend who my friend is convinced is scheming to take all the property and âinvestâ it. The 2 houses and 3 extra lots are worth about 5 million.
Oh, I should have such problems of how to claw in all the millions!
This thread is a great ad for an estate planner! I know they can be expensive upfront but man can they smooth the road afterward. I thought our will would be straightforward but when different scenarios kept coming up (all those "what if"s) it took much more decision making than I first thought. Even though my dad was a great organizer there were things hanging out there that he just never really considered. Like changing beneficiaries after my mom passedâit just would have saved a lot of paperwork.
Glad you got some answers and are working it all out.
May get me âworkingâ on having our (DH and my) estate situation worked out. Have some different scenarios to think about. Need to get more in touch with our state laws and how to do some things straightforward and as simply as possible.
Hallelujah, got it worked out. Larger credit union said they could open an estate account with a Small Estate Affidavit, instead of going through probate. When we sat down to do it and management was consulted, nope, canât do it. But the nugget of wisdom that helped us, was the account manager suggestion to try a small local bank, and told us which one to try. She pulled her chair over, and said it in low, hushed tones. Maybe they arenât supposed to recommend other banks. We went to the small bank, and boom, they opened the estate account, no problem. We deposited one of Dadâs checks. Thank God, hassle averted! Any checks that come in with his name on it can be deposited.
A great thing, is that while we were there, I suggested to my mom that we open up a joint account, so when itâs time for me to pay her bills, I can do so. One small step, and she agreed. This bank is four blocks from my momâs house, which is wonderful. My mom has been driving 30 minutes to her credit union every time she needs cash, because she doesnât know how to use an ATM machine (or really, even what itâs for). I hadnât realized that, and when the kind woman helping us realized that, she told my mom that she would teach her how to use an ATM. What a sweet lady. It blows me away that my mom has been the financially responsible person for all these years, and she doesnât actually understand how to use an ATM, or even how a credit card works. I had no idea she was so unaware of these things, but they lived so far below their means, it worked out fine.
My mother is coming home from rehab on Tuesday. My father has had a handy man come and install a second bannister on the staircase, as well as safety bars in the bathroom and ADA-compliant (higher) toilets. Weâve got a bedrail and mattress wedge for the bed. I am 
hoping we can avoid disaster, at least for the time being.
The good news is my father has now come around to the idea that they may not live out the rest of their lives in that house, which is a huge jump from the stance heâs always maintained up until this latest ordeal.
Partially a rant and partially information that I think others should know. My 90 year old father has been in and out of the hospital many times over the last 2 years (include a long covid stint). He has COPD, basically his lungs are shot, and usually resides in an assisted living facility. He has been there for several years and is basically bed bound.
This past hospital stay they told me he needed too much care to go back to his assisted living and he was put in a rehab facility. I was told that the biggest issue was his oxygen needs (they can only do a certain amount with the portable home unit at the assisted living), and he would get PT and OT most days a week in the rehab place. He has been there for 2 weeks and is miserable there, wants to be in his room back at the assisted living. His cognitive abilities are horrible when he is not in his usual place - very confused when in the hospital and now in rehab.
I have been asking almost daily, how long will he be there, what are his oxygen needs, is he at a level they can give in the assisted living. Yesterday, I had a phone meeting with his team (first one they would do with me) and they said he was making progress and they estimate releasing him in a month. I asked if they were working on reducing his oxygen and they said no. Turns out his oxygen needs all this time (since his hospital release) are at a level that the assisted living can provide. I threw a fit and told them to get him evaluated for release back to his assisted living NOW.
A few lessons learned, despite being diligent, I was misled by the rehab all this time. You really need to advocate thinking about the full picture - what is more important - him being able to think clearly and be happy or getting a few more hours of PT a week?
It seems to me that one of the top requirements for being in rehab would be the desire to be there. Especially for an elderly patient. It makes me think that once they got him there and Medicare was paying the bills, they have a monetary incentive to get him to stay. I would also go ballistic, contacting the insurers, managers, threatening lawsuits, getting advocates involved, whatever it takes to get him out of there.
We have so much trust in these facilities, and sometimes it seems theyâre just on automatic, not looking at the big picture. And as most of us are not medically trained, how are we supposed to know differently?
I wonder if the AL also pushed back on your dad going back straight from the hospital? We had my momâs MC push back on taking her back after on hospitalization and we had to agree to pay for additional private duty care for her for a week until she was back to her baseline.
I think the AL was on the same page as me. But they were told by the hospital social worker at time of release he needs more care then you can give him and they believed it. Also, this is a rehab that they work with and recommended (I asked them about it before approving the move in the first place). They told me it is the best rehab around.
I also think it is a big money grab for the rehab place. Once they got their hands on him they were not interested in losing him. Every conversation I had from the beginning was what does he need that the AL canât do for him and how long will he need to be there.
The rehab also did some strange things - like they wouldnât let his lawyer in to see him until I approved it (kept the lawyer waiting in a lobby), didnât ever call me with medical updates, the first two days I got called by 6 different people at the rehab asking me the same questions (is your father a widow, what is his religion, what are his hobbies, etc.) - you ask once and note it in his record for everybody to access?, insisted on having my home address, etc.
I hope you can get him transferred back to the AL quickly!
If you have concerns that they are trying to milk Medicare, you can report them to the state.
My MIL & FIL decided to move into AL 2.5 years ago. They lived 13 hours from us & 3 hours from SIL. FIL passed away a little over a year ago, and I canât say enough good things about the care he received at the AL his last weeks. My MIL has recently declined - short term memory is almost nonexistent - and she told SIL that it was time for her to move near SIL. It happened incredibly quickly, and the move is today. H trusted his S to pick out the facility, but I am worried. MILâs care was so good at the original AL, and I worry about the new place. Itâs scary to think that maybe things wonât be as good for her. We just have to hope it works out well.
Ugh, we have not been impressed with rehab AT ALL the times my dad has been there. He has gotten very little attention and not much PT at all, even though they promise it. I hope he doesnât need to go to rehab after his surgery on April 9, but I imagine they will want him to. My sister and I will do what we can to get him back to Independent Living ASAP.
I signed my mother out of rehab after two days the last time she was there. Instead had a PT go to her room. If the AL had insisted on extra care, I would have hired someone, but they also know I am there. One time they required me to sleep on her couch for a week!
If she goes to the hospital, she forgets her AL entirely after two days. When I take her home she says âoh is this the new place?â Last time, she kept caling me to help her pack to leave and âgo homeâ (house is long sold). After a few days she told me that looking out the window from her bed, she suddenly felt at home in the AL!
Many patients believe they should either be in the hospital or be back âhomeâ - whatever âhomeâ is for them. Medicare will only pay for rehab during a particular time period and only if the individual is progressing.
I have worked for a skilled care/rehab facility (I worked strictly admission nursing assessments the last two years in rehab) and have seen where people refused to come to rehab from the hospital, and then fell while getting out of the car at home because they needed rehab. Some have been at home for a few days, and the family has decided that THEY do not want to do the work that the rehab facility can provide with personal care â and their loved one has not had PT/OT/ST evaluation. Usually people need the PT and OT (the OT will help with things like being able to advance with skills like showering with less assistance to potentially no assistance).
Each state has its own regulations on assisted living. I guess it was needed to be probed on exactly what is gained in rehab and what is beneficial to go back âhomeâ with additional help.
The problem is that rehab benefits (PT, OT, ST) with Medicare are tied to having the need for rehab and being provided in-patient.
During my assessment and talking to the patient and sometimes family - I can often get them to go through the next dayâs PT/OT/ST assessments. Then they can weigh out what the benefits are to staying.
Our well run and higher rated rehab facility is picked off a list by patients/families from the hospital â a list of facilities is shown to patient/family and then they check on room availability.
Some patients donât want to stay, no matter what. However if they were still in the hospital, a family member would say they need to stay (do not want to usually discharge AMA - against medical advice).
I had a late 80âs lady complaining to her son. The daughter lived closer to the facility so she was directed by her brother to pick mother up. Obviously the daughter was not happy. The son told me on the phone âI am not going to have my mother somewhere she does not want to be.â I did talk to the daughter about how the mom may be more motivated to ârehabâ at home because she wants to be there. The mom was a small woman, so she would be easy for one to assist her physically - but I can imagine she could be quite a demanding personality.
Wow on being bedridden and still qualifying in state for assisted living.
I have seen older (and not so old) quite large/morbid obese people that have moved at home from recliner to bathroom to bed (needing a bed to accommodate someone over 500 lb) and due to knee problem or broken hip having to ârehabâ. One guy had a petite wife who I am sure was âdemandedâ to bring him unhealthy food and oversized quantities of food. The bed we rented could be used for someone up to 550 lb. The guy complained the bed wasnât as big as his at home which could accommodate up to 650 lb.
I have seen people that have put in the effort to improve their health and mobility. It just takes so much effort when one has gotten to such a horrible place with their weight.
One woman under 60 had brought in unhealthy snack foods and was quite hostile about cutting back on these snacks (she was also diabetic in addition to being morbidly obese) âI have been doing just fine the way I am livingâ. She was not uneducated â she had a degree in social work and just allowed herself to gain weight raising a family and being a homemaker - IDK how long she had gone from being a bigger woman to being obese to morbidly obese to super morbidly obese. A few weeks later, she had a cardiac incident, and she died in the ambulance on the way to the hospital.
Rehab often involves a lot of work to regain mobility and regain ability to care for themselves or get back to status before hospitalization.
Families and patients often have difficulty with declining ability and hard decisions that need to be made about where to live safely. I understand about a world shrinking when I had aggressive stage III cancer and my world shrank big time from a long list of things I was use to doing to barely getting off the couch during the worst of the chemo.
Working in health care is not easy work!