parents' definition of "good" merit aid

Parents Forum
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<p>On the financial aid thread, it was asked once again: "What schools give good merit aid?"</p>

<p>I'm interested in your definition of what makes "good" merit aid? </p>

<p>Personally, I believe that much of merit aid is, in fact, "token". It makes the student and parents feel great, and gets them in the door. I don't mean to offend anyone who has received merit scholarships. That is the only way my family will be able to attend colleges outside our state system. But I'm nervous when I hear the list of colleges that give good merit aid, only to find out the percentage of the total tuition bill is indeed very small.</p>

<p>I'm a bit concerned about lists of colleges that supposedly give "a lot" of merit aid if it is typically less than 20% of the tuition. Granted, any amount is helpful, but i.m.h.o. "good" merit aid would bring the total tuition bill down to approximately equal what a state school would cost. Unfortunately, for most private colleges, this would require at least half tuition. "Great" merit aid, would of course be even more!!! (but in reality, those are typically reserved for a very small group of exceptional students). </p>

<p>Nearly everyone I know attending private colleges has received some sort of aid, either merit or need-based. But few share the actual dollar amount received. College pricing to me resembles auto pricing, or airline tickets. I assume a small percentage may pay the "list price", but that most pay some sort of "street price" which is less, and varies considerably depending upon student, parental income, etc. </p>

<p>We need some type of thread similar to "Bidding for Travel". On that web site, people submit the best prices they've negotiated for their priceline bids (hotel or airfaire). I guess a merit aid comparison would also require a list of stats to compare. That would be helpful financial info. for colleges!!!! (However, for privacy reasons I would be hesitant to post such information, and I assume that is also true for others).</p>

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<p>My son got what I considered a good merit scholarship at an out-of-state public university:</p>

<p>The OOS tuition was just about double the in-state tuition, and the room and board was about the same as the in-state tuition. So, if the in-state tuition were $X, the OOS tuition and room and board totaled approximately $3X.</p>

<p>He got a merit scholarship for the in-state tuition Plus another merit scholarship from the school for approximately half of the rest of the tuition, leaving us to pay approximately $1.5X (minus two other smaller scholarships he got).</p>

<p>And since X is an in-state tuition at a public university (relatively affordable), I'm very happy with the amount.</p>

<p>The nice thing is, since it's tied to tuition amounts (vs a fixed dollar amount), as tuition increases, the merit scholarship increases.</p>

<p>My definition of a good merit scholarship is one which brings the total college cost down to (or below) the cost of an in-state flagship university.</p>

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<p>The problem is that schools that give merit aid generally give awards that run the gamut from about $2000 to full tuition. And asking what some other kid got doesn't do any good unless you have a very good idea of what that student's qualifications were to get the aid. Also, many scholarships are geared for certain types of students - for example, one school may offer half or full tuition scholarships to kids who are math & science majors, but may not have a comparable award for kids who are focusing on humanities. </p>

<p>In general, the more your basic stats (grades & test scores) exceed the average for that school, the better the chance of generous aid -- with the caveat that many less prestigious colleges do not have large endowments, so they are limited in how much aid they can offer.</p>

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<p>My definition of good merit aid is this: The school is upfront about how much they will discount tuition based on certain levels of grades and test scores. A good example is DePauw. They have a nice little merit calculator on their website that you plug your numbers into and they tell you how much you will get. I disagree with Calmom, however, in her saying that less prestigious colleges don't give good merit money : in fact, in many cases it is exactly the "less prestigious" schools that give good merit money in order to attract better students. One of the fallacies about merit money is that you need skyhigh stats to get it: simply not true. There are many schools out there where someone with test scores of 1100 or 1200 and decent grades will automatically get some money. I have found it useful to do a google search with the test scores and the words merit scholarship (i.e. "1200 SAT merit scholarship") If students and parents are willing to look beyond prestige, and are flexible about location and the type of school, there are some incredible academic bargains built around merit money to be had. Unfortunately, here on CC when people say "good merit money" they mean "prestigious schools that give good money."</p>

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<p>Carolyn, I didn't say that less prestigious colleges didn't offer money - I said that "many" less prestigious colleges are "limited" in how much they can offer. I'll stand by that -- "many" is not the same as "all" -- and "limited" doesn't mean "none". My own experience with my son was that he got very modest awards from his safeties, even though his stats were well above average for those schools.</p>

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<p>In Texas, Southwestern and Baylor both have what Carolyn describes....x amount for x SAT and X GPA and so forth. Southwestern shows you how to calculate your base award on the website.</p>

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<p>For merit aid, you really can't beat state schools even out of state. As an example, take the University of Alabama. They allow students who win their most prestigious Tier I awards to combine that with other scholarships, which when combined with their national merit scholarship provides full tuition, honors room costs, a laptop, 2k for research, and a 9.5k stipend per year. Pretty nice, no? In addition, they let you keep any outside scholarships you might win.</p>

<p>Many private schools on the other hand will give out up to full tuition but deduct extra scholarships from that amount. For examples, the University of Rochester offers 10 full tuition scholarships, but gobbles up any other scholarships or need-based aid with that leaving the students and parents with a hefty 11k a year bill to foot with no other benefits. They also offer a ton of 10k scholarships to help lure in other students but this is merely token aid as it is much less than the 41k overall cost. Others, like Vanderbilt, offer lots of half and 3/4 tuition scholarships but the insanely high 30k+ tuition charged leaves many students paying 15-20k on top of that. Is that good merit aid? In simply numerical terms, yes, but when compared to other offers (say, a full ride plus travel, research, and a myriad of other benefits at a state U with a great honors program), it has to compete with the safeties. Of course, one could argue that these private schools are far above Alabama in academics but once you compare the opportunities available from 'Bama's excellent honors programs to what you'd get at the privatge schools, it becomes a much more level playing field.</p>

<p>I've noticed, to my suprise, that many private schools from the highest-ranked to the bottom of the barrel, offer the exact same kinds of scholarships. Most of the upper-tier ones max out at half tuition (i.e. Grinnell, Oberlin, Franklin and Marshall, etc. if they offer any) while the most I've seen is 4 full ride scholarships per year at many other colleges (i.e. Furman, Southwestern) who also severly limit the number of full tuition scholarships (Lewis and Clark, Trinity U (TX)). Compare that with, say, the University of Arkansas which doles out 75 full rides per year in addition to many full tuitions, and an interesting gap seems to develop. (Check the numbers to see that the size of an institution still indicates a skewed ratio- there are 14,000 undergrads at UArk vs. the 2600 at Furman so even 14000/2600 = ~5.25. 4 X 5.25= 21 compared to 75, so ratio-wise Uark wins.)</p>

<p>My opinion: You can find excellent merit aid at schools of similar quality if you're willing to look at public schools, especially their honors programs, in addition to private schools for safeties. You never know what you'll get unless you apply.</p>

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<p>Reality of a NY state parent. A SUNY school will cost approx. $14,000 a year (room/board/tuition). An OOS public U will cost us approx. $26,000 a year (ie. U. of maryland-delaware, towson etc). Most private U's will cost about $40,000/ year. Since I'd rather pay $26,000 a yr. than $40,000, I welcome all schools that "reduce the tuition by $10,000-12,000/year. Schools that fall into that category included U. of Rochester-Boston U- Tulane. (Tulane seems to be particularly generous and is becoming a lot more popular on Long Island.) You had to be a high caliber student to get the reduced tuition (1400- old SAT top 10 % blah-blah-blah-) but the merit award is offered to a lot of kids. There are many more prestigious and full tuition awards at other schools- but only a handful of kids receive them. If you are a real lucky NY state parent (which I am) your kid goes to one of the state funded schools at Cornell and you pay approx. $26,000/yr. which is what it costs to go to another OOS University. I know there are many schools that reduce tuition by a few thousand bucks but there was no way we could spend $30,000+ a year for college. We'll have 2 kids in college next year. I think this explains why approx. 2/3 of the graduating seniors from our Long Island HS go to SUNY schools or live at home and go to local schools like Hofstra and Adelphi.</p>

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<p>My definition of good merit aid includes consideration not only of the amount but of the criteria for renewal/continuation over all four years, and how merit and need-based are dovetailed.</p>

<p>Re amount: I'm hesitant to set a threshhold, but I think the amount shouldn't be quickly "wiped out" by the next year's and ensuing year's tuition/rm/board increases. So a $5,000 award followed by a similar increase in COA the next year begins to feel like "bait and switch."</p>

<p>I do like the idea of aid which brings COA down to the state U level. Still, a $10K or $15K award might not do that and would seem quite appealing to me.</p>

<p>Re continuation: S' award at Tulane requires a 2.7GPA to renew each year. I consider that realistic and acceptable - allows for carrying a tough program; the difficulty of achieving those high GPA's in, eg, engineering; and for some cases of Freshman adjustment. When I see awards requiring a GPA of 3.5, I feel a bit of a red-alert sounding. Altho our kids may be used to v. high GPA's in hs (and many would be disappointed with a 3.5), I hear that they can't necessarily expect to carry over such a stat in college.</p>

<p>Re merit/need dovetail: We didn't qualify for need-based, so I'm not clear on this, but it was my impressions that at some schools, merit awards are subtracted from what might have been grants in the need package; thus negating much of the value of the merit award. Schools which do this wouldn't be on my list of "good" merit aid schools.</p>

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<p>Exactly, jmmom. My D got a $10,000 a year award from NYU Stern, but it required a 3.5 gpa to renew. Right!! :eek:</p>

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<p>Great thread. Trying to guess the merit aid game is quite the challenge. I found that asking the college itself can be helpfull. While visiting Furman in the spring, I cornered one of their financial reps who willingly told me that our S would most likely be offered X amount of merit aid based on a glance at his stats. Perhaps that was a great sales job, perhaps not. As we continue to develop our safety/match/reach lists, we are struggling with what are really good matches and reaches while trying to "guess" what the merit aid "might" be. It all re-enforces what is repeated here often on CC, work and fall in love with your safeties first. In our case, the in-state option is our safety and S would ultimately be happy with that. What ends up on the match/reach list will be our biggest challenge.</p>

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<p>When we did my son's financial aid package last year and my daughter's this year there was a huge difference between schools with regards to percentage of merit with respect to overall tuition/room/board and to actual dollars.</p>

<p>Both applied to a variety of schools, large unis (in and out-of-state publics and privates), mid-size and smaller LACs. And they all varied. He ended up at an out-of-state LAC and she at an out-of-state public. We analyzed percentages and real dollars and then the bottom line, what it would cost us out-of-pocket, and how much was self-help. Son picked the one with the least out-of-pocket ($0 with a $2000 loan from an original cost of $38,000) and daughter went with a large public on the other side of the country (her choice was not the lowest out-of-pocket).</p>

<p>Her lowest out-of-pocket was also a LAC (43,0000 with $2000 loan per year). Next were two privates, both exceeding $41,000 per year in costs with $20,000 in merit plus need-based aid, but still left $8-9K to us. There were several others which fell in between these. The out-of-state public she choose had her major, her sport and a great coach. Her merit from them included a waiver for out-of-state tuition ($11,000 so if it goes up it is still waived), plus actual dollars off in-state tuition (tuition approx. $4000 less the dollars off from the merit) and then financial aid kicked in, plus some athletic money. The rest pays for the tuition, room and board. She will have a smaller loan ($1000 per year) but will have to come up with money for personal expenses and travel. The LAC included enough aid in their offer to pay for travel, and expenses (books...). Airfare is about the same to each school, so that was even. She does not need a new wardrobe, as she would have for the much more colder climate schools. Her money at the OOS public afforded her to pick a single room vs. double, and a better meal plan (many more offered). Also access to the airport was very easy rather than anywhere from 45-90 minutes away, as with the other schools she was accepted at.</p>

<p>So for us, both schools chosen did end up being cheaper than our in-state flagships, UNC-Chapel Hill and NC State (tuition $4200 plus about $9K in room and board). At those schools only one had her major and only one had a coach (1 at each). So that ruled out in-state for her. Many students at their high school, if not most are attending one of the state campuses. The two mentioned above have the highest in-state tuition where the other 14 campuses are lower and in some cases, much, much lower.</p>

<p>For us, the state schools are a great educational bargain as long as they have what the student needs. So far, of my five kiddos, only one is taking advantage of that!!! UNC-Wilmington, UNC Charlotte, UNC-Asheville and Appalachian State offer some unique and interesting programs. And their tuition are all less than UNC-Chapel Hill and NC State. Room and board are less at some of those schools as well. Some students are attending and living on campus for less than $7000 total with no merit aid or any aid whatsoever. Again a great educational bargain for in-staters. Maybe DS#2 (#4 child) will give the schools here a look.</p>

<p>Kat</p>

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<p>My son got half tuition (nice because it goes up), plus a nice music scholarship at Denison. It made the difference between him going there versus a SUNY school. He has to maintain a 3.0. He should have NO trouble with that, but if he fails to do that, he will either have to leave or take out loans. That is agreed on. Most importantly - he loves the place!</p>

<p>He got $12,000 from Fordham, but had to be renewed every year, which I find pretty worrisome - especially since it wasn't clear what the renewable terms were. He got $8,000 from Loyola Maryland. He also got a small scholarship (which now I can't remember - $5000?) at Case Western - but that was odd because his stats were quite a bit higher than some of the kids I saw online here that got half tuition and more. He might have been hurt by the "undecided" major, and the fact that his EC is music. They probably have plenty of musicians there already.</p>

<p>The above amounts are ALL merit based only, as we qualified for no need based aid.</p>

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<p>I can give you some specifics regarding merit aid my son was offered, most which we considered "good".</p>

<p>Rensselaer@$25,000/yr(no gpa requirement), Case@$17,000/yr(3.0gpa), Wooster@$15,000/yr(gpa 3.0), Allegheny@$15,000/yr+$4k stipend(3.0gpa), Ohio Wesleyan@$15,000/yr(3.0gpa), $6,000/yr@state university(3.0gpa).</p>

<p>Oberlin College@$2000/yr which seemed like a courtesy offer given our $80k+ efc.</p>

<p>For all who are evaluating merit aid possibilities, Rensselaer's scholarship total included the $15k/yr Rensselaer Medal which was received junior year and selected by his HS guidance office and a $3k/yr Legacy Scholarship awarded by the RAA and available only to children of alumni. All the others were awarded thrugh the admissions process and based on academic quals.</p>

<p>One final note. Our son got all his apps in very early, in early October. There were postings on CC which indicated that students with comparable "stats" were not offered merit aid by Case. I suspect that the early application figured into this situation. Lesson-Have your students get their applications in as early as possible!!!</p>

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<p>My D's merit packages ranged from 5,000 to 13,000 but out of pocket room and board and tuition ranged from 15,000 to 21,000(the merit was just subtracted from fin aid). Costs of these colleges originally were 36,000 and up.In addition she recieved work study and sub-loans to reduce these costs. This was for private LAC colleges and is not including the disappointing zilch from Pepperdine. Her state honors college was much less but too big for my D's needs. We are lucky however as we have 2 in college , who overlap for 3 years. Each of them will have one more expensive year.</p>

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<p>Our D received a small merit scholarship from Chicago. It was, indeed, just enough to get her in the door. They even offered her $l,000 instead of 2,000 for her National Merit scholarship. I found that Grinnell gives good merit aid, considering that their tuition is less than the other selective LAC's. The small Ohio LAC's like Denison are pretty generous too. The absolute best aid seems to come from the state schools, which can provide free rides to outstanding students. I know OSU and UK are very generous, even to students with lower stats.</p>

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<p>I am going to suggest to non- NYers-please look at the SUNY system. Our OOS tuition is very reasonable. I believe it is under $12,000. If you include R & B the total bill should be around $20,000. SUNY schools offer a fine education. Stony Brook on Long Island is known as being strong in science and good for pre-med. It's also commuting distance (ok an hour or so on the LIRR) to NYC. Binghamton and Geneseo are great schools too. Many NY parents find it hard to justify spending more $, on other OOS universities or private colleges as SUNY schools are academically competitve with Delaware or Maryland (in my opinion) and many other schools that are mentioned on these boards. The biggest drawback for a lot of NY kids is that SUNY schools are in cold, rural areas- but there are a lot of people who pay the big bucks to go to school in cold rural areas (Colgate & Bowdoin). So for those that can deal with that-check out the SUNY.edu website. I too am a big fan of public education. So if money is a major consideration, I suggest you -check out SUNY or other public Universities.</p>

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<p>I think this is a good time of year to bring this post back to life! Some very good points have been made here.</p>

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<p>My older S got good merit aid: Virtually a full ride to an out of state university. He did not apply for need-based aid.</p>

<p>For my younger S, who wants to go to an out of state private university, I'd call good merit aid merit aid that provides at least half of the tutition costs.</p>

<p>S is not eligible for much if any need-based aid, so I would be thrilled if he were to get so much merit aid.</p>

20

<p>My daughter goes to Millikin University, a small private college (probably an LAC) in Decatur, IL, and is on 50% tuition scholarship. Requirements were 27 ACT and top 10% of her class. I have no idea if this qualifies as "good" merit aid, but we're thrilled with it! I do know they have one more scholarship that pays closer to 100% tuition.</p>