Parents Just Lost Job...

Paying for College
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<p>Hi CCers,</p>

<p>I'm a senior applying to a handful of colleges with fairly good stats (statistically good enough for any college, but of course top colleges aren't just based on SATs and grades). My parents have been divorced for a long time, and my custodial parent just lost his/her job. How will this affect me in the college application process? I think most of my schools are need-blind, but will I be able to take advantage of application waivers and such? </p>

<p>Also, should I mention this in applications under the additional information section? I'm not sure if colleges will care too much since my parent only JUST got unemployed. I originally intended to use the additional info section for an activity sheet.</p>

<p>I've always had a sneaking suspicion that this may happen some day, but I feel like the timing occured at the worst possible moment....</p>

<p>Thanks.</p>

<p>EDIT: Sorry if my post is rather blunt or includes questions that can easily be Googled. I was in a rush to make this post...</p>

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<p>I’m not sure how to get application waivers. I think you go through your GC. Use your additional info section for your activities. Leave the financial info for your FAFSA and other financial applications.</p>

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<p>Look at the other thread on this forum that starts “Cringe”. Several posters there with information. Do apply to an array of colleges. You won’t know who will offer what – so your best bet is to keep a WAYYY open mind about where you might go. You do NOT mention this in your applications (your applications are about you, not your parent). </p>

<p>Admissions is one department. Financial Aid is another. So, put your best foot forward for all admissions submissions. If you use the Common Ap, there is a blurb on the site that covers admission fee waivers. Also, read each college’s website carefully as each will address this issue in its own way. </p>

<p>Encourage your parent to work through a draft FAFSA now – it may be smart to pay down debts (such as credit card debt) rather than have a big balance in savings – or there may be other choices that your parent can make this fall that makes your FAFSA numbers better (check out whether parent should enroll in a college class for instance).
Good luck. You are not alone. Many people are navigating this right now. You should find that financial aid offices at the colleges will be happy to explain how their system works. Don’t be afraid to ask.</p>

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<p>Thanks for the replies.</p>

<p>Olymom,
I intended to early decision to a school that is need blind and says it will meet full need. Should I not do so anymore since I could be bound to a financial aid package?</p>

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<p>Wow, I think I would be a smidge cautious here. “Financial Aid” is an umbrella term that includes grants, scholarships and loans. So a school can “meet” your “need” by offering you loans. You don’t want that. You want grants or scholarships. </p>

<p>Look carefully at the “Average debt” for graduating seniors. Please know that, too, can be misleading – after all, some kids come from well blessed homes and will have no debt. Average 3 “zero debts” with one $100,000 debt and you come up with an “Average” of $25000. But you don’t want to be the kid with the $100 K hole. </p>

<p>Please know, also, that the whole system has changed, dramatically, in four years. So the college junior or senior down the street may have gotten good support from Marvelous U — but the incoming freshmen, not so much. </p>

<p>You are caught between two forces: Early decision applications tend to generate a higher rate of acceptance – but then you may be locked into a situation in which you have no room to negotiate (ie, you take what they offer – even if it means tons of loans). </p>

<p>I would encourage you to ask some very direct questions of the college you plan to attend. Alas, they will probably hold their cards close to their chest and advise you to apply and have faith. Actually, I would encourage you to CALL and not email to financial aid. Listen carefully and scribble down the name of the person who takes your call. USe that name several times in the call "Sarah, can you also tell me. . . " sort of thing. What you are doing is personalizing the situation – and you may get hints from the tone of voice just how much sincerity or soap-ola you are being given. You may get some tidbit that tells you meaningful things (as in “We just had a departmental meeting and we are to cut staff by 20%. It looks like things are very grim so I can’t forecast large scholarships for the next class.”). Wow. That sure would be good to know before you commit yourself to ED. </p>

<p>So, you want some gossip. SOON. Can the admissions office put you in touch with some current incoming freshmen? </p>

<p>Because my own family has a very moderate income, I asked our two kiddos to not apply early in the binding fashion because it seemed to give away any negotiation aspects. (I can’t remember the differences between Early Action and Early Decision – and those definitions may have changed). That advice may have hurt the younger son, whose GPA was shakier (although he ended up at a very happy place). </p>

<p>With your strong numbers, I would encourage you to include Dartmouth on your shopping list. They have been very generous with Son #1. He loves it there. You are correct that grades and scores are not enough – so please do consider casting a wide net. There are smaller or lesser known schools that are eager to add a top scorer to their campus. </p>

<p>This is adult life at its most intense. There are tradeoffs for every decision. What is an obvious choice for one student becomes a whole lot fuzzier for another. Please have faith that a good person with a strong work ethic can soar in lots of different habitats. Some students need to stay close to family. Some students need a bustling atmosphere to feel alive. Those sort of things are highly individual – and it is very challenging to sort through the options and the sales pitches to determine what will work for you. But people manage this - mostly well. Good luck!</p>

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<p>*I intended to early decision to a school that is need blind and says it will meet full need. Should I not do so anymore since I could be bound to a financial aid package? *</p>

<p>Which school is this? If it’s a school that also looks at the income of your non-custodial parent (and any new spouse), then that could be a problem. Does your NCP’s family have a good income? Will that person contribute to college?</p>

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<p>Mom2collegekids,
I would be early decisioning to Columbia University. I actually was curious as to whether or not colleges would look at non-custodial parent income. </p>

<p>Olymom,
Thank your encouragement. There were lots of helpful tips I picked up from reading your post. Dartmouth is actually already on my list. I even considered early decisioning there but decided to go for a more selective reach school during the early decision application process.</p>

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<p>Many of the private schools consider non-custodial parent (NCP) income and will expect that parent to contribute to your college expenses. (Those are the CSS/PROFILE schools.) It is possible to get a waiver, but be warned it can be difficult, and you may not know if you get a waiver until next April. The folks I’ve heard of on CC who were successful with NCP waivers were those whose NCP was never in the picture, have not paid child support (and attempts to collect are documented), etc. </p>

<p>There are a number of schools which are FAFSA-only, and they don’t take into account NCP income (though if your custodial parent has remarried, that step parent’s income IS included).</p>

<p>The NCP issue is something you should be concerned about whether or not your custodial parent is employed. If your custodial parent has a house, other property, or other assets, those are factored into the expected family contribution, so even though your parent has lost his/her job, there may still be a sizable contribution expected. Just preparing you for what may come.</p>

<p>Yes, there are schools that meet 100% of need – but the SCHOOL decides what “need” is, not you or your parent. BE SURE you have financial safeties you can afford.</p>

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<p>Columbia requires the CSS Profile. You need to check to see if they require the non-custodial parent profile. I believe they do.</p>

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<p>Be VERY careful about the loans. They could offer you unsubsidised full ride loans with 8% interest. In other words, its like a private loan from a bank, you start paying interest and principal as soon as you made the loan, and it is very costly.</p>

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<p>*Mom2collegekids,
I would be early decisioning to Columbia University. I actually was curious as to whether or not colleges would look at non-custodial parent income. *</p>

<p>Columbia REQUIRES that non-custodial parents (and THEIR spouses) submit financial income and asset information.</p>

<p>If your NCP (or spouse) will not submit that info, then your FA will NOT get processed.</p>

<p>Also, if your NCP’s family has a good income, but that family will not be contributing a fair share towards your education, then do not apply to schools that require NCP info.</p>

<p>Where else are you applying?</p>

<p>What schools are your FINANCIAL safety schools?</p>

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<p>Perhaps now is a great time to meet with NCP and spouse and lay out the hurdles ahead. At this point (October) you can be non judgemental and non demanding. Lay out for them the “rules” of the game – perhaps they would like to meet with you and a financial aid officer of a college together. </p>

<p>Here’s what I know:

  1. many parents are in denial about how the rules work. They think that if they refuse to pay that the kid will be ok (Reality: the kid may be looking at a lifetime of loans)
  2. Many parents don’t understand that “working part time” doesn’t have the buying power it did thirty years ago. Delivering pizza or answering phones for 20 hours a week is enough to pay for a few books – it’s no where near enough to pay tuition or room and board
  3. Many parents don’t get the age rules. You are an adult at age 18 – except you can’t have a beer until age 21 (legally) and you can’t be considered an independent for financial aid purposes until age 24 . There are some exceptions and you should lay them out for both parental units. You can a) join the military or b) be declared a ward of the court --usually because of abuse issues or c) get married. I think if you are a parent yourself might be another one. Anyway, the optional paths are really severe options and they need to know that you don’t get to call yourself independent when you want to. </p>

<p>I highly recommend “How to pay for college without going broke” by Khany. Well worth $40 for each parental household to have a copy. At this point you work to lay out the rules of the game. You will need the tax returns from 2009 and 2010 to complete the FAFSA. Don’t let either household put you off until April 2011 to provide these. You want a “place in line” early and you get that by filling out the FAFSA in January. If the taxes are not done in January (most folks can’t), then ask each parental unit to provide information on each question with their “best estimate”. You can then amend the FAFSA later on when the tax forms are complete. And, yes, the institution you attend WILL ask for copies of both parents tax forms (or, at least, be prepared that they will ask). </p>

<p>Your best approach right now is along the lines of “Wow, this is coming and there’s lots to learn to get the most dollars possible. Please help me figure all this out so we’re all happy!” – which enlists all family members as allies. That’s a whole lot better than screaming “you owe me!” later – or having horrendous bills and no communication or understanding going as you try to register for classes. </p>

<p>Again, good luck.</p>

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<p>Oops. I am mixing forms. I think it is the CSS profile that requires info from both parental households.</p>

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<p>Yes, I think the CSS requires the NCP’s information. Thank you Olymom!</p>

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<p>“If your NCP (or spouse) will not submit that info, then your FA will NOT get processed.”</p>

<p>This is very important. Get your NCP on board. The custodial parent will fill out their CSS first and then College Board will prompt the NCP (usually by email if provided) to file the NCP Profile. Neither parent has access to the others’ financial information (this is often a concern).</p>

<p>“Also, if your NCP’s family has a good income, but that family will not be contributing a fair share towards your education, then do not apply to schools that require NCP info.”</p>

<p>I would recommend you apply to financial safeties (FAFSA only school perhaps?) in addition to the schools requiring NCP Profile. In my experience a lot of NCP’s don’t contribute a “fair share” and yet a lot of kids still attend Profile schools. Being a top student will help! Good luck.</p>

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<p>To add to Olymom’s list…</p>

<p>4) Many parents don’t realize that ivies don’t give merit scholarships since all of their students have high stats…so their own child’s stats are not unique at those schools.</p>

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<p>Once again, thank you for all the replies. I’ve learned a lot, mainly about the NCP situation. However, I have another question:</p>

<p>I’ve read that students are afraid that admissions office will recognize that a student needs aid and will thus will be less inclined to accept a student. After all, financial aid comes out of a college’s own pockets. </p>

<p>With that in mind, will putting down “Unemployed” for my CP’s occupation, in combination with the fact that my CP does not have a college degree and, thus, no marketable skills, hurt my chances at acceptance?</p>

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<p>I would recommend you apply to financial safeties (FAFSA only school perhaps?) in addition to the schools requiring NCP Profile. </p>

<p>Be careful applying to FAFSA only schools; most don’t meet need. Only consider those that give big assured merit and maybe a couple with competitive merit. Don’t only rely on those with competitive merit. Those often require interviews which sometimes can’t be accommodated because of travel costs or conflicts with one’s personal schedule. Also, you may not get awarded a competitive scholarship. </p>

<p>*
In my experience a lot of NCP’s don’t contribute a “fair share” and yet a lot of kids still attend Profile schools.*</p>

<p>It’s not as simple as that…</p>

<p>This may be true, but not because the school has covered the NCP’s share. Sometimes the NCP’s share is rather small, so their share can be covered with a federal student loan or by payment or loan from the CP’s family/relatives. </p>

<p>The real problem can be when the NCP…</p>

<p>1) has a high income, but won’t pay anything or won’t pay a fair share based on income/assets)</p>

<p>2) won’t fill out the paperwork</p>

<p>3) fills out the paperwork the first year or so, but won’t do it for a later year. </p>

<p>4) contributes a fair share the first year or so, but won’t pay for a later year. </p>

<p>These last 2 examples would be especially upsetting because the student or custodial parent has to take on a big private loan or the student has to leave the school. At this point, the student can’t go back and grab one of the big merit scholarships that was offered as an incoming freshman.</p>

<p>If I was a student with a NCP that is expected to contribute, I wouldn’t pick such a school unless I was very confident that the NCP would contribute a fair share all 4 years.</p>

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<p>*will putting down “Unemployed” for my CP’s occupation, in combination with the fact that my CP does not have a college degree and, thus, no marketable skills, hurt my chances at acceptance? *</p>

<p>It shouldn’t be a problem at Columbia. The people who decide to accept you don’t have your financial info. Others can correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think they see “parent occupation” either. As for “no college degree”…that doesn’t NOT necessarily mean “no marketable skills” at all!!! Many people don’t have college degrees but they are earning very good incomes and are skilled at what they do. (You don’t only get skills from a college!)</p>

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<p>M2K regarding applying to colleges requiring NCP info I was just speaking from my personal experience having dealt with FAFSA, CSS and the NCP. If I had taken your advice back when not to apply to schools that require NCP info my D1 would not be at the college she is attending. I believe there should be a balance for finances in applications but that doesn’t rule out ALL colleges that require NCP info. Some of them may be surprisingly generous to a high stats kid that they want. We found that to be true in a surprising number of cases. BTW even if the NCP IS required to pay some amount it doesn’t mean they will without a court battle. Trust me - again from personal experience.</p>