<p>Don’t know anything about Canadian schools other than what my cousin who’s in a major West Coast company said about Waterloo - he said their comp sci students were as good as from any US program.</p>
<p>Just as in the US, class size varies by school, by program and by year in program. You’ll have to look into that when you’re looking at schools. When we were looking at schools for our son (STEM major), class sizes were smaller than the US schools he was considering and there was far greater contact with professors in the Canadian programs.</p>
<p>HokiesfN I think you nailed it because just as in the States it all depends on where you go and your major. Where I live our local U has 36,000 students so the class size will definitely be different than where she goes now with only 5,000.</p>
<p>Redpoint–not sure about all majors but my D had to write a personal statement when she applied 4 years ago for her Bachelors at all U’s in Canada and the USA. Because we don’t have the hype on sports and sororities our schools do focus more on grades. </p>
<p>The more I think of it the more I realize there’s a big difference, many colleges in the US that I have seen are basically communities on their own whereas here they become more a part of the local community. For example we have regular housing (not student) mixed right in the middle of our local campus. I wonder if students coming to Canada may find it harder because they must become very independent early on. </p>
<p>I firmly believe we have as good of a college /university level of education as in the States but unfortunately we are not as well known and with the difficulties involved in cross border employment the connection you make are very important.</p>
<p>Redpoint, my wife is Canadian and we live in the US so our kids are dual citizens. We have a house in Quebec and lots of relatives all over Canada. My daughter only applied to Canadian universities because she hated the pressure of the US process and the Canadian schools except for Queens and I think McGill just look at grades and scores. She did a summer science program at Mount Allison and we did a big tour (McGill, Queens, Acadia, Mount Allison, Dalhousie, Kings, and someplace else that escapes me at the moment). We didn’t look at Toronto (too big) or McMaster. Many of the large Canadian schools (e.g. Toronto or I think UBC) take a big class and then weed out. Queens describes itself as rectangular (we try to take people who will thrive here and help them succeed) compared to schools they describe as triangular or pyramidal (can’t recall). Every school we visited except McGill told ShawD she was certain to get in and the only thing that was uncertain was merit aid (called scholarships in Canada).</p>
<p>She only applied to Mount Allison and Queens. I really like Mount Allison (I’m not sure I’m the person on here who is the Mt. A supporter) but it is small and reasonably well-thought of. However, it is in the middle of no place (basically at the tip of the Bay of Fundy). ShawD loved her summer there but when she visited during the academic year, she realized there were basically no Jews there and in her words, she’s not that “outdoorsy a girl.” Otherwise she loved it. </p>
<p>Based on the social fit, she chose Queens, and loved parts of it. The social life was really good and she really enjoyed the Jewish life. She was enrolled to study biology and all of her classes except for a language elective were really big. Profs didn’t really know you (and switched quarterly in full year courses). It was basically a lecture/lab/exam format. In some of her classes, she was a strong student but would get a 90 on the exam which had a median grade of 62 and some kid, who in the US would have gone to MIT would get 100. The grading was done without a curve and thus was tough for a student who was good but not the best.</p>
<p>However, during orientation, she ran into a girl who was studying nursing. ShawD is both very social and a more hands-on kind of learner and thought nursing would be better for her than biology as she didn’t want to spend her life in labs. She called and asked how I would feel if she switched to nursing. After her thoughtful rationale for doing so, I said, fine. However, at Queens she couldn’t switch even though they were still in drop-add period because she had been admitted to the Faculty of Science and was told she’d have to reapply for the Faculty of Nursing. And, if she stayed a year, she’d get very little transfer credit even though she was taking bio, chem, calculus, and psychology. So, she decided to apply to transfer and got into a very good school in Boston for the second semester. Interestingly, to get grades (4 of her 5 courses were full-year courses and she had to supply first term grades which they had to make up because they weren’t assigning grades mid-year), she had to go to professors who really had no idea who she was. Mount Allison would have been quite different, but they don’t have a nursing program (I don’t think). So, all ended well and she is in a program with guaranteed admission to a nurse practitioner masters as long as she maintains as B+ in her courses (she’s got all A’s at her current school). She’s very happy.</p>
<p>I really appreciate all your insight and experiences. Thanks.</p>
<p>McGill is a big fan of APs since the vast majority of in-province students (who still makes up more than half of the student body) come from CEGEPs, which covers material that are seen elsewhere in first year in an U (or the “U0” year as McGill calls it).</p>
<p>In Canada, only UBC, to my knowledge, looks at ECs and essays.</p>
<p>My D is looking at a graduate program at Queens. Does anyone have any insight into graduate education in Canada? We know exactly nothing.</p>
<p>We’ve recently learned about King’s College Halifax. It’s a tiny LAC with a Great Books program for first year students. It partners with Dalhousie University, right next door, so that King’s upperclassmen can major in anything they want. I did notice that merit aid is year-by-year. You might earn something called an “Entrance Scholarship” your first year but it does not carry over into subsequent years. There are scholarships awarded to upperclassmen based on their performance at University. We have not been able to visit, but the website has lots of videos, FWIW. I do worry about the lack of networking opportunities post-college (for a U.S. student).</p>
<p>Here’s a link to a full list of Canadian colleges: [Canadian</a> Universities – Uopoly.com | University List](<a href=“http://www.uopoly.com/list-of-canadian-universities/]Canadian”>http://www.uopoly.com/list-of-canadian-universities/)</p>
<p>If you click on the name of the college, you get more info, including undergrad and grad tuition. Some of them have amazingly low grad tuition.</p>
<p>McGill is a great school, but apparently it’s taking a big budget cut. I have no idea what its overall budget is, but a $143 million cut for the last 4 months of the year sounds drastic, especially since its costs for that period are already budgeted for and in many cases under contract.</p>
<p>[url=<a href=“Home | Montreal Gazette | Montreal Gazette”>Home | Montreal Gazette | Montreal Gazette]McGill</a> University lambastes Parti Qu</p>
<p>redpoint, I was born in the U.S., married a Canadian, and have lived on both sides of the border as an adult but far more time in Canada. My Ds all have dual citizenship as well. Two attended college in the U.S., Princeton and NYU, and the other three attend/ed Univ. of Toronto. </p>
<p>Firstly, don’t concern yourself too much with individual class size. There are certainly some large first year lecture courses in some faculties, not all but some, but the upper year classes are much smaller with seminar courses very commonly in the <20 number. Depending what your child wants to study, he/she may never have a class that exceeds 50, even in first year. Some science classes are large but these, too, tend to shrink in upper year levels. Not unlike any U.S. large research university.</p>
<p>All Canadian unversities are public, and heavily subsidized by general tax revenues to keep tuition levels down. In the past, international students didn’t pay extra but they do now, and have for some time. The admissions process is much simpler, and much more sane here than in the U.S. In Ontario, a central umbrella-type organization handles all applications. You can google OUAC and have a look around. It will give you links to the websites of all Ontario schools. There is a variety of size, even within this province, from smaller schools like Trent and Brock to mid-sized schools like Queen’s up to the large schools like U of T. There are differences in the ease of admission, although some are subtle, but you will get a good education at all Canadian schools. The variances aren’t as large as they tend to be in the U.S., much like Canadian society itself! :)</p>
<p>Generally speaking, having experienced the education systems in both countries, and knowing many people who have spent time in Canada then returning to the U.S., our kids tend to be a bit ahead and I agree that most Canadian high school courses for kids going on to college are at a very similar level to the AP or IB courses. This may not be universally true but it’s been our experience. </p>
<p>Mt. Allison is certainly known in Canada but it is VERY small and in the middle of nowhere. It does not have much appeal for the majority of Canadian students. This reminds me to mention that transportation to and from wherever you live should be investigated for the schools in which you’re interested, obviously in the same way you would if they were going halfway across the U.S. to school.</p>
<p>The weather may be an issue for some who are from southern California or the deep south but Toronto, for example, will have similar weather patterns to Boston, for instance. And in the past few years, we’ve had far less snow and cold weather than where I grew up in south Jersey! We’re prepared for it, too, so it isn’t an issue. Montreal has more snow and is generally colder than Toronto. Kingston (Queen’s) is colder and snowier and gets a good amount of freezing rain. It’s a beautiful setting, though, right on Lake Ontario and a nice small city, not really a town. Queen’s is an excellent school with a lovely campus and a great reputation in Canada. They have a progam that allows for one year of study at their ‘castle’ location in the UK. It’s also a very, very enthusiastic school spirit type school.</p>
<p>One comment I’ll make about U of T about the size. U of T is set up on the college basis, which determines what residence you live in, what dining hall you frequent, etc. Each has its own activities, student government, scholarships, dean of students, and a unique experience. It doesn’t affect what courses your child can take because the full complement of all of the school’s course offerings are available to all U of T students. It’s a great system. Students can live in residence all four years if they choose and if they aren’t on academic probation. This brings up the college experience issue - U of T offers over 300 different clubs,activities, sports in which students can become involved. There certainly isn’t a lack of involvement for those who are looking for that experience.</p>
<p>Macleans is an interesting read but keep in mind that not all Canadian schools still provide stats and details for the report, so I wouldn’t allow it to affect your decision to any great extent.</p>
<p>You’ll find students at both ends of the political spectrum at Canadian schools but it’s true that Canadians tend to be more left-leaning than the U.S. We are a much more multicultural society, we are not as obsessed/focussed on religion as Americans can be, we are appreciative of our universal healthcare, great public school system, and our social safety net, and are clearly willing to pay higher taxes to fund those systems. </p>
<p>Don’t kid yourself that there’s no binge drinking in Canada. Kids who are going to abuse alcohol will do it regardless of the country. The difference we’ve seen, though, is that kids are able to drink legally and thus, those who are going to drink socially and be responsible, are able to do so legally at a younger age. It tends to eliminate a lot of the pre-drinking that many students do prior to going out to an event. </p>
<p>As for Canadian kids being more worldly, I think that, generally speaking, that is true. Most kids we know have travelled extensively and, of course, I don’t know even one Canadian who hasn’t been to the U.S. I can’t say that the reverse of that is true of the Americans I know. I’m not sure that Canadians are more friendly, I really see friendly people wherever I go, but I have heard many Americans say that. Canada is a wonderful country, and, compared to the U.S., has very little poverty and also very little crime. </p>
<p>My Ds chose different paths - a teacher, an actor/playwright, a social worker, a lawyer and a med student. All have received a good education. The two who headed to U.S. schools did so for a particular reason/program. We have not seen a demonstrable difference in the quality of education between the American schools they attended and the one that their sisters attended here.</p>
<p>If I can be of any assistance with specific questions, please ask. I always recommend visiting. I think it’s a good idea for any student who is going to be away from home for four years.</p>
<p>In Quebec, the proposed budget cuts of $143 are the total cuts for all universities. McGill’s cut is estimated at $17 million. There will likely be much protest about this, with administrators and students joining together. The current PQ government in its brief tenure has a tendency to reverse itself.</p>
<p>zoosermom, I just realized that I didn’t comment on your question. The OUAC site that I previously mentioned also is used for the grad degree in Education, for law schools and for med schools in Ontario. Other grad programs are applied to directly to the particular schools. I’m sure you and your D have seen this page…</p>
<p>[For</a> International Students | Queen’s University](<a href=“http://www.queensu.ca/apply/international]For”>Students | International | Queen's University)</p>
<p>Has she visited? Queen’s is a great school. I don’t personally know anyone who went there who didn’t love it. Very strong alumni network all over the world, and more school spirit than I think I’ve ever seen from any school, anywhere. If you get Queen’s grads of any age, or graduating faculty, together and one of them happens to mention Oil Thigh, they all immediately go into the chant and dance that all Queen’s students learn in their Frosh Week orientation. It is the anthem that although the official title is Queen’s College Colors, is universally known as Oil Thigh. It was written by some students at Queen’s in the 1890s. Lots of international students attend Queen’s, just like U of T and McGill. If she’d like to be put in touch with a current or recent grad student there, let me know.</p>
<p>This is a bit of an old thread but I am bumping it in case there are any parents out there looking at Canadian schools. My son is going to attend Queen’s University next year for engineering, and it really seems like a great fit. He was a competitive applicant (SAT 2230, top-rated high school, etc) and was accepted at some very selective US engineering schools. However, we were really impressed with the engineering school at Queen’s. More than any school we visited, they could really communicate a vision for engineering education, and there is a lot of collaborative, hands-on work (they have a design project in each year) which really suits my son. They have a very high graduation rate in the engineering school (90 percent), which I take as a sign that they are also doing something right. Besides which, the extracurricular scene is really active, the campus is picturesque, and the city of Kingston has great architecture, shops, and restaurants (with a bit of a British vibe, from the perspective of an American). To top if off, compared to a lot of the US schools to which he was applying, Queen’s is notably less expensive. So, he’s going to venture north next year!</p>
<p>I should also add that everyone we have communicated with at Queen’s has been SUPER responsive, whether in the engineering department, admissions, or finances. </p>
<p>There’s been very little mention of Simon Fraser U. Any thoughts, comments, raves, caveats…?</p>
<p>I thought I’d chime in here as I have a few close friends attending Canadian schools.</p>
<p>Canadian schools are generally quite easy to get into. Most are solely marks based and those that do have broad based admissions usually weigh those quite low. As Americans, I do not see you having problems with the broad based admissions part. I would think a 3.7+ would probably guarantee acceptance into most Canadian schools.</p>
<p>It is true that it is harder to ‘stay in’. Colleges in US are usually more lenient, giving more A grades. In Canada, most of the large research Universities (McGill, UofT, UBC) will keep class averages at around 65-72%. This is around a C+ to B- range (Its about a GPA 2.xx/4.00). A simple google search of “UofT hard” will reveal this. All my friends who have gone to UofT constantly complain about this. Probably less than 0.5% of people from UofT will graduate with a 4.0. Apparently, a 3.7 at UofT means you are the top 15% of your school. Class averages usually increase in higher level courses. </p>
<p>Also, class sizes will be large. If you go to UofT life sciences, you’ll most likely have lectures at con hall which has a capacity of 1500+. The professor will likely not know your name, and it can be hard to build relationship with faculty if you are an average student.</p>
<p>Future more, I would assume there is greater failure rates and higher attrition rates at Canadian universities. At UWaterloo, for example, if you fail a term (in engineering), you will have to wait a year before repeating that term. For waterloo engineering, you fail a term if you receive less than 60% in your average that term. Other univerisities are less strict. However, most 1st and 2nd year classes will have fail rates of approx 5%-20%.</p>
<p>The smaller, or lesser known universities might be easier to get marks. Universities like guelph, mcmaster. (SFU has grade deflation, it’s quite difficult to get good marks there).</p>
<p>TLDR: Marks are harder to come by, might affect future options.</p>
<p>I graduated from U of T life sciences. I never had a lecture in Convocation Hall. Most of my classes were 10-50 students. U of T’s return rate after 1st year is 92% which is higher than other Ontario universities. The return rate seems to correlate with selectivity - higher selectivity = higher return rate. Do a search for common data set Ontario. </p>
<p>I also went to Queen’s. Hated it. Kingston is a hick town. </p>
<p>What made you hate Queen’s, bouders?
Is the grade deflation in U of T a myth or is it reality? How hard is it to get graduate with distinction or high distinction from U of T? Would doing pre-med at U of T cut your chances of entering med school as opposed to doing pre-med at UWO or Queen’s or some other easier school?</p>
<p>Yes, doing pre-med at UofT would definitely hurt your chances. Even if you get high distinction (which by a quick google search is 3.5+ at UofT), it still looks worse than say a 3.8 from UWO (which is much easier to get).</p>
<p>And yes, grade deflation is a very real at UofT. I wouldn’t ‘really’ call it grade deflation though. Prof’s usually won’t curve you down, but rather just give extremely difficult exams.</p>
<p>“What made you hate Queen’s, bouders?
Is the grade deflation in U of T a myth or is it reality? How hard is it to get graduate with distinction or high distinction from U of T? Would doing pre-med at U of T cut your chances of entering med school as opposed to doing pre-med at UWO or Queen’s or some other easier school?”</p>
<p>I had been living at U of T prior to Queen’s. U of T has a lot of social activities on and off campus. My professional program at Queen’s had no social activities. There were no restaurants, no parties, nothing available off campus. No malls, no shopping, no cultural activities. Grocery shopping required a bus or a taxi. I was spat on when I got out of the car. I was miserable there and should have left sooner. </p>
<p>UWO and Queen’s have similar grade cutoffs for admission as U of T St. George. I would not expect it to be easier to get higher grades than U of T.</p>
<p>I’m a classic example of - you will be more successful if you are happy at the university you are attending. I disliked Queen’s the moment I step foot on campus. My mistake was not listening to my gut. </p>