A few thoughts in my head,
particularly about the challenges of the college AFTER you’re accepted.
DS2022 is a Freshman at a challenging college.
While son seems to be doing great in many classes (topics he enjoys such as Differential Equations), he seems to be struggling with Principles of Microeconomics. He’s thinking of dropping the class…
Recently, I’ve read a few posts on Reddit where the students at DS2022’s college saying they want to quit, transfer, something because they can’t hack it there. Getting C’s-D’s or Failing, even studying 60-75 hours a week, just can’t catch up, etc, feeling like a failure, etc.
So in comparison, I think my son is doing ok.
Then I read some other Reddit posts about some applicants with a few B’s in Pre-Calc, etc,
and after reading the C’s-Failing Reddit posts, I think about WHY you would want to attend a challenging college where you’ll be struggling most of the time, and feeling defeated.
While I don’t want an “easy party college” for DD2024, I also don’t want her to not do well academically and feeling like a failure, in comparison to her classmates.
I’m sure you’ve watched this Malcolm Gladwell Tedtalk on why it can be very hamful for college applicants to “shoot too high.”
My husband and I both went to MIT and our S24 has always until this year said that’s where he wanted to go, too. But….we know him and (besides the fact he couldn’t get in; I’m not sure husband or I could get in if we applied these days!) he would be SO UNHAPPY there. He isn’t driven to understand the intricacies of ideas & processes; he doesn’t get joy out of understanding how various forces work in concert and produce a beautiful system of equations; he would never choose to study rather than play because he really wants to understand something.
He is very capable, and he will do well at whatever he decides to eventually do. But MIT would never be right for him. He cares about doing his best, but he is in no way a striver or a go-getter. Some other schools wouldn’t be right for him because he isn’t interested in image/connections; and still others are a wrong fit because he (I think) needs a low-key social atmosphere.
We are working hard to try to find schools where he will be appropriately challenged, where he will have the space and resources to grow in the ways he needs to grow, and where he will be happy as he does those things. Most (all?) “prestigious” school don’t fit that, even if he could get in.
I’ve watched that video before. It’s pretty great and makes excellent points which most of the prestige-chasing crowd don’t realize.
I don’t want anybody to take this the wrong way, but I just don’t want my kid going to a school that’s full of neurotic anxiety-filled head cases who are ready to go jump off a building because they didn’t get straight A’s. So a place like Yale, Middlebury, Stanford, etc would never work.
What fits best for one kid won’t work for another kid.
At the same time, I also find it mildly annoying hearing comments from people I run into IRL when they assume that a school must be bad if they haven’t ever heard of it.
This is why my D22 took Swarthmore off her list - she didn’t want to go where kids were described as academically intense. She wanted an intellectual atmosphere where classes were interesting but wasn’t interested in academic intensity or stress. A lot of schools were off the table from the get go. She knew that about herself fortunately and no one pushed her otherwise.
Can I know why the education system is making things so competitive. Is this a business? Why do kids have to be a Mother Theresa/Malala to study what they want to? Starting from high school, why one has to choose the subjects, why can’t they have a common curriculum that every kid should do and learn the basic concepts required for higher education. I strongly feel the curriculum is what is making things competitive and mental stress.
Piggybacking off of this again because I had another thought about this…
D24’s HS has a really collaborative culture. I think this is why D24 seemed to really like Austin College and Southwestern Univ. Some in the “chasing prestige” camp could end up looking at colleges like this as hand-holding, babying, butt-wiping, etc. But we definitely did not get a “butt wiping” vibe from the schools.
D24 also wants to go to a school where the students seem happy. Where they talk to each other. Interact with each other. Not where it’s super mega intense and everybody is just faking it in acting like they’re just fine.
I’m not sure that the education system is making things so competitive. I think that it’s a certain set of the population that wants to go to the most “prestigious” places. When it’s a USNWR “top” school or if a ranking lists it as “top” in the specific field, they perhaps feel some combination of 1) they get to put the bumper sticker on the car, wear the swag, brag on social media that’s where they (or their kid) go, and/or 2) that if they get into a “top” institution that they’re punching their ticket for a very financially successful life. I suspect that it’s more of #2 than #1, but I think #1 definitely contributes. What those people fail to realize is that most students at the “top” colleges go on to live perfectly ordinary lives and that alumni from non-“top” names can become very financially successful as well. With a small number of exceptions, one’s post-graduate options are not defined (or limited) by where one goes to college.
I really think it has so much more to do with the person than the school. I went to MIT and I am (and have been since my oldest was born when I was 26) a stay at home mom. Of the people I was close friends with at MIT, many of them have spent some time as a SAHM or SAHD. Those people are now librarians, lawyers, teachers. My best friend from college is a fancy, high-power surgeon, though. And a woman from my boarding high school, who is a year younger than me with a very similar background to mine and also went to MIT, is a successful Silicon Valley venture capitalist.
But the most successful person I know well is someone who attended my rural, podunk high school (before I went to boarding school). He went to a non-flagship state school, unexpectedly got married freshman year , and is now the VP of a very successful international company.
I think personality, values, and luck have more to do with one’s career trajectory than where one goes to college.
Some frustrating news but also some really awesome news to share with y’all:
FRUSTRATING:
D24 (not only kid in her class screwing this up, I learned) missing several French HW workbook assignments. She can still turn them in for late credit, but that gets you a 70% on it, not 100%. So 7 out of 10 points at max. AAAHHH!!!
because of the above, I lost my cool and yelled at her a lot during drive home from school.
Barked at her about the same lecture we’ve given her regularly for the last couple of years, but this time, I changed it up a bit. Reminded her/yelled at her that in a month, she’ll be a senior in HS…that she’s gotten to see some really great colleges that have some really great opportunities over this past month, and how much scholarship money she gets and whether or not she gets into those schools will be entirely based on her and how much effort she puts in over these next 3.5-4 weeks. I told her that I’m now officially done with telling her what to do in the studying department…it’s up to her. Reminded/yelled at her that Mom & Dad aren’t going to college w/her, the professors won’t give a rip if you do the assignment or not, they won’t be calling you to remind you to turn in your HW, they won’t be giving credit for late assignments, papers, HWs, etc. And yelled at her that I’m here to support her however she needs, but now SHE needs to decide how to proceed forward…IT’S ALL UP TO YOU, KIDDO! SO POOP OR GET OFF THE POT! SUCK IT UP AND STOP SCREWING AROUND!
AAAAAAHHHHHHH!!!
POSITIVE:
But as a result of the above, D24 decided to swear off Youtube, TV, etc. except for short study breaks (5-10 min every hr) + 15-20 min before bed time between now and her last final exam.
Right after dinner, she hit the books straight away and worked on HW & studying until 10:00 pm. Took a shower, then watched videos for 15 min and went to bed.
I told the French teacher about how we’re having D24 use the Modern States French lessons online as an additional means of prepping for the AP exam. French teacher asked for more info, so sent her the links + a link to the “Your College Bound Kid” podcast episode where they interviewed a senior director from Modern States. French teacher said that our school system now doesn’t start French until 8th grade (not 7th grade), and that the AP French exam is really hard to pass…so she’s looking for extra ways of helping reinforce the material since they now have 1 less school year to get all of the French info in the students’ heads.
D24 heard back from In & Out Burger. There’s a 2nd application online to now fill out and then they’ll contact her about an interview!! And their starting rate is $18/hr. Way better than the $13.85/hr that Burlington Coat Factory wants to pay people.
D24 got an email today from the U of A Summer Scrubs Program. She’s been on the wait list. And now she’s moving OFF THE WAIT LIST because THEY HAVE A SPOT AVAILABLE FOR HER TO ATTEND THE CAMP!!! Mon-Fri residential camp. You stay in the ASU-Downtown dorms and do labs and all sorts of interactive stuff all week at the camp with 24 other HS kids. I AM SO OVER THE MOON THRILLED FOR D24 ABOUT THIS! Sent her a text msg…she’ll see that in about 3 hr during her lunch period.
Calculus teacher is giving students a way to eliminate your lowest test score. You have to watch all of her lectures online on AP Classroom, takes notes on them, turn in the notes to the teacher. So D24 started on that last night.
Is the Summer Scrubs the one-week program (still needs a job) or the multi-week one (no expectations for additional job)? And wow, $18/hour at In-n-Out! That’s awesome!!!
the 1 week program. But it still was a competitive application. You couldn’t just pay a fee and automatically sign up. It was like a mini-college application process.
I agree many see it as a pathway to financial security; however, I think there are plenty of students who thrive in a hyper-competitive environment and seek out that type of environment. I know my DS for example, completely different from my DD, thrives on academic competition just like athletic. His academic performance is absolutely more enjoyable and performance improved by going head to head in a classroom. My DD on other hand has completely opposite feelings.
That’s a great teacher! Few things are more irrelevant to most people’s lives post-college (or sooner) than Calculus… including the lives of most working engineers. Yet such a big deal is made about it for college admissions. Like if someone were to decide that “excellence in Haiku poetry” should be one of the pillars of the college admission process.
So this teacher promotes improved understanding of the material, minus a penalty for whatever the student’s weakest conceptual/computational spot is. For me it was “Related Rates” (for no particular reason). I managed to earn my keep just the same, in a working world which is surprisingly related-rates free : )
Ha! I made it all the way to 29 before making the switch (my engineer wife was earning a bunch more than me, so she kept working ; ). First it was the baby, and later aging parents. I have the same observation as you from my engineering class reunions: We are academically-accomplished people leading distinctly ordinary lives… and that’s how we like it. The few who wanted to “make their mark” headed off into money management or whatever. I wish them well.
In terms of upper engineering management at various companies, when you go peeking at bios their undergrad engineering was just as likely to have been completed at the lesser-known campus of State U (or some place I’ve simply never heard of) as at an Ivy/Top 20. A particular college/program can help facilitate what an individual is on their way to accomplishing… but that’s all.
D24 now has an interview at In & Out Burger on Sunday morning!
And she learned yesterday that there’s another extra credit opportunity in Calculus…you get extra points if you complete 1 MCQ section of a practice AP test on AP Classroom. D24 said, “So, I’m DEFINITELY doing that!”
, and is now the VP of a very successful international company.
