Both of my girls did ballet 15-20 hrs a week on top of their AP and IB courses. They often had dance lessons from 5-9 and all day Saturday, so they’ve had to plan ahead. They often had syllabus of their courses in the beginning semester, and they knew what papers and tests they had to be prepared for. If they didn’t spend that much time in dance, they would have had time for part time jobs, because of that I gave them monthly allowance for their incidentals.
If your kid can’t do anything else (work or ECs) because of APs, then one has wonder if your kid could handle college and I am sure adcoms would look at that way too. I think that’s why adcoms look at the rigor of course work AND ECs/jobs.
So many expectations for this generation.
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If teachers would hand kids a list on Friday of everything that’s going to be due by the next Friday, a lot more kids could work or become involved in time-consuming ECs because they could plan their time. I see this as a logistical problem at the schools rather than a failure on the part of the student. There are only so many hours in a day.
I would still make an exception, though, for kids in atypically demanding academic programs such as IB. There are only so many hours in a day, and IB tends to eat up almost all of them. One of the things you sacrifice in order to attend unusually demanding high school programs is the opportunity to work – and it really is a sacrifice. I think that kids learn things on the job that they couldn’t learn elsewhere.
@Marian college doesn’t always give you that much notice either. I had a paper assigned one Friday and due the following monday. That wasn’t the only time something like that happened, and I’ve only been here 4 weeks.
I’ll have finished 12 APs by the time I graduate, and between sports and homework, there’s no way I could work during the school year. However, I work seasonally at a baseball stadium during the summer. I earned about $1100, plenty for things like homecoming and going out with friends, and that was in a state where the minimum wage is $7.25.
Muy oldest worked starting at 16. Only one night (food service) of the weekend during the school year but more often during breaks. This while achieving straight As in a competitive school, playing a sport every season and doing an EC that was his prime focus and interest, and got plenty of sleep. To me learning about work is extremely important. Learning how to manage money is so important. But my oldest was able to do this because of excellent excellent time management skills. Also School comes very easily to him. Eventually my youngest will also work, but may have to give up an EC in order to do so because school does not come as easily and the time management is not as good there.
Every child and family is different. In my family working is part of our DNA and being hard working is a very important value. Learning how to manage a schedule, deal with a boss, learn about different people outside the school bubble are all key things a teen gets from working - in addition to the obvious of being able to manage your own money and understand the value of a dollar. The best light bulb moment comes when your child gets their first paycheck and says ** “what’s FICA? And why are they taking my money?”** :))
@oldfort I don’t think anyone on this thread said their kids can’t find time for ECs on top of APs, so there probably aren’t any real concerns about college readiness.
My older kid found that she has much more free time in college. This semester, she has almost all classes on Tuesday thru Thursday and one class on Monday night. So, basically a four-day weekend with a full course load.
We paid for a car, insurance, cell phone and gas at least back and forth to school (it was a 40 minute ride to school). The kids used their summer pay for entertainment and other costs throughout the year. We did help out with things like homecoming/prom dresses, tux rentals, and the like, and they could do extra work around the house outside of normal chores to earn additional money.
It was important to me that the kids work hourly wage jobs - that is a real wake-up call. They then think differently about that expensive Starbucks drink or continually incurring ATM fees because they didn’t plan ahead. As soon as they started working I opened joint checking accounts with them so they could learn to manage their money - while in high school I had full access to make sure they were being responsible and provide guidance. In college they’ve got their own accounts and have done fine with finances.
The kids did different jobs - working at Scout camp, a meat market, for the local baseball team. All these jobs were summer only, which meant we didn’t have conflicts with work when the kids had to travel to games/meets, Model UN trips, standardized exams or activities like Prom and Homecoming.
I had to work as many hours as possible during high school and college to help pay household bills as my mother struggled after her divorce. The only way I was able to attend college was on a full tuition academic scholarship, living at home, and working off-campus.
One of my goals in life was to make sure my kids did well in school, but also had time to have fun and enjoy life - while still learning to be responsible citizens. I did not want them to have the same experiences I did. I’m proud of the fact they prefer to earn their own spending money while in school and are planning ahead for when they graduate.
Our DD2, a senior, is currently taking 5 AP’s, plays two varsity sports and has a PT job that is fairly light on hours. She worked more in the summer but felt some work experience was important and she wanted $$ for her entertainment budget and gas. This has been a pretty typical schedule throughout high school. Older DD only worked weekends but also had 11 AP’s thru HS and two sports plus Choir. There have been some tough nights but time management skills increase and they have been able to mostly handle it in stride. Oldest would agree that college is significantly lighter workload than HS. each class has some more work but only 5 classes has made it seem pretty easy so far.
Whether it is possible for a student to have a job and take AP classes at the same time depends a lot on the AP course demands. By this, I don’t mean the level of effort that would be required to get a 5 on the AP exam, or even to score well inside the 5 range, but rather how much extra homework and projects are loaded on top of that. Some schools place exorbitant time demands in order to ensure that the maximum fraction of the class passes. For example, my nephew went to a school where AP calculus was two periods, one of them outside the regular time frame for school (I have forgotten whether it was before school or after school, but it met every day and was mandatory), and then there was extensive homework as well. The AP Calc teacher at QMP’s high school said that there would be 2 hours of homework every night, just for that class.
If a student has an extracurricular that takes 15-20 hours a week (like oldfort’s daughters), I do not think that a job would be possible in addition, unless the school was really sensible about the time demands for the AP courses.
Mine has a part-time job. It’s not much of a choice. Between her job and her dance schedule, she doesn’t get home until 9 most nights and sometimes doesn’t get to bed until 2. You do what you have to do.
Our Senior daughter does not have a formal job out-of-school. She survived 5 AP classes in Junior year - including Calc BC, Physics and Chemistry - while participating in cross country, marching band, wind ensemble and track. As a distance runner with All-State performances, she runs with her team 5-6 days/40+ miles a week, 48-weeks out of the year. Band leadership requires a summer camp, and there’s daily before school rehearsals during the school year. Both require travel for meets and marching competitions and schedules vary more widely than most employers would deem acceptable.
She’s in an honors program incorporated with a general curriculum high school. Some of the honors kids have side gigs teaching music or tutoring. Many of her friends that aren’t maxed out on APs have part time jobs. Her extracurricular activities have more commitment than most full-time jobs. With college tuition being so insanely high, we’re comfortable that the right school will see the potential in a student that can balance academics and athletics at a high level and reward her with merit aid. She’s also in the athletic recruiting process with her eyes on Division I schools for their varied science offerings. Combined merit aid and potential athletic aid is more money than she could have made in a minimum wage, part-time job. She’s not planning on attending Ivy schools and can take her AP 4/5 scores to a University or less selective College knowing that she’ll have credits available for a double major and a start in higher level chemistry classes with potential to do undergrad research.
As a parent, I value the discipline that making and managing money can provide. Money is an abstraction for most teens. Conversely, the discipline of leadership in competitive teams is a valuable life lesson that will serve them well in college and the working world. We’ve let our kids find their passions and encourage them to be good citizens.
This kid is insanely efficient with her homework and knocks out essays without endless rumination and edits. We know other kids that struggled with Calc BC for hours each evening, and our eldest would end up with frequent 3:00 AM Junior year bedtimes given her orchestra and theater mix. Every kid is different and there’s no one right answer.
I think that’s what OP was saying - if your kid is taking APs, does he/she have time for anything else. There is no difference if a student is spending 15-20 hrs on an EC vs on a job, it is still time not spent on course work.
There is a big difference between a student spending 100% his/her time on study vs another student doing 10-20 hrs/week of ECs (work, sports, volunteer). Again, like I mentioned in the previous post, it is why adcoms want to know what other activities a student is doing besides studying. They want to know a student is capable of doing time management. Some parents (especially first generation) think the most important thing is for a student to have 4.0 GPA.
As far as having a part time job is a good way to teach student value of money or management of money, I am not necessary in agreement. My kids had monthly allowances through out high school because of their ECs, and as young adults they work very hard and are managing their budget well.
My 16 year old works. He’s taking 4 AP classes and has lots of EC’s- XC, multiple leadership positions, etc. He’s always been super busy. He usually works 8-10 hours a week, but for the next month, they have scheduled him for some longer hours, so he talked to his manager about cutting back to a more manageable schedule after those few weeks.
It’s been a really valuable experience for him. He had to interview, learn to manage his schedule, learn to talk to his manager about important things, etc. He has to work sometimes when he would rather not. A couple of times he forgot to schedule off and had to work when he had planned to do something else.
It’s good life lessons. We gave him a car, and we pay his insurance, but he pays for his own gas. So now sometimes he wants to ride with us to avoid paying his own gas, and when gas prices recently spiked, he was complaining about it. I think this whole experience is so good for him.
My daughter is 15 and right now she just babysits. People pay her a ridiculous amount and she generally gets to work when she wants. So she has less appreciation for money. When she turns 16, she will also get a job.
My D17 is a senior. We’ve paid her a small hourly wage for her otherwise unpaid internship, but for now her job is to complete her applications. She will get a job after the first trimester when her grades are locked in.
I’ve been there with the offspring getting to bed at 2 am, due to the combination of homework and a time-demanding EC. While operationally, we took the view “you do what you have to do,” I really think this was wrong. A lot of it was due to unreasonable time demands of the homework. Don’t even get me started on 3 am bedtimes, especially if the student has to get up at 6 or 6:30. Teenagers need more sleep than that, even if they are appearing to function.
My D took a bunch of APs and dual-credit courses, played on the soccer team, had leads in the school musicals and community theatre and had a job since she was 16 (and graduated 4th in her prep school class). Now out of graduate school, she finally discovered what it was like to be able to get at least six hours of sleep a night- she averaged 2-3 in grades 10,11 and 12! She was just one of those super-organized kids who wanted to do it all and could, but both of my sons had trouble with time management and would sleep 20+ hours straight if they could! It really depends upon the kid…
In her senior year my daughter had a part-time job, 3 AP classes and 3 College classes. on top of that she had a bunch of ECs. There were times when I didn’t see her for two to three days because she got home when I was in bed already. The time-management skills she learned during this time are really paying off now though. She is currently in her 2nd year at MIT, works as a TA and has another job on top of that. Somehow she manages to make good grades and still has a social life.
If your kid, for whatever reason, is going to bed at 2 and getting up at 6:30 or earlier, let us hope that the kid is not attempting to drive while being so severely sleep deprived.
You do what you gotta do, but you don’t need to kill yourself or others in the process by falling asleep behind the wheel of a car.
@Marian Agree. I would never allow my teen to only get 3 hours sleep in a regular basis. Something would have to go. Teens really need the sleep. My kid managed to get 7 hours minimum every night while taking all honors and 7 APs junior and senior years and also goofing down the job and time demanding ECs. If your kid did not have that effeciency of time, their sleep should not be what suffers. Something else has to go