<pre><code> My son's about to graduate from Columbia and I'm about to make a much-overdue exit from this board.:)
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<p>I thought that as a farewell, I'd make myself available to answer any parental questions about the Columbia experience. I remember the frantic decision-making process (we actually tore up a check to another university, stayed up with our son most of one night, got down to flipping coins. He basically decided in the line to the post office on the day it was due.)
I know you will be looking for any source of info you can find to help your marvelous kids choose between many fine options. Please let me know if I can help answer questions, and I will do my best.</p>
<p>My S like engneering, but might not be as crazy as other kids who like it so much. He may take econ or financial and engneering, but people say like financial engneering is not a real engneering? Is this a good choice, especially in Columbia? Other people say Cal is such a small school and is not well-rounded. It might be good for career development.</p>
<p>though not a parent, i'm in the engineering school at columbia and can safely say that it is very rigorous. It might not be as crazy as caltech, but for finance or econ you don't need to have an intense engineering education to really do well, I'd vouch for quite the opposite, because if you spend a little less time studying you can join clubs, econ/business or otherwise and develop better social skills which would help with interviewing. very few caltech kids go on to wall street and wall street hardly recruits there because there is such a disconnect. caltech is extreme from what i've heard, it's a place you go to if you are sure you want to devote your life to science.</p>
<p>at columbia operations research or financial engineering suffices for business jobs.</p>
<p>One of my best friends from high school went to Caltech, and I know a lot of his friends/acquaintances. So I can say that Caltech and SEAS are totally different environments. If your kid spends an overnight visit at each of them (which I've done), he'll easily figure out which one he wants to attend.</p>
<p>Caltech is not very well rounded, especially compared to SEAS which is about as well-rounded as an engineering school gets (given the heightened liberal arts requirements and the propensity of its graduates not to go into engineering).</p>
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very few caltech kids go on to wall street and wall street hardly recruits there because there is such a disconnect.
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<p>This is largely self-selection. There are very few caltech kids, period, because it's a small school. But a number of them to go into Wall Street, and they have no problems finding jobs. My friend lives with two fellow Caltech alums, and they're all quant types and make ****tons of money. </p>
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i'm in the engineering school at columbia and can safely say that it is very rigorous.
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<p>I don't think it's on the same level as Caltech, though. SEAS is just as rigorous as MIT, but I've seen problem sets and practice exams for Caltech equivalents of classes I took and it was on a whole different level. Caltech is just crazy.</p>
<p>A_ddad,
I agree with the advice to have your S visit both schools and make the choice about which atmosphere appeals to him as the place he can thrive. Caltech is an amazing place for those who know that science or engineering is for them. Columbia may be a better place for those who are still exploring. Does your S want to also get a liberal arts foundation? Does he want to be around people with a broader variety of interests? Does he want to be in NYC? Does it matter to him whether there are more female students? :) If he decides that engineering is not for him after all, would he still be happy at Caltech?</p>
<p>In terms of operations research and Wall Street, Columbia is well connected and offers the possibility of internships during the year as well as during summers. (Of course, who knows what finance will look like for the next few years.) If your S were someone who had always dreamed of being a physicist, I'd probably recommend Caltech. But given your description, I do think Columbia sounds as if it might be a good fit. He should definitely visit it again if he can.</p>
<p>Thank you so much for offering to answer questions. My daughter has decided to go to Columbia and is very excited about it. We live in the Bay Area too. D is the kind who will enjoy everything that NYC has to offer - Broadway, museums, restaurants etc. I do believe she will be a great fit. I just want to know frankly, what your S did not like about the experience. How are the dorm rooms? How is the dorm food? What did he think about the core curriculum? What did he major in? Does he know what he wants to do after graduation? How easy are internships to come by?</p>
<p>sac,
Thanks so much for the helpful information and suggestions. My S will definitely visit Cal and re-visit Columbia. I also have further questions as 2008parent asked. Your answer and other friends' answer will be highly appreciated. Thanks.</p>
<p>2008parent: Congrats to your daughter, and how nice to have the decision already made! To answer your question:
1. S complained the first year that people clumped together more than in high school along ethnic lines. Specifically, he hung out with Asian friends in high school and found that more difficult in college. I don't think this is unique to Columbia, but I do remember him mentioning it. He's also said that people just hang out and shoot the breeze more on the West Coast. At Columbia, they are more apt to get together in small groups and head out into the city. Once he found his friends, I heard less of this however. He loves NYC and really is torn about leaving. He and his girlfriend stayed in NYC over Spring Break just doing the museums, restaurants, etc. He managed to get himself a gig as a restaurant reviewer last summer and had quite the time. In terms of academics, Columbia advising leaves something to be desired. But, then, he never took advantage of what advising there is.
2. Dorms: I found out later that his second year, in McBain, he had to buy earplugs because there was so much noise on Broadway. Now he comes home and complains it's too quiet. I don't remember any comments about dorm food, sorry.
3. He loved the core curriculum, except for Frontiers of Science which, as a science-type, he hated. Not every teacher core was the best, but his LitHum and CC experiences were particularly good, and he summed up the whole thing as "great." That had been a big part of his decision to go to Columbia, so I was relieved to see how much he enjoyed it.
4. Internships seem to there, but of course that was pre-economic meltdown. With very few classes meeting on Fridays, that makes it possible for kids to have internships during the year. He's found lots of ways to make money, from bartending to tutoring to TAing.
5. He's an econ-math major and physics concentrator (like most Columbia students, he likes a challenge.) After much indecision, it looks as if he's going on to a PhD program. But he really doesn't want college to end, or to leave NYC.
I hope your daughter enjoys Columbia as much as he has!</p>
<p>As the parent of a Columbia sophomore, I'd like to say thanks to Sac who answered several questions from me prior to my daughter's Columbia enrollment. I will also offer my assistance to anyone with specific questions, given Sac's imminent departure. A quick summary: my daughter is a history major with a pre med concentration. She's had a wonderful two years there, and it is hard to believe her time is halfway over. She's found a community service project she loves, and is on the undergraduate recruitment committee (tour guide, although they do much more, including hosting Days on Campus, etc.). She has lived in Hartley (living learning center) for 2 years, and has a large group of diverse, suportive friends. She has liked having a single in a suite arrangement, so that she can socialize when she wants, and sleep when she wants. From her reports, dorm food wasn't bad for a year, but you quickly grow tired of it and she no longer has a dining plan. I would describe her life as intense, but in a very good, thriving kind of way.<br>
Any other questions, please ask, or PM me.</p>
<p>Great to see another parent on here, msjhop! There are so many different Columbia experiences that I would hate to have anyone just rely on what I know of my S's. I do think you've used the description that can sum up most Columbia undergrad lives though:
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intense, but in a very good, thriving kind of way.
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S complained the first year that people clumped together more than in high school along ethnic lines. Specifically, he hung out with Asian friends in high school and found that more difficult in college. I don't think this is unique to Columbia, but I do remember him mentioning it. He's also said that people just hang out and shoot the breeze more on the West Coast.
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<p>Everyone has a different experience, but that wasn't true at all for me. Maybe there's more ethnic separation in CC where it's predominantly white and other ethnic groups feel the need to flock together, but in SEAS there's pretty much an equal mix of whites, Indians, Asians, Arabs, etc. and there isn't much ethnic separation.</p>
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I found out later that his second year, in McBain, he had to buy earplugs because there was so much noise on Broadway.
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<p>I bought earplugs my first month at Columbia and used them throughout -- and still use them to this day because I'm overly sensitized to noise. If you're in Hartley or Wallach or JJ on the street side, you're basically facing a hospital and will hear ambulances at all hours.</p>
<p>Some of the symptoms of apparent ethnic self-segregation is just from sample sizes - the majority of the campus is white, despite Columbia's best efforts (which are more successful than those of many other schools).</p>
<p>I'm as WASP as you get, one of my best friends is an asian, another (who I met on my carman floor) is from Sri Lanka and grew up in Qatar, I lived (and studied with) with several Indians, I'm dating an Indian now, and I live with two black guys and a jew, all of whom I met at columbia. I'm pretty sure Shraf is Egyptian - is that right? Anyway, it's mostly a factor of who you happen to run into. Not once have I heard any quasi-racist laments about self-segregation at columbia. I've heard that about jocks grouping together or of course frats and sororities, but that's to be expected.</p>
<p>I should amend my comment. It was not to imply racism. Just that at Columbia College, like many universities I think, some students who may not have had much chance to explore their ethnicity in high school get involved in clubs and groups around their heritage once in college. My S's self-selected activities tended to re-enforce this. (I get the impression that SEAS, which is smaller and where students do a lot of group projects, is more cohesive than Columbia College. But students would have a better take on that than I do.)</p>
<p>The social life at Columbia seems to revolve around many, many little worlds. These are not all ethnic by any means. The ethnic clubs and groups are there among dozens and dozens (hundreds?) of others for those who want them.</p>
<p>His comments during the first year probably had as much to do with coming from the West Coast to the East Coast as Columbia in particular. He comes from a particularly multicultural community, not to mention family. :)</p>
<p>You mentioned your S chose Columbia over Stanford. I can understand he wanted a change of scene, since you live in the Bay Area. However, how was the adjustment for a kid who grew up on the West Coast? Didn't your S ever regret the choice or feel terribly homesick? More importantly, as I have gathered from other board, aren't the opportunities for getting admission into top grad schools greater after an undergrad from Stanford compared to Columbia? Are we splitting hairs here, or is there some truth to that? Just curious. Any comments would be appreciated.... Thank you</p>
<p>2008parent,
I was hoping someone would ask me about grad school opportunities after Columbia! There were those who thought we were letting him ruin his life by turning down universities USNWR ranks higher. My S is going to a PhD program at Stanford next year:) Not only did he never regret not going to Stanford as an undergrad, he's grown so attached to NYC and his friends there that he is torn about leaving. (And he's worried he'll be bored in Palo Alto. How you gonna keep them down on the farm after they've seen New York?)</p>
<p>Perhaps you have to be more proactive at Columbia to take advantage of its opportunities. No one holds your hand. On the other hand, when he decided grad school was probably in his future and contacted profs about working with them, he got great responses from just about all of them -- whether they were tops in their fields or young up and comers.It just bears out our advice to him when making his original choice: every place has opportunities, go where you think you'll be happiest and likeliest to take advantage of them. It worked out. Whew.</p>
<p>Thank you so much Sac for your prompt reply. I feel a sense of relief after reading about your son's experience. I needed to hear that! With all the hype about HYPS on the boards, it is easy to get carried away and discount every other school....</p>
<p>As for the homesickness, I'm sure there was some the first year. (We have a relative on the Upper West Side, and that helped.) He didn't instantly become a NYC person. But I remember him saying that's why he liked the Columbia campus so much. When he didn't feel like dealing with the city, he could stay on campus, which feels like an oasis. Columbia's so compact, that he ran across people he'd met every day. His love for the city grew over four years.</p>