Parents of the HS Class of 2017 (Part 1)

@mominthemiddle this is tough situation. I will say from my days at CMU, that Pitt is “next door” and hopefully she will see that its not a bad campus at all. Its in a city, but far away from downtown, where it feels more suburban. There is a huge park right next door.

there is the $ issue. If she is set on U of D, can you insist that she take out loans so that she has some skin the game.?

As far as indiana, we got the perfect weather day and everything else, but somehow D cant quite see herself there. But since she never wanted a big school, and Indiana had her thinking, I consider it a success. For a school their size, I did feel the love.

the other option is that she attends Delaware, and finds that she doesnt like it, and will transfer. . How does the person she is dating fit into all this?

@mageecrew - As someone who lives in Worcester County - although Worcester may not be the prettiest city, there are some pretty areas in and around it. The Tatnuck area of Worcester (near Worcester State and Assumption College) are beautiful. The Worcester Art Museum is a nice take in. The DCU center provides lots of entertainment options. With 10 colleges in the city - there are lots of college kids around. If your D has transportation, there are many parks and hiking options and a small Ski Mountain that is not far from there if she skis. My D16 has a few friends at WPI and they are very happy there. If you have any specific questions about the area, feel free to PM me. :slight_smile:

@mominthemiddle Sounds like it has been a frustrating process for you. All I can say is it could be worse, she could be fixated on Quinnipiac to be with the boyfriend. Delaware is a good school, and hopefully it is affordable. My son just heard about honors college admission from them two weeks ago. I have no idea why they are so slow with the honors college stuff, he was also above 75th percentile, so hopefully she will get that. It sounds like Indiana was not meant to be with all the health issues for that visit - what a nightmare!

@mominthemiddle I am so sorry this has been and continues to be a crappy experience for you. First of all, hugs to you. Your daughter sounds like a strong willed, opinionated girl - not bad qualities to have after a level of maturation. None of those schools were on our list so I don’t have any info on the particular schools but we are kind of a nerdy spreadsheet family so maybe thinking of quantifying her intangibles along with quantifying the tangibles will help her see the difference in the other colleges. “Feel and fit” is one aspect of a college choice, I agree, but only one of very many including cost, accessibility, location, academic choices, extra-curriculars, dining hall(more important with a boy i think), school spirit, sports, Greek system, size, level of difficulty, distance from home, library/study environment, and probably others. We gave each of those things numbers (1-5 because in our case it was 5 colleges) and our ds was surprised to see that the school he thought was his favorite was actually ranked pretty low after he quantified all the things important to him.

If I put myself in your shoes, I think my goal would be that she understand what she is doing and how she is deciding. Also, you need to decide how much of a choice she actually has. I also agree with @sdl0625 that making a choice you do not approve of more financially costly to her is an option. If she feels she can make the best choice for herself, she should be also capable of bearing the financial burden better. If that is not an option to her, then perhaps she can listen to reason from you.

One thing we had our ds do was write to the department he is planning to major in at each school he was interested in, and ask for a student contact to email back and forth with. He had a really good success rate with that and was able to ask all kinds of questions that helped him get a feel for each school. You still have a full month before a decision needs to be made and your d could learn a lot about all of the schools from this.

Finally, I would not underestimate the possibility that your d is afraid of big places. Some of those schools are very large - that can be a scary thought for kids from a smaller private school environment. That might be the “fit” she feels with Delaware. It is very small compared to a school like Indiana.

No actually finally - it is important that you and your child try to get on the “same side” of this decision i.e. all of you have the same goal which is a successful college environment for that child that makes sense to everyone. As painful as the process is, maintaining a good loving relationship after the decision will be so important for her mental health (heck and yours as well) in the four years coming.

It sounds like you so desperately want what is best for her and are better at “seeing the forest instead of just the trees” for your d. Good luck as you wade through this difficult decision. And stay on this board! It is a great set of parents who have some great advice and all kinds of experience. You can always find a hug here!

Pittsburgh is a great city! Great restaurants, museums, etc close by, free bus pass for students.

There are sports at Pitt, football games in fall and basketball in winter.

I do hope she gives it a chance.

Happy Ivy Day…good luck to all looking for news…

@crazym0m @caroldanvers @sdl0625 goodness, thanks! Yes, daughter is very strong willed and I think it is a fantastic character trait to have strong opinions, IF you have knowledge of facts to back them up, ears to listen to the other side of the story since there is always another side, and the where-with-all to think things through thoroughly.

D currently attends a small (senior class less than 100) Catholic high school similar to Cheers - but everybody not only knows your name, they know everything about you. She’s not preppy, she does her own thing with clothes, whatever, very independent in many ways. Son goes to Miami University - think she wants his college experience without the preppiness. But he’s a guy, easy going, the most social of my 3. She wants to get away from the small school thing, have a ton of friends, have a ton of choices, have things to do. She thinks she really wants greek life.

Would UDel be terrible? Probably not, but without honors, I am not a fan. No college is perfect, you have to decide what factors are important and which you can compromise on. Without honors, I feel there is too much compromising. With honors, I’d feel better, but not enough to deposit until she saw a few other places. But she has to go in open minded, to vet each place and I don’t know she will do that. She’s asking for a huge financial commitment - I think she has the responsibility to ensure that money is spent wisely. And yes, she will have student loans.

She might be scared of the size of Indiana, but if she spoke to the people of Indiana, I think she’d be a fan. She might not like the location of Pitt, but if she saw the museums and cultural activities, I think she’d be a fan. I’ve asked for 3 things where UDel excels over the other choices - back up the feeling that you like the place with some facts on why it is best.

@sdl0625 the BF was initially trying to transfer to UDel, still might be I guess he has till May 01 to apply but don’t think he has the GPA to do it right now. We are not sure of what is going on there. He tends to be negative on any option she promotes. He doesn’t feel he had options and her having options doesn’t always sit well.

We’ve done the spreadsheet thing, the talk thing, the yell thing, the plan without her thing. My message to her today was she has pushed my buttons enough. If she doesn’t want to stay here, then she better start doing her best to check out ALL her options. Or she can continue to stand with her arms crossed, feet planted firmly, head in the sand - all of which are not working very well for her. Ugh!

After dragging her feet, D declined an acceptance yesterday. She was planning to decline 3 acceptances, but the question of where she planned to attend put the breaks on the decline process. It seems rude to answer undecided.

I’m really struggling with getting my D17 to decline acceptances. I realize its a good problem to have, but at the same time, there are schools falling off her radar and I want them to know so they can offer positions to other students. :slight_smile: I can’t even imagine how/when she’ll actually pick. We go visit Miami (OH) and Villanova this weekend. Then Wake Forest in a couple of weeks. I do think those are the contenders at this point. I have a question- do you see your children still struggling with the “prestige” thing like mine is? We keep talking about fit but she can’t let go of “which is better”? It is interesting that she has dropped a couple of school that are probably higher “ranked” so I think we are making progress, and I admit I get stuck in it too but more about “why would I pay X for this” when Y is ranked higher, smaller"- whatever I get in my head as a positive.

OK, for my funny of the day. I don’t get on too often but every once in a while I get on to read what others are going through. I’ve wanted to ask what NFW means a few times. To be honest, I thought is was some kind of scholarship designation that she didn’t qualify for or something like that. Anyway, last night I was reading an old thread and the context of NFW became clear. I about spewed my tea when I realized how many parents have my practical mindset… Anyways thanks for the laugh and solidarity!

@mominthemiddle tough spot you are in for sure. Don’t have much advice but I went to U of Delaware many many years ago and can tell you it was a great school. I was an OOS student but loved it from the 1st day right through to graduation. I graduated with 2 degrees totally unrelated to one another and the 2 colleges, my professors and my advisors could not have been more helpful in making what looked like an unworkable situation totally doable. In both areas of study I was completely supported in my goals. Academics were strong at UD. Sports were not a main focus but we did go to football games on Saturdays and loved it when our basketball team got into the NCAA Tournament. Even 20 years after graduation when I needed help when applying to grad school I found the people I dealt with from UD to be very helpful and professional. My friends from UD all still rave about their time there and have found their degrees have helped them achieve the success they wanted as adults. I had my son look at it and he really liked it but ultimately it was not the school for him but I would have felt 100% comfortable with his attending there. I hope this helps to ease your mind if your daughter still really wants to go there. Good luck!

@texasmissy haha I like to imagine NFW is “not financially workable”… :wink:

Hey everyone. I haven’t been on in awhile. Busy at work, then vacation, etc. (you know, LIFE lol). Anyways, my DD has had great luck in her acceptances so far. Acceptances so far, in order of notifications:

Tulane (Presidential scholar $32k merit, Honors, still waiting on financial aid packet)
Howard (Presidential full-ride scholarship)
USC (Presidential half-tuition scholarship, plus $2k university scholarship, plus NCP waiver granted so good financial aid)
UCSB (Honors)
UCLA
Fordham (Dean’s scholarship $32k merit, Honors, NCP waiver granted so decent financial aid but still highest out-of-pocket so far - cost of living in NY is INSANE)
Georgetown (still waiting on financial aid packet)

Still waiting on George Washington (they did grant NCP waiver and they have merit aid so should be decent offer).

She also finds out today about UPenn and Columbia. Good luck to everyone awaiting Ivy decisions today!

Congrats to all the amazing acceptances so far. Our kids rock!

@crazym0m I prefer my interpretation, even if yours is correct :wink:

@texasmissy My son is a Sophomore at Miami University; Finance major in Farmer School of Business. Biggest complaint this year has been the change of meal plan - son is in a frat house this year so it did not affect us, but I do think they listened and made changes. Wake Forest (visited 3x) was on his list back then as was Elon (3X) - final cut came down to Elon and Miami which he had not set foot on. Admitted student’s day he fell in love with Miami which he was adamant he was NOT going to attend because of the location. He committed, we are in CT - he went there not knowing a soul. Never had a day of homesickness, he had a blast freshman year and made Dean’s list 1st semester of this year. Any questions, feel free to ask.

@Collegecue Thank you! I may be asking some questions.

@mominthemiddle No advice, but sorry it’s been such a tough time for you. I’d probably just get mad and deal out some tough love and make things worse.

As for Ivy Day, we have no stake in the game today so we are just going to sit back with popcorn and watch the frenzy. Our son has a bunch of friends who applied and he thinks a few are going to get a lot of disappointments. But who knows, it’s a crazy process!

In the interest of setting a tone for the Ivy Day shenanigans & party, the WSJ had this timely article…https://www.wsj.com/articles/is-the-ivy-leagues-admission-bias-a-trade-secret-1490740763

Is the Ivy League’s Admission Bias a ‘Trade Secret’?
Princeton sues to block the government’s release of documents that could show discrimination.
At Princeton University.
At Princeton University. PHOTO: GETTY IMAGES

By JASON L. RILEY
March 28, 2017 6:39 p.m. ET
981 COMMENTS
Shortly after the Supreme Court’s dispiriting decision last year in Fisher v. University of Texas, which upheld the use of racial preferences in college admissions, Gallup released some encouraging poll results. More than 6 out of 10 white, black and Hispanic respondents said they disagreed with the ruling. And 7 in 10 people—including 76% of whites, 61% of Hispanics and 50% of blacks—said colleges should admit applicants based “solely on merit.”

Of course, the Supreme Court’s job is to interpret the commands of the Constitution, not opinion surveys. Still, the polling results are a reminder that the courts and the college administrators who cheered the ruling are much bigger fans of racial double standards than are the general public—even those who supposedly benefit from race-based affirmative action.

But the Gallup poll also illustrates how our national discussion of racial preferences in higher education has gotten so dated. Nowhere mentioned in the survey—and only glancingly referenced in the Fisher majority opinion written by Justice Anthony Kennedy—are Asian-Americans, though they are the country’s fastest-growing racial group and have become increasingly fed up with their treatment at elite colleges.

“The old paradigm of affirmative action being about white versus black has been completely upended,” says Edward Blum of Students for Fair Admissions, a group that opposes racial preferences. “California, Arizona, Texas, Florida—these are states that are becoming majority-minority, multiracial, multiethnic. We’re competing as different racial and ethnic groups that really have less and less meaning in our multiracial and multiethnic society.”

In 2006 Jian Li filed a complaint with the Education Department’s Office of Civil Rights after he was denied admission to Princeton University. Mr. Li, who emigrated from China at age 4, had a perfect score on the SAT and graduated in the top 1% of his high school class. He alleged that Princeton violated civil-rights laws banning discrimination on the basis of race, color and national origin. The complaint was initially rejected, but Mr. Li appealed and the government reopened the investigation in 2008. Seven years later, in 2015, the Obama administration, which strongly supported the use of racial preferences in college admissions and obviously took its sweet time reviewing Mr. Li’s case, issued a report exonerating Princeton.

Last year Mr. Blum’s organization filed a public records Freedom of Information Act request with the Education Department to gain access to the same documents that the federal government used to clear Princeton of any wrongdoing. Mr. Blum’s organization represents a group of Asian plaintiffs who are suing Harvard University over its admissions policies. The judge in that case has ordered Harvard to turn over six years of admissions records, and Mr. Blum suspects that the data will show that Harvard is unlawfully capping Asian enrollment.

America’s Asian population has exploded in recent decades, and Asian attendance at highly selective schools with colorblind admissions, such the California Institute of Technology and the University of California, Berkeley, reflects this demographic trend. At Harvard, however, the percentage of Asian undergrads has remained remarkably consistent for an institution that claims race is not a determining factor in who is admitted. Mr. Blum suspects that Princeton engages in similar shenanigans, but the school has been pressuring the Education Department to deny him the information that he requested more than a year ago.

Concerned that the government was finally going to fulfill the FOIA request, Princeton sued the Education Department on March 17 to block the release of the admissions documents. The suit argues that the material being sought is exempt from FOIA, a claim that the government has rejected. The school also maintains that releasing the data would compromise student privacy, and it likened its admissions process to “trade secrets” that, if exposed, would put Princeton at a competitive disadvantage in attracting students.

Don’t believe it. Admissions officers switch schools all the time, presumably taking knowledge of admissions procedures with them, and the criteria used by elite institutions to evaluate applicants is not the equivalent of an iPhone patent. Nor is student privacy an issue since names, addresses and other personal information can be redacted. Mr. Blum’s organization simply wants the number of Asians who have applied to Princeton, their SAT scores and grade-point averages, and other information that the school used to analyze applicants academically.

What really concerns Princeton is a potential discrimination lawsuit. What ought to concern the rest of us is the apparent determination of elite colleges to punish Asians students for their academic success. Asians have long been the forgotten victims of liberal affirmative-action schemes, subject to unwritten “just for Asian” admissions standards that recall the treatment of Jews in the first half of the 20th century. Princeton wants them to shut up about it. Let’s hope they don’t.

Appeared in the Mar. 29, 2017, print edition.

@MSHopeful , so you already know about GW?

Delaware for @mominthemiddle: I’m curious after reading your posts what your issues with Delaware are. You clearly don’t like it as a possibility, but you haven’t really given any specifics beyond not pulling off a great accepted students day (and really, speaking for myself, I’m always a little skeptical of how much one can tell either way from such clearly-just-marketing events). It appears that maybe you think that Delaware wouldn’t be academically rigorous enough (since you’ve said “not without honors”)? Is that it? Or is it a relative prestige thing, or something else? And, of course, on the flip side, what is it that draws your daughter to it?

NFW for @texasmissy and @crazym0m: I believe that the accepted wisdom on this thread is that it stands for No Fiscal Way, though other expansions of the abbreviation are certainly possible.

Declining acceptances: Our plan all along has been for our daughter to not decline any acceptances until she’s firmly enrolled somewhere. She’s sent in her commitment card, but she hasn’t gotten an acknowledgment back yet (which is reasonable, since it probably only arrived day before yesterday). Once that happens, though, it’s time to start officially saying no.

ETA bias in Ivy admissions: The article @vandyeyes posts does an interesting job of conflating the rules governing public and private higher-ed admissions. Whether there is such discrimination or not (and I have no idea whether or not there is—and an individual with perfect SATs and grades isn’t clear evidence, really, given the way admission works), it may well be completely legal for private colleges to do so in the interest of making their student body as racially and ethnically varied as possible. (Now, as to whether they’re successful in doing so, if that’s their goal, on that I do have strong opinions, and they’re not very flattering to that segment of the higher-ed market…)

@mominthemiddle I’m so sorry it’s been a tough process! My daughter hasn’t exactly been a peach either through this, so I understand. It sounds like your daughter has some very good options if she’ll give them a chance.

I vowed to keep my mouth shut about college decisions until after today. The bf is waiting on Berk and ivies, not looking favorable. Both he and D17 are also waiting on NYU, I think he’ll get in, she may or may not, but it will likely be NFW for both. He’s waiting on financial info from a few schools, but at this point I think his family is pushing him to commit at UC Irvine, unless he has a surprise acceptance today. This puts my D at Cal Poly slo which is where we always wanted her to be. I have to keep telling my husband to shut up and let her make the decision. I think she’s sad her New York dreams are not to be. Of course she has acceptances all over the country with enough merit to be viable and can certainly go, but if wanting to be near the boyfriend keeps her in California then she needs to own that decision. In that way, the whole thing is working out for the parentals, her dad never wanted his 17 year old in New York anyway. High stress day over here, I think decisions will be made over this weekend. I will be so glad to be done with this process.

As far as the big fish in a small pond… my daughter seems to do better when faced with some competition. She’s not looking at nearly as big of ponds as some of your kids, but stretching herself academically always seems to be a good thing for her. She performs better having to fight for it and keep up with the high achievers.

@sdl0625 No, not yet. But I was able to login to the financial page the other day and saw they accepted her NCP waiver. So if she gets in, it should be a decent financial offer, although I don’t believe they say they meet 100% need.