I think NHS in our school was a 3.7. My son qualified by skin of teeth. He wondered if he should bother applying, as the stuff he does to help out are things like shoveling old neighbors driveway, earth day clean up, some school peer tutoring. No major official service/volunteer groups. He had to get 2 letters of rec, write an essay etc. and make a portfolio. He wrote in his letter that he does volunteer but just not “offically” but stated he would be happy to join some official groups going forward. He told the truth.
He had some friends that made a bunch of baloney up about stuff they never did.
My son, didn’t get in, but the liars did. Brutal. They even joked they never should’ve gotten it.
I told my son he did the right thing and was honest with himself and the group, and if they didn’t want him they can go screw. He felt better after that. Hasn’t looked back. He will not re-apply in the fall.
@CT1417 I think it’s just a new cover 
not a new book.
@Agentninetynine Oh, It saves $12.
NMSC doesn’t need the Subject test score nor look at it, but SAT1 scores CAN be sent along with Subject scores for free. I did not know that.
That’s awful @rightcoaster. Why does it matter if he volunteers in an organized fashion? This is NHS after all, not Volunteers of America. Sadly I’m not surprised. I discovered that all sorts of this gaming, lying and flat out cheating occurred and probably still does at my kid’s school. D was #12 or #13 (can’t remember exactly). She says that except for three of the top 15 (the Val, herself and one other boy) the others had either cheated in several classes, had 4 years of tutors and or lied about volunteer work. And she wasn’t bitter about it, she says it’s a matter of course.
Input needed!
I am a bit afraid I freaked out a mom/friend yesterday and I’d love to have input in case I came off too strong/conservative/negative. Intent was realistic. :-<
Her S17 is having a pretty disastrous 2nd semester right now (off and on ineligible for track kind of disastrous). Average grades going into it, very few honors and AP. Test scores sound on the low side though we didn’t get into specifics (none of my business). Exceedingly talented musician. Exceedingly. Tons of awards (french horn), state level competitor, youth symphony etc.
They, like so many of us, are having a reality check on the costs of college and have been really hoping for some kind of full music ride scholarship. Their S will only consider 3 schools, but really only wants one. All instate. Given the scenario, I think only 1 is a safety admissions wise (his top choice) and the other 2 are matches, but possibly reaches depending how things play out. His top choice is the best music school in the state (lowest academic of the 3 which is good in his case) but as a result, that aspect is incredibly competitive. She is trying to get him to consider some other schools where his chances at money may well be better and we chatted about some ideas of other schools that would be a fit academically, have strong music programs, and might be a better or equal chance for $$. He does not want to take on loans. I don’t know enough about the music end of things to have a clue how realistic it is for them to count on him getting a thing $ wise. I know of one talented local child that can’t even get into a performance group of any kind at our flagship as it is so competitive. Granted, he isn’t a music major as this student would be but it seems like it can be quite difficult. It is also costly as it sounds like he will have to go to each school for a live audition. She doesn’t even want to run the NPC’s until she sees the semester end and the final damage (or recovery) which I can appreciate but I did gently suggest at least plugging in some variables as 2 out of the 3 could potentially offer a very small amount of merit and every little bit helps.
In addition she told me they were thinking of DE for next year. DE at our school really isn’t DE. You have to take all your classes at the CC and none at the HS unless you didn’t test into the 100 level. Based on what she described I fear that could be a risk. While I have never looked into it for my kids (who adore the HS experience), I do know that in my SS’s case (different HS, but did the full 2 year CC program with one math class at his HS) and from what I’ve heard from my S17 is that if you do this program (Running Start) then you cannot participate in school sports or music. We’ve lost some great kids from our jazz and wind ensemble over the past few years as they moved to this program. Not doing XC, Track, Jazz and Wind Ensemble might really kill this kid, it is all he loves and plans to be a music major. Added to that, the CC classes are simply harder, at least they were for our SS. For a struggling student this seems like a really bad idea. They were looking at it as a “save money on tuition plan”. In my experience, especially the student doesn’t test in at the right level and doesn’t pick classes really carefully by knowing ahead of time what will transfer, it may not save you much at all. He doesn’t seem to be able to manage his load now (or more accurately catch up on his load after their 2 week band trip) and I’d question that being in a completely self directed and accountable situation with little oversight would be the best thing for him. My understanding is that student doesn’t want to do it, it is coming from the parents. Who I don’t think realize that at CC you can’t see their grades and so things could end up worse…and they would never know until it came time to discuss graduation. I do think he’s fulfilled most of the graduation requirements but I am not positive.
To add insult to injury at the track meet yesterday the coach came up and started grilling her on her sons performance and suggesting things like a physical to make sure there wasn’t a nutrient deficiency! While he isn’t a star athlete, he is solid and hovers on the bubble between JV and Varsity and there was a heck of a lot of implication for the upcoming district meets and next years XC. This is when I am glad to have the “average” athlete.
She was very very grateful but I am hoping I didn’t overreact and steer her wrong. She definitely is still playing ostrich (and acknowledges that) and nothing I offered was unsolicited but…I feel terrible right now!
Input welcome all! And sorry it’s so long!
tl;dr
Great music kid in trouble, should he consider DE or not? Does he have a chance at music money?
@2muchquan , @carachel2 , My D shares the same view of NHS as your daughters. She said that many members choose to tutor peers at school as volunteer hours. They just sit in the classroom staring off somewhere and do nothing. I’m sure that’s not the case for all the members but my D is not interested and is not a member.
@eandesmom I think you offered her solid advice. I would not want my struggling child in DE. Hopefully someone with knowledge of music scholarships will chime in.
@CaucAsianDad , I think this is a thread you can safely BRAG about your kid. You don’t have to be humble!! We are all happy for other kids’ achievements, too, here. I hope I’m right!
We didn’t look at NHS or any other clubs for our DS. He created his own service oriented club.
Our NHS uses odd standards too. A lot of otherwise qualified kids don’t get in because they don’t have enough leadership activities. Everyone can’t be a leader though realistically. In my son’s class there was someone who did not get into NHS but who got into Cal Tech. Just very silly. Our school doesn’t rank at all. It seems like more schools don’t rank these days so except for states where ranking is a rule there really doesn’t seem to be a disadvantage. My straight A student has the same GPA as my student who got a few B’s because he took one more AP class each year because he didn’t take foreign language beyond the minimum or arts. But I would think colleges could see the benefits of a more rounded student.
You did her a favor @eandesmom. A kid who is struggling in high school classes really shouldn’t be taking DE. Especially if the struggling is due to accountability issues; not turning in homework, coming to class unprepared, not studying for quizzes and tests. Your advice sounds spot on.
It’s been mentioned upthread about CC and not recommending it to other parents. I have told others about CC but I do throw in the caveat that there can be a hard edge to some posters comments. As the AO told us the other night that the vast majority of students matriculate to colleges who accept 70% of all applicants.
@eandesmom That’s funny about your S not bothering to turn in the paperwork for NHS! The hardest part about ‘getting in’ to our NHS chapter is filling out that dang paperwork! If a kid can navigate that process, I think they should get in every time.
@jmek15 – that ten point ranking scale sounds like an administrative nightmare. I can only imagine the jury-rigging that takes place.
Our school’s NHS sounds like your school’s. Periodic meetings, ongoing service requirements, but I still think the GPA threshold should be pushed up and/or a flat percentage of the class be inducted. As the school has added more APs and Honors level band, chorus & orchestra, we have seen more GPA inflation, and therefore more NHS members. But some applicants are rejected.
@RightCoaster – that is SO WRONG and so very annoying.
@payn4ward --thanks. That is what I thought about the book cover. He thought APUSH was ‘easy’ and has finally come around to listening to my advice and may sit for USH SAT II tomorrow with the idea that he can cancel the score. I am guessing that someone else at the lunch table mentioned the same idea b/c Mom’s idea could never be the correct one!
@HiToWaMom – yes, agree, bragging here is safe, and I don’t know about the rest of you, my mother doesn’t comprehend the scope of what I relay. She is happy to hear of her grandson, but doesn’t have the perspective.
Now to catch up on what emerged while I was typing.
@2muchquan that’s funny about the damn paperwork! That’s what I told my son. I said if you spend all that time gathering recommendations, writing letters etc I’d figured you would get in, unless you were a total delinquent in school and participated in nothing. My son is a really nice quiet kid, plays 2 varsity sports, tutors other kids in school who need help, never gets in any trouble. I was dumbfounded when the didn’t select him. He wrote a nice essay stating that he was looking forward to working with the group in future service projects, had nice letters of rec from coaches and his boss.
I didn’t know what to tell him when he didn’t get in. I just basically said they lost out on having a productive member and just move on to other things. He was a bit bothered about it, but moved on. He decided to organize a food drive for the lacrosse teams this spring and will give food to a local homeless group on behalf of the school. So I thought that was good.
@eandesmom, I tend to agree with your analysis that a CC would not be the right environment for your friend’s son, in many ways. Why take the “fun” out of HS by removing the ECs he enjoys? That may just cause a total failure, and that would be very sad.
Ho NHS at our HS. I don’t think it really adds much to a college resume anymore because of the easy abuse of the system. I know a number of kids who had enough on their common app EC list that they left NHS off or put it on as one of the last things.
I’m stuck waiting for an eye appt so forgive my smartphone typing 
My mil was bragging on the cousin making nhs, which is fine, but then made the mistake of asking d why she wasn’t in it. D looked at me and I made the “be nice” face and d replied “I wasn’t interested”. Which is true. Mil said "oh well I guess it’s not for everyone"in that “too bad for you” tone.
Grrrr. Smile and nod, smile and nod. It’s fine to be in it if it’s important to you, but it’s also fine not to be in it if it’s not. She is doing a bang up job of making her grand daughters really resent her.
D made it back, said physics was super hard, hopes for a generous curve.
@RightCoaster – do they also induct Seniors? Our school takes another group as Srs. I am not sure if their GPAs did not make the cutoff as of Jr year or they did not bother to apply or were not admitted.
One of my son’s closest friends did not apply b/c he thought he would not have enough volunteer hours. It can be tricky to check all the boxes on the application, but I am still horrified by your son’s friends who lied.
Welcome on board @Ldoponce !
This thread is moving so fast, I am pages behind.
Re: NHS. S17 got the “invitation” two years in a row but couldn’t honestly account for the minimum number of points on the paperwork to be inducted. He’s happy without it and I am confident he’s deserving of more honor than at least some of the members from his class. I’ve also wondered what they could possibly be putting down to accumulate the required points but I’m glad S17 doesn’t feel the need to count chores or paid refereeing as “volunteer hours” (although in some cases I know he’s doing more good for a few young players than certain youth coaches are).
@eandesmom I also think you did the right thing. I’m sure you handled it delicately as we are all conscious of how we’d feel if the shoe were on the other foot. Although that mom is frustrated right now, I’m sure some of what you said sunk in and she’ll recall it later when it’s time to make some decisions. Think of it this way – if you didn’t say anything but watched them send their child off to the CC program and struggle because they weren’t aware of the considerations, how would you feel then?
Argh @MotherOfDragons and a pox on relatives who compare kids! My mil is a wonderful woman who never meddles in our marriage, but she’s an odd duck when it comes to the grands. She loves our kids but has never made an effort to see them outside of family functions. Her favorites live close by her.
She tutors and teaches SAT prep and has worked with every grandchild. It was finally Spyboy’s turn and she knows him least of all. After the first session, she called Max and said in a shocked voice, “He’s really smart!” And then proceeded to hound the other grandchild for being lazy, unprepared and not getting as high scores as Spyboy. Did I mention other grandchild has a learning disorder? This, as you can imagine, has not led to family harmony.