@ILMom13579, the whole idea that one has to go to a college where everyone matches everyone else for stats is IMO at the very least elitist.
My D19 is very interested in a LAC where she’s well above the 75% mark (not all that hard to hit—the average ACT is 22). However, they have a fantastic gen-ed curriculum, the faculty in her field of interest are doing interesting research, and it’s an institution with a strong commitment to involving its students in community outreach and service.
So yeah, if she goes there most of the other students won’t be as well-prepared academically, probably. But my D19 would still get a good education, she’d get to work with some interesting faculty, and I daresay she’ll learn a lot from her fellow students, both academically and socially.
@dfbdfb - my apologies if my post made it sound like I was being elitist, that was the farthest thing from my mind when I wrote it. I certainly didn’t mean to offend anyone here, was just hoping for some honest dialogue that wouldn’t get lost in the shuffle.
I certainly don’t believe that everyone should match stats with schools. That is what makes many colleges and universities so great is the academic diversity of the student body. Just seeing if there are real-life success or failure stories in this context. No harm meant. Maybe there is a better place or another forum where this question is better suited? If so please direct me and I’ll re-post there.
@ILMom13579 my biggest concern with the school in question is not the selectivity but the ratio of undergrad to grad. Why does your D like this particular school? How many actual undergrads are there?
My S19’s GPA is higher than the one here. But that GPA encompasses “regular” math/science and honors English/history courses. His is not a 3.4 in all AP-level courses as I often see here at CC. And his SAT scores are well below the typical CC numbers because of math. He wants to major in English/writing and would be ecstatic if he was accepted to our state flagship’s main campus. But he would be equally ecstatic if he ended up at his preferred state flagship residential branch campus for the first two years instead. And he is above the stats for the other schools on his list.
So, you are in good company. Not all kids are aiming for the most selective options. Some even like schools where they are above the average when it comes to stats.
@ILMom13579 I went to a college that was less selective. I think I fell slightly towards the higher end in stats, was never bored. 2 of my friends were very high stats (there on full Presidential scholarships), did well, and never seemed bored or out of place.
It’s not something I would worry about for my kids. My d19 is strongly considering a college where she would be well above average in stats and I think it could be a very good place for her.
Thanks @InfiniteWaves - to be honest the UG/G ratio is a big concern for me as well. The whole school has ~5700 students of which, about 1500 are UG. I think this school is big for M Ed so lots of teachers, admins, etc. get grad degree there.
She likes a small school atmosphere based on our tours of other LACs and she is comfortable with a smaller class size/get to know profs/lots of discussion parts at small schools.
To be honest I think there are a couple of reasons it entered her radar…her cousin, whom she is VERY close to, has seen the campus, feel in love and is engaging D to check it out. Second, she saw some of the cool honors classes available to kids and was immediately intrigued. Mind you, this was the first school she had even checked out honors options as we really haven’t even discussed it with other schools.
She is a pretty social gal, likes to be involved…theater, singing, shopping, talking! But is slightly undecided on what she wants to study. She’s “narrowed” it down to something with psychology, communications/journalism/creative writing. This school is not super well known for the later but has a reasonably strong program of the former.
@ILMom13579 I wold be more concerned about the UG/G ratio than the stats question, depending on the kid. Some kids will do far better being the big fish and will shine, others need to rise up to feel competitive, others feel lost and overwhelmed in that environment. I don’t think it is a one size fits all question.
But, with 1500 UG, are there enough options if she changes her major. Will she have enough variety in professors over her time there. Is there enough to do? Many LAC’s do just fine in the 1200-2000 range and so really it may or may not be an issue. The reality too is that if she is above the stats pool…the opportunity for a merit offer is much higher and that is all really really nice!
There’s a difference, I think, between a school that’s 3:1 G:UG where the grad students are all “traditional” grad students getting research-based graduate degrees, and a school that’s 3:1 G:UG where the grad students are working on professional-type graduate degrees. In the latter case, the existence of the large contingent of grad students may actually be effectively invisible to the undergrads—in most of those cases, the graduate offerings are mainly just there as a way for the school to make dollar during slack time in the evenings.
@ILMom13579 I have a DS16 who attends an Honors College at one of our state schools.His stats place him above the 75th percentile of his school. He was accepted to schools that are perceived to be much more prestigious. He received a lit of comments from friends and family who questioned his judgement . He’s starting his Jr year and is thriving . That side of, he’s never been a super social or popular kid. He does not need a lot of friends , just a small, loyal friend group . He has become more social as he has found peers at his school. I contribute this to the fit of the school.
I agree with @dfbdfb that CC tends to be skewed towards high stats , prestige seeking students and parents. After reading enough posts, it’s easy to believe that this is the norm for students entering college. It is not .
Several questions and observations. Does your daughter have the opportunity to visit and speak with someone in the Honors College and possibly sit in on a class or speak with an Honors student? I found this to be very helpful with DS16 and DS19 to help narrow the search. Can you talk with your daughter about what interests her , and look at similar schools to give her some more options?I just would like to say that college is not HS. It is very different than many students are used to. It is faster paced with fewer opportunities to recover from a less than stellar grade. There will be many challenges even when attending a school where your child falls in the top 25 %. A student can attend a school with tens of thousands of potential friends and never connect with anyone or they can attend a small school with seemingly limited opportunities , connect with a large number of people and thrive. Fit is the most important thing to consider when choosing a school. The beauty of fit is that it is different for everyone . Until we stop looking at different as less than , students will he hesitant to make decisions on what’s best for them. I am not saying that you are swayed by prestige, but many are. Good luck to your daughter .
This is a helpful thread. I just realized that my D (Twin A) is very serious about school but that is her personality NOT her academic drive. Wow. Mind blown. I’ve been conflating the two and it has been hard to find the right place. She’s a solid B student with a good ACT, but doesn’t want to be at a school where studies blow off class and kids sit on their phones all during class. So, really she needs a school for B students who are into school, attend class, and are nerdy types? And frankly, she thinks she’s more driven than she is in school. So picture a procrastinator who usually get a B, but could do better.
So far her stretch school is Dickinson, looking at Fairfield and Hobart & William Smith next month. Her safety has been removed from the list so now I’m feeling behind. She loved Lafayette when we were there, but changed her mind, thought Muhlenberg was too small, St. Joe’s too urban. We’re in NC and she wants liberal culture and north of here. Smith and Bryn Mawr very much stretch and too serious. Marist’s point system based on social interaction bothers her b/c she isn’t social. She didn’t like Bates. I think Fairfield or HWS will be great visits. I mean…we’re out of time and Marriott points. She has to just make some choices, right?
Thanks all for the very generous feedback, so helpful! @TwinMom2023 - your twin A sounds very similar to my daughter. She loves to learn, but is a procrastinator and gets mostly A’s and B’s and a few C’s, but some of the B’s could have been A’s if she had done the work on time, actually “studied” for a test (I think she believes the material will just enter her brain through osmosis, lol). When she puts her mind too it though, she can really crank out some great work, like her CA essay that, for the last 4 weeks she kept saying she didn’t like any of the prompts, didn’t know what to write, etc. Then, just 2 days ago comes home with pretty much the entire essay written because one of her classmates asked her a question - BOOM! Idea, words and sentences coming at a mile miles a second and she’s done. Just needs to give it to her AP Lit teacher for a one-over. That pretty much sums up how she rolls with almost everything.
I had her originally looking at NU and ND because of FA component is important to us and her stats were pretty compatible. But it became apparent that she would not thrive in such high academic stress environments with her wanting so much more out of her college experience. So those came off the table and we came into smaller LAC arena with some of the CTCL’s like Hope (have not visited) and Lawrence and some of the slightly larger privates like DePaul and Marquette. I know a lot of folks here are not from the Midwest so some of these school names will be a little foreign but she fell in love with Augustana (Rock Island) so we have been checking out schools with the same vibe, area, academics, etc. But I also have to keep the publics on the list for $$$ purposes which she does not like. UIUC is way to big, Illinois State she liked but thinks it still might be too big. UW-LaCrosse is also on the list as a “mom choice” because they would be very affordable, isn’t huge and would have plenty of opportunities to switch up majors if needed. Then Saint Mary’s of Minnesota came onto the radar via her cousin and I can’t talk her down. This is the one with the UG/G skewed ratio. Is anyone familiar with this school? It’s kind of a hike for us to visit, but we might just have to bite the bullet and go.
Again, thanks everyone for being so kind and generous with your thoughts. She is my last to go through this process and is, by far, the most challenging so I really appreciate the insights.
Hello, long time lurker; D15; S16 and an active 3.0-3.3 when both were going through; we looked at St. Augustana for the second one he really liked it because he thought the professors were engaging! He has landed at a LAC not talk much on this board but does a good job with graduate placement. It said it’s easy to get in but you have to be focus and kind of a nerd to get out (graduate). He absolutely loves that he gets to Learn and loves his “smart” profs. Lovely campus in southern Indiana. Hanover college. @ILMom13579 you might want to take a look.
Augie is a wonderful choice. The campus is beautiful. The Quad Cities area is low cost of living. There’s more stuff to do in the QC compared to the surrounding farm towns.
Has she looked at similar type of schools on the Iowa side like Grinnell or Cornell?
On the Illinois side, Monmouth College also has a beautiful campus but the location has a lot to be desired. Small town with cornfields around it. Same goes for Knox College in Galesburg.
@ChicagoSportsFn - thanks for the info. Due to circumstances, I had to place a 3-4 hours driving restriction on schools she was looking at. Grinnell was out of our drive range and given how isolated it is, it was discounted, although I know the academics are top notch. Cornell was too small for her and at the time I don’t think had a good program for education (she has now changed her focus entirely). I think we also looked into Coe College as well.
We also discounted Monmouth and Knox although again, great programs, just not the right fit for her.
Augustana just really sat well with her with a beautiful campus, good academics and some chances to get into town/shopping. Close enough that she could come home on a weekend. Just need to show us the $$$. She has visited, will again so she can get the $1000 they award for visiting (they started that AFTER we visited the first time so we have to do it again), had an interview and will meant with a rep at school so we are definitely showing them the love, hoping they reciprocate!
For me, I really loved Lawrence for her…great geeky vibe which suits her personality. Some decent diversity which she wants, great academics but also lots of out of classroom opportunities. Still a decent drive, nice little town and beautiful, compact campus. She loves music and although she would not be majoring in it, being around all those people on a full-time basis I think would be a fantastic opportunity.
Saint Mary’s is just outside of the driving range, but her brother lives in WI and may be moving to MN so at least if she did go to school up there I would have a little backup in case she needed a taste of family.
@twinmom What made Muhlenberg small? Was it enrollment or campus size? Dickinson and Hobart have the same size enrollment, but larger physical campuses. Fairfield on the other hand is larger both in enrollment and campus size, although it is a suburban setting so it may appear smaller like Muhlenberg.
@eb23282 I liked Muhlenberg, but walking around campus, my D said it felt like a prep high school. I have no idea why she thought that. Maybe the way it was laid out geographically? She has been on many college campuses through touring and programs and I work at a university so I think she would benefit from a more open mind and less snap judgement.
What did you think of Fairfield and HWS? We have a lot riding on those two visits. Husband is going so I’ll be at a disadvantage.
@TwinMom2023 Not sure Fairfield would fit what she’s looking for, but Hobart Wm Smith might. Dickinson for sure sounds like a great fit. My dd had very similar criteria and was accepted at Dickinson with a 3.7w 31 ACT. Other schools she applied to (and admitted) that could fit the bill are Allegheny (top choice) and Susquehanna. I really liked SUNY Geneseo but she didn’t want to apply. We both thought Muhlenberg “felt small” as well.
So I’ve been crazy busy at work and haven’t posted in a while, but got somewhat caught up to read up on how everyone is doing. S19 (3.4 GPA/6 APs/29 ACT) applied to Montana State end of August (no fees, no essay, quick decision - less than 2 weeks) and he was accepted to their Business School. It’s probably near the bottom of his list but he loves to hike, fish and ski, so who knows… And I wanted this admission to take off some of the pressure - he knows he’s been admitted to at least one school!
He’s finished his Common App (except for the dreaded essays), but his goal is to be done by beginning of October (his AP Lit class is working on them) and submit EA to the rest of his schools. His top choice is the B school at our State Flagship school (University of Colorado) which he has a decent chance of getting in. He’s spending the night this weekend his friends (who were seniors last year) at our other large state university, Colorado State (he visited in February when it was frigid and he had the flu, so hopefully this will give him a better experience). Good luck everyone as I know this will be a stressful semester.
I also loved the list of acceptances that eandesmom kept (very inspiring!)
