It isn’t possible for every family and/or for every school, but to the extent that it’s possible and not detrimentally expensive, visits are - as many have already said - truly valuable in offering views that no guidebook, website, or promo piece can give.
Whenever it’s doable, let your kid walk around campus and get a feel for how the students seem to interact with each other, what they’re talking about in the dining hall(s) or coffee bars or whatever. Do they seem basically happy? Do they greet each other? Do they greet strangers? If they’re lying around on the quad / lawn / you-name-it, are they studying? Doing crosswords? Making music? Do kids seem to appreciate and take care of their surroundings? A one day or even overnight visit can’t tell you everything (weather, cycle of the semester, and plenty more can skew things), but it can tell you a lot.
None of this is to say that it isn’t super valuable to learn all you can about what’s offered academically, who the faculty are, and everything else that the school’s website and guidebooks can tell you. That’s the foundation of what your kid needs to know. But college is also a place where they’re going to live, and it’s worth learning as much as you can about what that’s really like at any given place.
As for what students post here and whether it’s reflective of the student body as a whole, I’d place that dead last in terms of value, for a number of reasons.
@lilmom, totally agree about visiting schools together. Sometimes it has to happen for convenience’s sake, but it does taint the evidence.
Way back in the dark ages when we first were visiting schools with our oldest, a wise friend with slightly older kids passed along our favorite piece of advice, which we’ve followed religiously: Never start talking about the school you’ve just visited until everybody’s had coffee and something to eat.
Yes, every student is different. That’s exactly why it’s important to visit. While D19 realized NYU was not for her, D20 loved it and may consider it. It’s a great school. D19 just gets very anxious in the city. She can handle a visit, but cannot imagine living there. Though there are some urban campuses that are not anxiety-producing for her, NYU isn’t one of them.
We took a road trip last summer, visiting several schools in the DC area, as well as NYU. (We’re from MA.) D19 applied to 2 of the schools we visited, UMaryland and JMU. Which schools are you looking at?
Yes, that’s the one you want! English teachers do tend to be better writers and use more colorful and descriptive language. I can tell a big difference between D19’s advisor, an English teacher, and D20’s, a History teacher. YMMV, of course, but all other things being equal (relationship with student e.g.) I’d always choose the one that’s a better writer.
@momzilla2D what about an absolutely glowing recommendation from a Spanish professor from freshman year compared to a generic recommendation from a calculus professor from junior year (and part of sophomore year) for a student going in to a CS major. The calculus professor seems like the right choice due to the subject matter and he’s a current instructor, but the Spanish professor adores my dd. He hasn’t had her in class since freshman year but she goes in to see him once in a while. She might take another class with him in senior year but it depends on if it fits her schedule. Dd is top of the class in calc so she’d get a good recommendation but nothing special like she would from her Spanish professor. I guess, ideally, she’d get one from both to round things out.
@momzilla2D My dd doesn’t attend the high school - she does dual enrollment full time at our community college. And her GC is nice but not very helpful - I think he is just overwhelmed with too many students.
@ebh87, the advice I’ve been given most often is for students to find the teachers who genuinely want to write a rec for them. The baseline requirements are teachers who admire and like the student AND can give specifics. The ideal is a teacher who will rate your kid as “one of the best I’ve ever taught” or some variant of that, and back it up with reasons.
Please believe me, I don’t want to sound facile about that - it’s not easy. With my older two there were obvious choices, for individual reasons. With S2 (my 2020 kid), there are no frontrunners yet.
@HarrietMWelsch Thank you! The Spanish professor would definitely do that but I worry since dd hasn’t been his student since freshman year. She goes to his office a few times a year to ask questions but hasn’t been a student. I had hoped he’d be a mentor for her since they think so highly of each other but she is too shy and intimidated to take advantage of the opportunity, unfortunately.
I hear you, @ebh87. And you will also hear the advice that the best choices are teachers who know them as more mature students, basically meaning junior year or sophomore teachers. But sometimes there are good reasons to go in a different direction. Either way, good luck.
@ebh87
Just my two cents (DS20 is my first and only college-bound kid so it is literally my two cents), I would think the letter from the calculus teacher from Junior year is more relevant and meaningful for your DD’s situation: her intended major is CS and the letter-writer taught her during her sophomore/junior years. Several schools we visited (Harvey Mudd and Duke specifically), emphasized that they would like to see recommendation letters from junior/senior year classes and from STEM teachers (for Harvey Mudd). The Spanish teacher could be the second letter-writer but I still think finding someone from junior/senior year will be better.
What do you guys think about a teacher with a very dark sense of humor? My D loves her APUSH teacher, should have him next year for comparative government, and it appears he likes her as well, mainly because they both appreciate sarcasm, sometimes benevolent (I.e, from open school night, “our administration spent a lot of time looking for the right team to write an emergency manual, and they found some brilliant folks! On page #N you will see that in case school mail servers go down, all the parents will get an e-mail alert”), sometimes not so benevolent. Again, D loves it, loves the class, loves the humor, but would AO’s appreciate it as well? Or rather, would they hold it against my D if they don’t share the humor?
@typiCAmom, I think I’d like that teacher, too. But it might not hurt to have your D ask her GC whether that teacher has done rec letters in the past, and what the school thinks about them.
I think visits are invaluable on so many levels…as stated already to get the feel of the school and DI being two of the most important. Also it is very helpful for the student to have visited when filling out the Why XXX College question when doing the application. Also very helpful when 5 minutes into the presentation/tour they say no way and cross it off! When my older daughter was a junior she could not visit schools during either February or April vacation due to high school commitments. She and I did a road trip in June and that July our family vacation was flying to the school that was the furthest away ( got flights for $60 a person) and renting a car and driving back visiting 7 schools and historical/fun places on the way back. We also did a few day trips for school close to home on days she had off junior year and Saturdays in September of senior year. That was our only family/vacation trip that year (10 days) and I planned it as economically as possible.
Since my D20 has done some touring as a sibling I expect to visit less schools with her but will still visit before applying to any. She does want to go away as well so she and I are flying to the Carolinas for February vacation and touring schools ( and visiting her sister). We will have also do a trip this summer though it might just be the two of us. Will be scheduling local schools ( making her look at a few) on weekends or days off this spring. After each visit she will rank her interest and write detailed notes (if the school stays on the list) so she can have those notes for the applications.
@makemesmart Thank you! I agree that a more recent teacher in a subject matter that is relevant to her major is preferable. I just hate giving up the amazing recommendation from the Spanish professor!
@typiCAmom I think the teacher’s recommendation would be fine - he likes your D and would probably write an engaging recommendation that the admissions office would appreciate. In any case, I really don’t think it could hurt your D since he wouldn’t have anything negative to say about her.
I think the question of campus visits (prior to applying) will really depend on each family’s circumstances. For us, we don’t feel visits are necessary until after the applications have been submitted and possible merit offers received. The cost and time constraints of visiting numerous campuses out of town are just not practical for our family until then. We feel we can find plenty of information online and in college guides to at least narrow down our dds’ application lists to about 10 schools without actual visits. For others, I’m sure college visits prior to applications are affordable, fun and informative! There’s no right or wrong answer – just a need to assess what would likely work best for one’s own situation.
I think the campus visit question might depend on the kid too. For S19, we visited every campus and tried to visit during the school year. He really wanted an active campus, so we needed to see what they were like in full swing. But now we are having to revisit for some scholarship weekends. So if we want had waited, we would still be seeing some of them now.
D20 doesn’t care as much about seeing the campus during the year. And her list spans FL to CA. So we are having her visit the ones in the SE between now and this summer, and then apply to Pepperdine and Baylor without a visit. She has already seen Pepperdine’s campus this past summer, although not on an official visit, and Baylor had a mandatory scholars weekend. So if she gets into Baylor and is eligible for the scholars weekend, we will visit then.
The accepted student visits are why I’m questioning the pre-admissions visit. I don’t want to invest the time and money into a first visit and then have to go back. Actually, it’s not so much the investment for us since I do believe there is a lot of value in visiting schools a student is serious about, it’s mostly the hassle of trying to figure out when to go. I’ve had health issues which make it difficult to travel and dd’s schedule is packed.
Being on the west coast and unable to visit many east coast schools, we have been told that demonstrated interested can be shown in many ways other than a physical visit. College reps will often visit high schools and they keep track of who attends their info sessions. Many schools also take their admissions sessions on the road. For instance, we went to a Wash U presentation in Los Angeles. Finally, many e-mails from schools ask you to confirm your interest in that school.
Regarding LOR, we were told that most schools would prefer an 11th or 12th grade teacher. A 10th grade teacher is okay if they know you in a different way (leadership, clubs, etc) but they want an 11th or 12th grade teacher to write about how you are in the classroom.
My D is an excellent student and works well with others but she is quiet and introverted. I hope that doesn’t hurt her recommendations. One LAC we are looking at has a teacher recommendation form that specifically asks about whether the student will contribute to class discussions and the answer would have be no at this point for my D.
