@Mom2aphysicsgeek That’s what I was thinking too, but the resulting result from the NPC doesn’t quite pass the smell test, for me. The Duke NPC is just the normal College Board NPC. They only ask basic financial info, so that could be part of the problem that you don’t know what’s going on under the covers. D17 never applied to a meets-need school (well, except for Duke come to think of it…but only due to Robertson), so I’m not clear how they represent the COA at the end, but I think it’s worth a call to the school to ask. That number just seems high to me, but I wouldn’t be shocked either way.
FWIW, I ran the Duke NPC (our EFC from when we D17 was looking was similar, so all my info was already in CB NPC) and came out with basically the same number. No surprise. I’m just wondering if the EFC they show is for both kids, and since they don’t know what you are spending at the other school, they don’t try to split it out? I dunno…
@bigmacbeth I don the think the amt you are spending for education on the other school matters. Your student could be attending a CC or full pay at an expensive school. Basically, they will take the amt they expect as your parental contribution and expect somewhere around 60%.
We went through this conversation with Case back when ds was going through the process. His older sister was graduating in Aug. One form asked for number of students in school in July another in either Aug or Sept. (can’t remember now.) Case gave him full 2 in school credit for that first school yr even though she was graduating and had only been attending a CC. Type of school or cost was never asked.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek@chb088 I re-ran Duke’s NPC to see the result when I said there was only 1 in school. It eliminated the roughly $14K “Scholarship/Grant”…so that is the amount they are providing for the second kid. Here are the numbers for each scenario (Round numbers, my data…typical EFC=$55K at most schools):
2 Kids in college:
College COA: $76K
Duke University Scholarship (Grant): $15K
Net Price: $61K
EFC: $54K <— What family would pay
1 Kid in college:
College COA: $76K
Duke University Scholarship (Grant): $0
Net Price: $75K <---- What family would pay
EFC: $89K
So, it looks like the NPC is ‘correct’, but scary for us donut-holers! As you said, Duke doesn’t look at ‘need’ in the same way we do…I’m just surprised how little an impact a second student is.
I think the confusion is, looking at FAFSA EFC, whereas many private schools use CSS Profile. Profile takes into account many more things than FAFSA, one of them being Home equity and is much more detailed. Do you have a large home equity ? If so, Duke considers that up to a certain % of your income to be available to pay tuition.
Also, when I tried the NPC on Duke or Penn (don’t remember which), they asked for exact tuition paid for child 1 too. The best case scenario is you pay about 60% for each kid (not 50-50)
These numbers are scary and there doesn’t seem to be an end in sight for college tuition increases.
@cbh088 If you didn’t note, retirement contributions are also added back in as available to pay for college. Retirement stability of parents is not a considered factor. We have a lot of kids spread over 21 yrs. According to college formulas, we should not contribute to our retirement fund from 2007 (our oldest’ freshman yr) to 2032 (when our youngest will graduate from college.) We’d be homeless if we paid our expected contribution for each of our kids!
Fwiw, the numbers don’t have to be scary. Just don’t get on the expensive school bandwagon. Kids can attend colleges that are a fraction of the cost and still go on to great careers. Frank Bruno and Malcolm Gladwell have great books about the student making the experience vs the experience making the student. That has been true for our kids. Great experiences, educations, and jobs at a fraction of the cost.
Yes S18 is at a great affordable IS school. Hopefully D20 also gets into a great and affordable IS school! Both were told that was their number 1 option!
@socaldad2002 yes a couple of hers will but several (and the most likely attending) will not. Good for your kiddo!
Just double checked. She’s applying to 5 State schools EA, and so her grades to those schools will only go thru junior year. Assuming she is admitted, none will ask for 1st semester grades, just her final transcripts after graduation. She does have 2 RD schools on her list though.
We are in the same situation in that California schools (9 UCs and 23 CSUs) only look at 10th and 11th grade grades and a standardized test w/essay. Grades need to be kept up senior year but they aren’t factored into admissions decisions.
@chb088 Nice! Yes, D20’s potential schools don’t use senior grades at all for admission, either. Her midyear report gets sent automatically by our HS to all schools she applies to, but unless there is a glaring issue, I think they are ignored. For purposes of admission and merit, it’s only through junior year. Will be doing a happy dance when junior year is complete.
S20’s schools only will look at 9-11. With testing out of the way, he knows his only job is keeping the grades where they have been so far. He has great teachers and has been extremely responsible and independent this year so I am hoping he can just hold steady…
Only other plans are to round out his list and start planning on what he will be able to get done next summer. S19 worked ahead but still has had a lot to do this past semester and I really want a little stress for our family next fall/winter.
@lkg4answers We are in NC. So she’s applying to a few in state and some nearby OOS schools. She does have some reaches on her list and 2 are going to be RD. But overall, I think she’s in good shape. This process was much more stressful with my S18!
Another point is some kids will take summer school between Jr/Sr years (e.g. for D20, Physics) which will definitely be considered. Also, I could see where the most selective of colleges that ask for mid-year senior grades to take that into consideration even if not officially factored into their GPA. Lots of kids will be taking their most challenging course load senior year and I would think colleges will want to see the consistent grades into the first half of senior year? Lastly, if a student had a "hiccup’ junior year, they may want to improve their application by getting and submitting their 1st semester grades to show a positive upward trend.
