@whataboutcollege If your child is up for the app, then no harm no foul. My D17 did this for both Grinnell and Rice, and came up empty. Grinnell happened to be on her list at the time, so it was worth a shot. They are definitely trying to target certain groups, so don’t be surprised by the outcome.
My daughter got the Swarthmore email today. Not exactly sure why she got it. Also we were getting the Questbridge mailings but don’t qualify for that.
To those that got the Swarthmore email, are your children considered URM?
My child is not considered an URM.
Interesting. Mine are and it seems as if every piece that targets URM assumes low income and/or first generation.
S20 is not URM. He has been receiving many Questbridge emails. I assume it is because he never put in any financial data when he was taking standard tests. Maybe this is why he received the Swarthmore email too.
So I attended a college admissions night with various college reps. It wasn’t terribly informative but I did learn that May 1st is a national deadline (not school-based) for applicants to decide on colleges and that more people are delaying their decision until April. They also suggested not trusting the rankings but to “do your research.” The problem is that I don’t know how to do that outside of rankings. How do we know what are the best colleges for a particular stem major outside of rankings? Any thoughts are appreciated.
@octagon - we look at internship/co-op opportunities, undergraduate research availability, on campus recruitment, job placement rate, freshman retention rate, class sizes, etc. We never really stressed over rankings.
I would put a heavy second on freshman retention rate and internship/co-op opportunities.
I like everything @mountainmomof3 said, and think you can’t go wrong with understanding how your student will be exposed to real world persons and experience in his/her field with assistance from and/or opportunities through the college.
Knowing the freshman retention rate is something of particular concern to us as we tied campus services support and non-loan aid to reasons students are able to keep their heads about them and finish up the first year (even if it is harrowing) and return the next year.
@mountainmomof3 That’s a good list. It’s hard to evaluate a school, or a specific program within a school, with a lot of those statistics. I think rankings are fine, but start lower. I hate USNWR rankings, but for D17 we started with schools that were, arbitrarily, in the top 200 or so. Then, we filtered based on some of those items in your list, and ones specific to D17’s criteria: COA-range based on expected merit, weather, % in-state students, location, research, sports team competitiveness, dining plans, no quarter system schools. Whatever is important to you that is a little more measurable, and doesn’t get watered down (like retention rates, which could be due to any number of things).
@Octagon Our list is a combo of @mountainmomof3 and @bigmacbeth. Merit $$ is a major factor in our kids’ decisions. Ranking does not enter into our decision making process at all. The obsession with ranking on CC and in certain segments of US communities does not reflect the real world outcomes of students across this country. By far, most companies care about resume, not name on diploma.
Our oldest is a chemE with a fantastic career. According to USNWR his school is RNP. He chose the school bc the profs work directly with the students; the U has an excellent relationship with industry with numerous co-op opportunities and on-campus recruiting, etc. He had paid on-campus UG research; he travelled internationally with his mentor prof to present research at an international symposium.
Our ds who is now in grad school at a top 5 program in his field chose his school based on the ability to do UG research and take grad level courses as an UG. (He finished all in-major courses sophomore yr.) When we toured and interviewed different depts, he asked pointed questions about research their UGs were doing, how they would deal with his entering with an unusual level of coursework completed as a freshman (he took 5 in-major courses for both math and physics degrees in high school at our local universities), what guidance they provided students toward grad school, etc. (We have always taken the approach that WE are interviewing them. We are the consumer; they are the product. We don’t put them in the driver’s seat—that is our position!!) The responses from various depts was incredibly enlightening.
He had one top school tell him that he had more direct research experience as a high school sr than their UG students. UG research was his #1 filter. He loved and continues to love research. He worked in a profs lab during high school and attended SSP. He wanted to step on campus and jump right in. Not all Us are equally open to freshman participating in research.
The school that ds had thought was going to be his top choice was 100% eliminated after our meeting with the dept. That dept visit was a nightmare. He had emailed the dean of the dept and requested an appt to talk about how the dept would work with him due to his coursework. When we arrived, the dean of the dept and the UG advisor were both present. They did not interact with him a manner at all expected. They grilled him about what texts he had used (in physics there are “gold standard texts” that are used in most depts across the country and those are what his Us used. One of the Us was one of the top Us in the state we lived in at the time.) The UG advisor openly mocked him and told him he needed to slow down and master content and that he was used to having top students from high school crying in his classes. Students never knew what they thought they did. They did not ask ds anything about his classroom experience, labs, etc. (Ds had the highest grade in every class he took and had profs writing LOR stating he was in the top 1% of students in their careers.) When ds asked them about UG research, their answers were unsurprising based on their attitudes—profs were too busy to work with UGs. UGs needed to seek out grad students to work with. When he asked where their UGs went after they graduated, they looked at each other for the answer. Neither one knew.
Compare that to where he ultimately attended. There the UG spent an hour taking him on tours of their labs, introducing him to profs, making arrangements for him to sit in on one of their 300 level courses. When we sat in his office talking, he and ds started talking about his experiences on the campuses where he had DE. Ds told him profs were constantly lending him books from their personal libraries bc he would go to their offices to ask questions outside of the scope of their classroom lectures. That UG advisor told him that he reminded him of himself at that age. (Completely different attitude, for sure!!!) That dept worked with ds exactly the way they had told him during his dept visit. It was an awesome UG experience.
Interview depts. Know their culture. Know how they view their UGs. If UG research is important to your student, make sure they tell you exactly what research their UGs are doing. If they want to co-op, ask where they are co-oping. If they want student professional groups, ask what groups are active on campus and a student contact. Ask what their UGs are doing after graduation. Research the dept. USNWR is basing their rankings on factors that are not directly related to UG experiences. UG experiences are the only ones that are going to matter to your student.
Yikes. I just read what I typed. Sorry for all the mistakes. Fwiw, it was the UG advisor at the school where he ultimately attended who spent all that time with him.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek, Gosh thank you.
Thanks @mountainmomof3, @Waiting2exhale @bigmacbeth @Mom2aphysicsgeek Very useful info! Can you filter these criteria on a college website or do you really need to visit a campus to get this info?
The only way to really see how a dept functions is by visiting.
@Mom2aphysicsgeek Thanks!
@Octagon When they say “do your research” they mean more than looking at national rankings. A lower-ranked school may be ranked higher in your desired major. But, also look things that are important to YOU (the student, not the parent): the size of the school, the size of the classes (for me, personally, it wasn’t important and my experiences were no better or worse in 300-student classes as they were in 12-student classes), how many students are in your major (large universities might have very few students wanting pursue feminist studies), the size of the surrounding community, dorms, food, Greek life, sports, clubs, honors colleges, distance from home, transportation opportunities to the closest airport, bicycle-friendly, music scene, marching band, ability to find internship opportunities, job rates among recent graduates, freshman retention rates, work-study opportunities, mentorships, undergraduate research, are classes taught by professors or TAs, weather, skiing, beaches, access to faith-based organizations, help for learning differences, access to mental health facilities, how anxious are students, outside lecture series, proximity to your favorite major league ballpark. Different things matter to different people. Think about what you want your college experience to be and find the college that best meets the criteria rather than trying to make yourself fit into a college just because it has prestige and a high ranking.
@tutumom2001 Thanks - I knew I could turn to CC for help with this! I wonder how you can tell how anxious students are. Do you talk to current students on campus or try to get a general vibe of the place?
It really depends on the kid. My first didn’t have a clear major or career goal when entering college so financial fit and social fit were more important. At the time, the thought of UG research was intimidating (yet he started working in a lab his 2nd year). Sitting in on a lecture would have provided no useful information. Instead, we spent a lot of time on campus where the students hung out and in the surrounding community (ate lunch on campus, went to the grocery store where kids shop, got ice cream in town, etc.). We did a lot of people watching.
We spoke to a department advisor about the major he was considering. She said, “Remember, your major is not you career. People that study biology aren’t all biologists.” I thought that was obvious but my child thought it was profound. You never know what parts of this process kids understand and what they don’t.
We determined financial fit and didn’t visit schools that weren’t within our budget. He determined social fit.
As parents, what we say has a lot of impact. Look at all of the kids on this site that are asking strangers what school they should go to. After a lot of research (on this site, Naviance, school websites), we knew what we thought were safeties, matches and reaches. In the weeks and months following the visits, we talked a lot about the positive attributes of the matches and safeties and less about the reaches. In the end, we were spot on with our prediction. He was denied by the reach school and accepted to his first choice.
I think talking to students would be a great place to start, especially if your child is lucky enough to know someone who is either at the school or recently graduated. High-school teachers and counselors might know your kid and how the climate of the prospective college would affect them. We’re lucky in that we have a large high school that sends kids pretty much everywhere so there is always someone you can turn to for a student perspective. Also, if you have a child who suffers from anxiety, you might want to second-guess sending them to a pressure-filled college where their stats are going to be on the lower end. But, it might not be a problem for a child who knows how to handle anxiety. Again, know what you need and find the college that fits your need.