@evergreen5 I would think that, in that case, they would look more closely at the transcript. Is the GPA lower because the student pushed themselves a bit too much and took a lot of APs but had a hard time getting As? Or is the GPA lower because they didn’t take weighted classes like APs or honors classes but still got As?
Not sure if you’re talking about weighted or unweighted.
I would say, in D21’s case, her GPA is “lower” because she got some Bs in some APs. She’s eeking into the top ten percent but got eight Bs over the course of six semesters - all in AP classes. But she did also get a lot of As in honors and AP classes too. Now, are there kids with her schedule who got fewer Bs? Yes. And there are kids who got fewer Bs and took even harder APs - they got farther in math and in science. She will not be competing against those from her high school anyway because they won’t apply to the schools on her list. Then, there are the kids who have a higher unweighted average but hardly took any honors or APs. I think she will do well compared to those kids since colleges look for rigor.
For comparison, S19 had six Bs. Mostly the same classes except he took BC as a junior and MV as a senior where D21 will be taking AB as a senior. He did pretty well in admissions. I’m not worried about D21’s Bs.
The points in all the articles are all salient, but, I think the point no one seems to be talking about is the lack of transparency. why is no one calling the colleges out on this? What does TO really mean? I am still confused about it, may be its just me. This whole situation is not fair to anyone.
My daughter declared last night that she is done with testing. She will not prepare for them any more and will go to a college that will take her with what she has right now and not punish her for things that are out of her control.
I just looked up the school district where D is supposed to take Aug SAT. They are remote for their first phase starting in Aug with no date that moves them to their next phase which is one day of in-person a week. Ugh. Called the district and they put me in touch with the asst principal at the high school and said she should know the SAT plan. I left a message and hopefully she will get back to me. And I looked at other options for a location and nothing is available within 75 miles. So, it’s her original school or bust. Her Sept SAT is at the district next door to us and they have not announced their fall plans yet.
Cancelled. Aug SAT cancelled. Asst principal super nice and said she was sorry. They just notified SAT on Friday and she said D should be getting an email from CB. They’d like to reschedule it for sometime in Sept if they go back to in-person class but D is already signed up for a different location for Sept.
I am wondering if the AOs could look at standardized state testing given at the school. Each state’s tests might be a little different, but they could tell within the state student is from if they fell in the top/middle/bottom percentile in testing. I think a couple standardized tests given at the school are listed on Ds unofficial transcript. I have never understood the numbers involved, but I think it gives a letter to indicate meets expectations/exceeds expectations, etc.
D does not study for standardized tests so I don’t think it was as big of a deal for her when 2 of hers didn’t happen. I just wanted a second chance at ACT which she got this month, which she didn’t think went too well, and one chance to take the SAT which is Sept. if the SAT doesn’t happen in Sept, I think she will be done.
I am surprised that colleges are not giving students the option to submit PSAT and PreACT scores given the current situation. S21 was lucky that he got in a December SAT, and he refuses to prepare for another test, so he will submit what he has rather than try to raise his ERW score, which had been a consideration at one point.
^Unless College Board were to change their website, there is no way to submit the scores. They could be self-reported, but there currently is no process to verify them.
In addition, there were issues with the Oct 2019 PSAT scoring (see e.g. the Compass Prep blog article about that).
I worry that because we are higher SES and privileged in many ways, an SAT score will be expected even at TO schools. I hope I’m wrong, but I feel like AO’s might think, why didn’t she take the test before March? Our reasoning was that she was still in Algebra II, so she wanted more time to learn the math, and her EC’s were particularly time consuming in the fall. She wanted to study over winter break and February break and we figured she would have plenty of time to get a score.
All of D’s friends studied early and have scores, and if this is the general case with our high school, I worry that AO’s will figure D took it but didn’t do well. Ugh. Hope you guys are right about all the ways schools have to validate grades and rigor.
@3SailAway “I worry that AO’s will figure D took it” sounds like overthinking. (If all test dates happen on schedule this fall, that would be one thing, but already there are spotty Aug cancellations.)
@SailAway24 exactly the same boat here. D21’s only saving grace (hopefully) is that her classmates who took a test and scored high aren’t applying to most of the schools she’s applying to. At some point, and certainly if tests are cancelled through Oct, we will just have to say it is what it is and D will just be TO with no excuses! Can’t look back and there won’t be anything else to do.
Thanks @evergreen5. I did read that article in the fall, so I know there were issues with that PSAT. I was just thinking it would be an option for some students who did OK and are stressing now, but it makes sense now that you say that scores cannot be sent. TO is really the best option for most students now, but I have always thought colleges should be more flexible and allow students to just send standardized scores that show them off best: SATs, ACTs, PSATs, APs, IBs, etc. Drexel is one college that has been on the cutting edge with this practice for years: students can send 2 SAT subject tests, 2 AP tests, or 2 IB tests in lieu of full SAT or ACT tests.
In terms of the articles about admissions officers figuring out how to compare students given TO and the disparities in terms of remote learning and grading policies – here’s my hot take: they will try to implement some new assessment process, but the reality is, admissions decisions will be more arbitrary and random than ever. There’s always been some randomness and that will be amplified this year. And, honestly, for top schools that doesn’t matter – they will have plenty of qualified applicants to choose from and which particular students they admit may not really matter from their perspective. As long as they’re not all STEM or all humanities and other student body balancing issues…
My kid is not applying to tippy top schools, except maybe Rice, but even so I’m going to make sure he has a good list and a solid, affordable safety. But in terms of acceptances, who knows what to expect? The old rules don’t apply (ha!) this year so I’m going to try to steer him away of thinking about where he should get admitted. and not take it personally.
Of course, this is easier said in July than during admit season. But if we tell kids it may be bumpy and unpredictable for reasons outside of their control, maybe this will lessen some of their stress? I think it will for my kid, at least. I do realize for some kids that have been working really hard gunning for a tippy top school this likely is a less than satisfying message b/c it undermines their efforts over the past several years. So maybe saying this would make some kids more stressed, or at least bummed. But something to think about for your own kid, at least.
Anyway, those are my somewhat rambling thoughts on the topic.
@momandslp@evergreen5 Does the student’s school get an official PSAT/pre-ACT score? It seems like the school could send the PSAT/pre-ACT score or add to transcript for validation? Some students may not find their PSAT/pre-ACT score one that they would like to submit, but if they did, it seems like the HS could provide this informaiton if college board or testing agency could not?
@1Lotus. That is sort of what I was wondering. It doesn’t benefit my S21 as his PSAT and December SAT are pretty much in line with each other, but for some students, it might be advantageous if colleges considered it. I suppose students could include it on the resume on the Common App if it was to their advantage. They could still apply TO.
I agree that this year admission may be more unpredictable. At holistic schools there has always been things that are just out of the students control. All AO’s have implicit biases. This it may come in to play a bit more this year. I think the schools that have been TO for years will be able to adjust to the volume of TO applicants. They know what to look for in an applications without test scores, and they have data of which types of TO students have been successful at their school. I have know idea how it would work at a very large school like Penn State, maybe they are using algorithms to help speed up the process.
It’s Virginia Private College Week- attend virtual presentations at 3 schools, get application vouchers to any 3 schools. We needed a third (she’ll apply to 2- $100 saved!) so out of curiosity just listened to Roanoke College. They are 65-89% admit rate (RD-ED) and said please send PSAT if you didn’t get a chance to take the SAT.
Our district school board votes tonight about our return to school- the superintendent just released that he is recommending 100% virtual. We have had 2 solid weeks of the board debating between 3 different 2-3 day return models, never 100% for all (always a 100% virtual option with each scenario). Devastated is an understatement. D and I are headed out to the rally in 100 degree temps. We have to feel like we are doing something.
@Rue4 As school start approaches, I think more schools are leaning towards 100% remote. All I can say is that, if that’s the plan, I hope teachers are ready for it. Likely, the reason for all remote is the teachers not wanting to come to school. It was one thing to finish school remote but I just don’t see how they can start the school year all remote. And it’s a slippery slope, no? If class is remote then all of the teachers with kids will be home with them while they try to teach ALL day long. I don’t get how that works either. It’s like them having their kids tag along with them at school all day long. No babysitters during the day because all of the teenagers are home doing remote school! For those schools planning remote, I’m dying to see how they plan on running their classrooms, tests, assignments, etc.
Where we are, the entire district is starting remote (though individual students have opted for either 100% in-person or 100% remote for the semester - but for now, they simply aren’t holding the in person classes, so those students who opted for in-person won’t get that method until the district decides to open the buildings to students). However, the teachers are expected to teach their remote classes from the school buidlings…not from home (with some exceptions):
“Teachers will report to their schools to deliver their digital lessons, participate in staff development, and collaborate with their fellow teachers to make digital instruction more effective for their students. For some employees, reporting to school may be difficult for a number of reasons. Principals will work with the staff members at their school to address individual concerns and make accommodations where possible. Those who are allowed to work from home will be expected to come to the school periodically to work with other school staff and leaders.”
We had already decided on 100% remote - we certainly prefer in-person, but we don’t feel our district has a solid plan for distancing…no hybrid schedules, a bad lunch plan, and zero attempt to de-densify and distance on buses. We also just didn’t trust how/when the decision would be made for the schools to close if needed (a lot of parents who chose in-person were really worried last week when the school district was still saying they’d be opening in-person as expected despite the horrific virus trends around here…we didn’t want to be at their mercy for that decision, so we just opted to take control and go with 100% remote).