@homerdog – Yes, most privates don’t give credit for DE courses, but the publics in our state are required to do so. It’s a great tool to increase college affordability and access. I have worked in this policy space, and I would say the strongest DE states are TX, WA, NC and OH. IL in general does not have a very strong CC system so I’m not surprised you see less DE.
Also, DE tends to be used the most in smaller (often, but not always, rural) districts that may have fewer AP options or in districts where they’ve developed strong partnerships. DE has not really been a thing at my kids’ HS until this year when parents and students are giving them more consideration b/c of remote learning first semester. CC courses are also remote but have wider offerings. For example, my S has looked at some coding classes. I don’t think he’ll end up taking one, but he’s intrigued!
Our DE classes are mostly taught by regular HS teachers, the poli sci class D is taking in taught on the college campus but none of the others are. Mostly for the reasons mentioned by @homerdog my middle 2 have never bothered to take the dual credit. I figured I was just paying money unnecessarily for no benefit, and creating another transcript that needed dealt with for grad/professional school applications.
S18 was always more likely to go to the state flagship, where he did end up eventually. So his credits transferred easily. He didn’t do that many DE classes, but he did satisfy his history distribution requirement, and more importantly his chemistry requirement. So that was nice. If he could have picked his final school or major a bit quicker it probably would have let him graduate in 3 1/2 years, but that’s another story already discussed in a couple of old threads.
All of our DE classes get credit through the CC for the less academic classes or through the local directional for the more academic ones. So for kids who end up at one of those places or the state flagship (which is probably 80-90% of the collegebound population) those classes transfer pretty easily. The one issue is that a few are going to end up as general electives (S18 had this happen with a personal finance class and an education class).
I have a friend who’s kids’ school gets their DE classes through an in-state LAC. Those credits did not transfer easily. I don’t think her son got anything at all from it at the state flagship. Her daughter went to that LAC, and even for their own DE classes they would only offer general credit. So she ended up having to retake some of the classes, and had all of her free electives plus more already filled when she set foot on the campus as a freshman.
We have exactly one dual enrollment course at our HS (and it is “long distance” with our state flagship, not the local cc), but I was surprised to learn that one of the other schools in our HS district (there are 4) has many DE courses with the local cc (it is within blocks of the CC; maybe the kids are bussed over there since it’s about a two minute drive). That school has about half the AP offerings as our HS.
I think I’d rather just have my kid take the AP courses; seems cleaner to me. I’m already dreading the logistics of getting credit at a future school with this one DE math class that my daughter is taking this year.
@dadof4kids – DE classes in many states are free to families – at least the states that have really pursued them as a way to make more seamless transitions between HS and college.
The very few DE classes at S21’s (small, Catholic) school are offered through a Catholic university here in PA and are taught by the HS teachers. They are registered as students at the Catholic university (my S19 still has his ID!) and they have a transcript from the university. We pay extra for these classes on top of the tuition we already pay, but it’s less than what the what the college courses would cost if actually enrolled at the university.
The high school always provides a list of which schools in PA don’t accept the credits. It’s a very short list. Unfortunately, it seems as though my Catholic, Jesuit alma mater in Maryland where S21 wants to go only accepts DE if the students actually attends class at the college. Hopefully, the rigor of the DE classes will help out in the merit department and offset what we’re paying for them. S21 is taking 12 freaking DE credits this year.
The variety in approaches to DE is interesting. Here in VA, DE is taught by HS teachers in the HS classroom. The teacher must have a masters degree in the subject, and then apply to be certified to teach the DE course. My D has maxed out on Spanish and finally there is a teacher in the school who is DE certified and she can take Intermediate College Spanish this year after taking Spanish 1-6 and AP. It does get a .5 GPA boost (like honors), but is viewed as a lower level class than an AP, but at least she can continue. Many families heavily favor DE, because there is automatic college credit all all in state public schools and in the vast majority of graduates choose an in state public. It won’t do you much good if planning to go out of state, and does not show the same level of rigor a taking APs if a student is looking at highly selective schools. My D21 will end up with one DE math and one DE Spanish course because there were no other higher level classes available. My D’22 will take DE English and DE US History this year instead of APs because she will likely follow the in state public route where DEs will net her more in the end.
*Edited to add we do pay a small fee for them- I think around $150 a course, and they are on the HS transcript and are associated with a community college.
Wow. I have to wonder how AOs “look” at DE classes. Some of us say they are rigorous and some do not think they are. I know that our CC classes are not as rigorous as our AP classes or a four-year college class. Many kids in engineering programs take calc over the summer at our CC because it’s way easier than taking it at Purdue or UIUC and those schools do accept the credit.
Just as another data point, I have a friend in CA whose college daughter has taken some CC classes over her summers and her mom told me that they don’t compare at all to her college classes but they do transfer so it’s a cheap way to get some credits.
For an AO looking at DE classes on an application, how do they figure out the rigor? Maybe, if the AOs are educated about the states from which they read apps, then they know the deal with the DE classes there. Having one or two DE classes is one thing but having a slew of them on a transcript seems like it could be confusing when evaluating.
Yes, I would much prefer our D to take an AP rather than our local DE, but since the ONLY choice is between AP physics 2, regular agricultural science, regular French 1, regular art 1, an open period or DE bio, the DE bio seems like the logical choice (for a non-engineering/non-computer science kid). I could worry unduly about what an AO might think, or decide to prioritize my D’s mental health this year
Our school just bumped back start date to 9/8 and we will be virtual first quarter. They are still planning to have fall sports and band and plan to still offer SAT and ACT at the school for August and September dates with the seats split alphabetically and safety measures like travel restrictions, temp checks and masks required…hopefully CB wont cancel and they can get enough proctors…
I saw that article yesterday and was surprised that it wasn’t even quite half the students -I guess either more students will have test scores (or multiple test scores) than I’ve been thinking or more schools are going to be cancelling this week so that the percentage goes way up over 50%.
Our D took Spanish 4 last year as a dual credit class, and as part of her regular in-school schedule. It was with a local LAC, not a CC, which would somehow qualify as dual credit,. Dual enrollment is with a CC, but that isn’t really done at her school (to @AlmostThere2018’s point, the CC system in IL, especially Chicago, isn’t great).
Anyway, D didn’t have a choice – all level 4 language classes and some level 3 are dual credit at her school. I have no idea how/if it was weighted, and I can’t imagine she’d get actual college credit unless she went to that school (it is guaranteed in that case). Still, it might have been the easiest class she has taken in high school, and it’s the reason she’s not taking AP Spanish next year. She says there is no way she is ready for AP after essentially a year off. Super disappointing.
Our school offers a ton of DE classes with the CC or UT On Ramps. For the CC classes the kids are bussed to the CC and for On Ramps a HS teacher facilitates the class since the professor is at UT.
All DE and AP classes are weighed the same and kids take a mix of the classes. The counselors recommend DE if you know you want to attend a school in TX and AP if you think you want out of state.
A small number of our students graduate with an associates and only have to pay for 2 yrs to finish their bachelors.
Just in…finally something to be happy about in our school district. Announcement just made by our school board that the reason August/Sept SATs were cancelled at our school was because College Board did not allow the restriction of students from other (presumably higher-Covid) areas.
For the safety of our students and community, two in-school SAT tests will be offered to our high school students in October…dates and details to be announced later. Yippee!!, Sounds as if this will happen whether or not there is brick-and-mortar schooling otherwise.
Neither of my kids attended schools where DE courses were an option. The fact that they aren’t weighted at some schools would drive me crazy. All the gaming around ranking does not benefit the student! I would hate for my kid to have to decide NOT to take a CC course that would really benefit them because their rank would take a hit. I feel for those of you who live in states like TX where HS rank matters so much to gain admission into the better public universities. Sorry your D has to make that hard choice @inthegarden
Thanks, @mamaedefamilia …actually my D won’t get the hit in rank from the DE course, which will be weighted here like an AP . It’s more of a matter of an AO (correctly, in this case) judging it to be of less rigor than the AP Bio she wanted to take. Her GPA/rank will be hit by taking honors Spanish 5 instead of the only available AP class left to take (physics 2), which she had never planned to take. The AP bio class she wanted would have taken up two class periods and gotten double credit so she had two class periods to fill.
I too saw that article. It would be interesting to know the % of students who were able to test at all. I guess the test companies are not motivated to release that kind of information, but it sounds like perhaps a majority couldn’t take ACT even once this year, and many for the SAT. And then there is the lack of opportunity for repeat tries past applicants had. I’m getting more comfortable with the idea of TO at a lot of S’s schools since there will be a lot of other applicants in that boat with S, I’d expect.
Our county is very liberal and a lot of mask wearing has been going on plus some hot spot no gatherings education. The new cases for the whole county went down to 24 yesterday. BUT the UC school students are beginning to return to the campus area and bringing cases. I believe some of the test supplies are low as well. Allegedly the university area housing is 100% booked even though the university log ago declared 100% online. S’s small catholic school has pushed back the opening and is poised to go in person with a 2 week mandatory waiting period. I feel like the college kids will party and blow that up. In the meantime, ACT is supposed to be October in school, but it’s so up in the air with our numbers.
We are having a heat wave and on the coast with no central air (rarely need it). S slogging through essays and summer AP English assignments with not a lot of zeal at the moment.
Our kids’ school doesn’t rank and didn’t implement weighting until a few years ago. I don’t think not having weighting affected college admissions. But, it did affect who got into Cum Laude Society. I know not all schools have this, but a school can elect the top 10% of the class junior yr, and an additional amount up to 20% senior year. Before weighting, kids without rigor ended up in Cum Laude over those with all APs. As you can imagine, kids/parents of those with rigorous schedules didn’t like this! (Both kids made it! It was important because D always thinks S is the “smart” one).
Some seniors at our kids’ school had Senior Sunrise (new), not school sanctioned, without social distancing or masks. Our kids didn’t go. I hate how this virus seems to have divided even the senior class based mainly on political persuasion. But on a positive note, the school is doing the best it can to plan some socially distanced senior events, while following government guidelines.
This is the second week of virtual school! It’s actually going pretty well. I was skeptical of the 2 hr classes, but they’re doing breakouts with group work. So, neither says it feels too long.
S18 is moving back into the dorm today at Richmond. They have done so much to try to keep the virus in check, but if kids go out partying, ugh. Our S already had covid, but I know he really doesn’t want to have to move back home, so hopefully he will follow, and encourage others to follow, the rules! One can always hope…?
Well, football practice (and all practices) shut down today after a positive test. All practices shut because, of course, contact tracing revealed he was at a party this past weekend so a bunch of kids across all teams and beyond potentially exposed. Fantastic!!!
