Of course, but you really have no way of knowing if they actually “fit”. They may think they do, but then find out it’s truly not a fit. And sometimes what they think is fit is actually perceived prestige. On other words, “I’m top of my class, therefore the name brand school is where I best fit”. But you know as well as anyone that you can find your people at any school .
Son’s GC identified Duke, GT, Hopkins, Rice and some others as a good fit for him. Clearly she doesn’t know him, but only his academic profile - which is not his defining criteria for “fit”.
And how many school lists do you see posted here where the only thing they have in common is brand name? It’s kind of comical when someone says they’re applying to Brown and Columbia for example.
@GoldPenn thank you for verbalizing how I feel. We felt that S21 picked a good balance of reach, target, and foundation schools, but as I see others getting acceptances and my son really hasn’t other than his foundation I’m wondering if perhaps this year targets are more like reaches.
I really hate everything about this process honestly. It is hard to watch your son worry about how he’s being judged when he really has, for the most part, done well within his ability. Could he have done more or better? Sure, they all could, but he worked really hard to get where he is, usually without much complaint either.
It is so frustrating and worrisome after 4 years of prep to get here, he may not get into any of his top choices.
@GoldPenn – for my high stats D18, we defined a safety as a school where her stats were above 75th percentile AND the overall acceptance rate was more than 50%. For her that was an in-state public and one private where she was chasing merit. She did get into both.
Also a reminder to all that sometimes high stats kids don’t get into ‘safer’ colleges b/c the admissions folks don’t think they would attend if admitted. This is unfort. for some students who really would consider it and is a reason to make sure to show interest to safeties too!
As an aside, I say this knowing my S has been pretty slack about demonstrated interest in general this cycle. He has little interest in online sessions and told me he doesn’t think ‘they really matter.’ He can be stubborn and prefers to do his own research via youtube, etc. I made sure he did at least one online session at each college (two if he hadn’t done an in-person visit) and he did interview where offered. So, basically, at least ‘two touches’ which isn’t a lot, in my book. I really hope his decision not to do more doesn’t come back to haunt him!
Just logging on again for my second child, a 2021. He just submitted his ED application to Amherst. He has a 34 ACT from Sept. of Junior year, a 3.71 UW/4.10W GPA from a rigorous private school, 8 APS, the usual extracurriculars, work, etc. He is a legacy (father, grandfather and Uncle) and honestly I hope that helps, not sure how much. Now he needs to come up with the plan B for deferral, rejection. He really wants a small liberal arts colleges and wants to be on the East coast.
@19and21 No shortage of small liberal arts colleges on the east coast. My alma mater Lafayette College would fit the bill. Have him take a look at it if he hasn’t already
We have a good friend who is a Lafayette grad and his sister looked at it when she was applying. I liked the school a lot and Easton is a cute town. Will have him do his own research. Thank you for the suggestion
@GoldPenn Your D has a well-balanced list. I would bet that she’ll be accepted to MoHo, Bryn Mawr, and Dickinson, and probably Smith, along with her EA schools. You never know about reaches, but I have a hunch she’ll get into Grinnell and Vassar as well as a few of the others. FWIW, last year my D with similar stats was accepted to MoHo and Grinnell with merit. (She didn’t apply to the other matches or safeties.) These final weeks of waiting for ED are tough, keep the faith!
@flyawayx2 UPitt is a favorite state flagship in ACC with Georgia Tech and it has rolling admission with a decision 4-6 weeks after application. For a kid applying to MIT, it could be a safety. D18 is a junior premed at Pitt with friends in engineering that love it, and D21 was just admitted recently. Pittsburgh is a great town and the University is handling Covid pretty well. It is a relief to have a good, affordable (in state here) option before Thanksgiving. Good luck!
@GoldPenn Also, if Midd doesn’t go your way in Dec, Grinnell gives early acceptances on RD apps during the first week of Feb. S19 got that acceptance in Feb and $25k merit so that was great to have while waiting for the rest of RD. I want your D to get into Midd but I also want to see where else she gets in. Lol! If Midd it is then all other apps are null!
Random response but we made an informal visit to U of Denver to visit my sons friend. I thought the campus was gorgeous and comparable to many small colleges we visited on the East Coast. We have 2 friends there - one kind of a sorority girl and one more quirky / artsy and they both really love it. Both parents are also pleased with their experiences thus far. ( a soph and a freshman)
@homerdog My D didn’t get the early acceptance to Grinnell, which added to her anxiety, so her acceptance with merit was a nice surprise. If they had taken her early, she would have been able to visit and may have enrolled. She was very taken with Grinnell, loved the idea of a school that had lots of international students and fewer students from the East Coast, but ultimately decided to stay closer to home.
On one hand, I see what you’re saying re the comical debating ED to Dartmouth or Columbia and it often makes you wonder how much research has been done.
IS IT FIT? OR IS IT PRESTIGE?
On the other hand, re fit being perceived as prestige, I think that’s a bit of a cynical view, though certainly understandable. Here’s what we learned. My D21 did very detailed analyses of several LACs which resulted in a large taped-together spreadsheet marked up with a highlighter. She looked at a lot of different aspects but the most helpful one was comparing course offerings in American Studies and Women’s/Gender Studies (her potential majors), with extra points given to colleges offering courses in linguistics and disability studies. The differences in course offerings is profound, and for a student like my SJW D21, this exercise was extremely helpful. What we discovered is the three LACs with the greatest number of social-justice focused courses are, hand-down, Amherst, Williams, and Middlebury. No other LAC on the list comes close. Those three schools also have the strongest COVID response which is another aspect my D analyzed (she ideally wants to be on campus in the fall). So yes, they are name brand schools, but I would argue they’re also the best fit.
My daughter really, really struggled with where to ED at those top three with the best courses. She loves Amherst for the diversity, the open-curriculum, the consortium, and the eclectic college town. She loves Williams for the tutorials, the perceived warmer-fuzzier vibe than Amherst, and for their spectacular COVID response which is the best of the three. And she loves Middlebury because they offer disability studies and linguistics, they have the best food, they’re the only one that’s carbon-neutral, and it too has a warm and fuzzy vibe. I think these are all reaches for any kid, and D21 will likely be happy at Mt Holyoke or Grinnell, or any of the other schools on her list where she may end up. But arguably, there are good reasons for her top three.
In case anyone is interested in comparison of COVID-response (because I think we will still be dealing with this in the fall):
AMHERST
*Freshmen/Sophomores attend in-person Fall term; Juniors/Seniors attend in-person Winter term (there are exceptions)
*Single rooms only
*COVID testing twice weekly
*The one dining hall is grab-and-go only
*Students are not permitted to leave campus
*Course load reduced from 4 to 3, with more pass/fail options granted
*Summer earnings and campus job waived; financial aid accounts automatically credited with grant of roughly $4,600
MIDDLEBURY
*All students back on campus for both Fall and Winter terms
*Singles and roommates
*COVID testing upon arrival and at random periodic intervals
*3 dining halls open for grab-and-go and distanced in-dining; students must use dining hall to which they are assigned
*Students permitted to venture into town
*Course load stays the same at 4 courses; grading appears the same
*Summer earnings and campus job not waived; students can apply for additional COVID-related aid.
WILLIAMS
*All students back on campus for both Fall and Winter terms
*Singles (and I believe roommates)
*COVID testing twice weekly
*Three dining halls open, two for grab-and-go and distanced in-dining, and one for grab-and-go only
*Students permitted to venture into town
*Course load reduced from 4 to 3, with pass/fail options available on most
*Summer earnings and campus job waived; financial aid accounts automatically credited with grant of roughly $4,600
*Tuition reduced by 15%; financial aid increased by 15% in form of grant (in addition to roughly $4,600 credit)
**Side note re D21’s observation: Amherst is using disposable, biodegradable grab-and-go containers, while Williams steps it up with reusable grab-and-go containers that are placed in bins around campus to be washed.
@GoldPenn I am with you. I’m an optimist and will do all I can when S21 asks for help, but his ED is super reach with 6.7% rate last year. The realist engineer in my thinks he will get into a UC. He’s top 4% and I think he’s guaranteed to get into one.
If he gets into his reaches, it’ll be amazing for him. If he only gets into a UC, it’ll be amazing for my budget ?
@GoldPenn I agree with your entire post. I just don’t know if many people consider things like carbon-neutral campus or good food, etc. but for some of us it does make a difference. I think housing and food is pretty important. S19 is very very busy with academics and XC/track and to be able to always get amazing meals and have a big, new room with big windows makes us feel like he’s being taken care of. I have so many friends whose kids are eating like crap and are constantly saying they don’t like the food on their campuses and either want money to eat out or want their parents to send staples like mac and cheese they can cook themselves.
And Covid response is important too. I don’t think it’s important to everyone though or no one would even be applying to schools that have completely botched that.
Top schools offer great academics of course but many times they also offer the extras that make it worth applying if you can either afford it or will get your financial needs met.
@GoldPenn – I think deep dives into course offerings is so important for LACs if a student knows their interests. My D18 is a budding (ha!) plant / ecology biologist and knew she was headed that direction in HS. She was all over the map at first and applied to big, medium and small schools. But as she gravitated more toward LACs, it was clear many just didn’t have the specialized plant /evolutionary bio courses she was looking for and they came off the list – Midd and Haverford are two I remember off the top of my head (I know Haverford has the consortium, but that always seems like something that happens more on paper than reality.).
It was amazing the differences she found. Big variations in the number and types of bio electives. I was amazed when she showed me the results of her efforts. Another thing she checked was how often classes are offered – not always easy to find – b/c there are courses that sit on the books for ages but are rarely, if ever, taught.
Not all kids need to do this – but if you’ve got specific interests and are considering an LAC, it’s an imperative, IMHO!
So kudos to your kid for all her research! A girl after my own heart. And I agree w/ others that she’s got a good, balanced list.
I did a little research on the the make up of Alabama. In 2019 58% of the undergraduates were from OOS and slightly less than 40 were from instate. The largest OOS students were from Georgia comprising of about 8% and 5% are from Illinois which is the fourth largest OOS contingent. CA about 4% as well.
@GoldPenn thank you for the information on Williams. If anyone has anything else to share about that one, like vibe, please do. S will apply RD.
@AlmostThere2018 as usual, we are in the same boat. There is no appetite here for virtual presentations. We might catch up on a little DI over the winter break for his RD schools that track. Luckily we visited some targets before Covid but I also feel vulnerable to yield protection in some places.
In a way I feel fortunate that we didn’t have S’ better test score until October, because I hope that all of those target EAs bring good news. We’ll see. If unlucky in EA round, we can add a couple of rolling safeties but hopefully that won’t happen. I can’t wait to hear from SCU. If he doesn’t get in there EA I’m going to sweat it. I do feel like SCU may be more competitive this year. I’m having to reign dad in a bit with the reaches he’s throwing out there. 3-4 is plenty and I don’t we have any business entertaining schools under 8-9% reach level.
Finally, in a fresh podcast (College Admission Brief) with the Georgia Tech guy, sounds like their early apps are up, and I believe he said he expects apps up at big, well known flagships like UW, UCSB. He speculated that overall apps would be down still though, and that the process will be more drawn out this year - longer waitlists, etc., some classes not being filled until July. Sounded like maybe the drivers are gung ho and the passengers are late, to use Jeff Selengo’s lingo. I want to hear what Jeff has to say about the early round since no doubt he will have his ear to the ground.
@NateandAllisMom Us dads are like that, we love our reaches. But, D21’s reaches will be almost entirely our CA public schools. The best programs for D21’s preferred major are the CA publics in her case.
Not sure if everyone knows this already, but there are a few schools out there that do track how often an applicant logs into their portals. So, have your 21’s occasionally login. It’s one way to track an applicant’s demonstrated interest. For example, I know Lehigh had a reputation for it in the past.
That’s interesting about the portals. @GoldPenn that’s a great list. I would move Smith to a reach though, I think their % admitted is significantly lower than Mount Holyoke.
The differences between kids is so interesting to me. Mine has the stats to be a good candidate for the small prestigious LACs or Ivys, but she wants big state U (and we are full pay and can’t afford the LAC/Ivy full price tag either). I think she wants to take her foot off the gas a bit after being in a competitive HS. Her list has a bunch of safeties.
Here are her stats and list for comparison (poss Bio, environmental science or digital art major):
GPA 4.6W/4.0UW, ACT 36, 11APs, Class rank top 6.75%, Class officer, leadership position in main summer/yearlong EC
Safeties: Arizona (admitted), UT Dallas (admitted), University of Houston, Univ South Florida, Univ Central Florida
Matches: UMASS, Mount Holyoke, Univ San Francisco, Trinity (TX)
Reaches: UT Austin (non-auto admit), USC (CA), Boston University
She still needs to finish her USC and UCF applications. And her BU application but I think she may drop BU. So. Many. Essays!!!