@inthegarden This is great information. I think we’ve all been wondering how things would work out for test-optional students and this is so good to hear. Thanks for sharing!
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@Creaky, @purplemama, I was really worried about this. My D goes to a really obscure public high school that sends very few students to T-100 LACs/private universities or OOS public schools except for one very generous OOS flagship nearby. Probably fewer than five kids per year (of about 180) go outside the regional/state mold. When one student was admitted to Harvard a few years ago, it made the headlines of the newspaper. Most go to local and regional community colleges, the directional one town away. The higher-ranked students tend to go to our state flagship or second-best state school, mostly for economic reasons. I’d say we have no ongoing relationship to any of the schools talked about regularly on CC other than our very decent but non-elite flagship. Data point of one, but our D was admitted anyway. W&M is not tippy-top by CC standards but not a particularly easy admit, especially OOS, and it seems that my D’s very average public school from a poor corner of our state did not keep her out. Maybe it even helped, diversity-wise. I don’t know of any student in at least ten or twelve years who has gone there from our town. Now (surprise, surprise) three of D’s school friends (who are also in the top group in her school) are interested in applying ED2 or RD, so it will be interesting to see what happens.
Having said this, she did submit SAT scores and her super-score composite was well above the fifty percentile mark of past year’s scores (not to the 75% mark though, and very lop-sided scores). Had she applied test-optional from her obscure school I can’t say what would have happened.
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The reason for Cornell’s submission of scores being so low is because only 3 of their 7 colleges were test optional and the other 4 were test blind (not considering scores at all), so when you consider that probably half the candidates applied to the other schools (I should really look at the data breakdown from the last couple of years) it may just be that more than half of the students really submitted test scores.
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@yearstogo With all due respect, none of this is fair. It’s not fair that families invested hundreds, sometimes thousands in test prep, only to have tests canceled. It’s not fair that students studied between each test, registered for the next test only to have it canceled again. It’s not fair that students from elite/competitive schools known to colleges have a better chance of acceptance than students attending unknown schools, and that it matters more this year. It’s not fair that students struggle to get references from teachers when school is online and they don’t know their teachers. There is so much that isn’t fair. If your son attends a competitive school and was lucky enough to take the SAT despite cancelations, even with his top college test-blind, it would appear he is more privileged than most.
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For months all of these expert counselors have been saying that applications will be much lower everywhere. Thus far that has not been the case. They have constantly been saying to people this is going to be a great year for the Class of 2021 to be seniors as they will get into schools they never thought they would ever get into because of the lower applicants. Every counselor seems to have told their clients to apply to reach schools no matter what. I think the lower level schools are going to be the ones hurting and I think there will be a lot of students being given misguided advice that in a few months may be scrambling to be placed at a college because they took this advice and didn’t apply to the schools that they should have applied to.
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Last year we heard the parents of Class of 2020 whining and I didn’t think they had it so bad, and yeah our kids class of 2021 kind of have it bad with being the guinea pigs of this college experiment and in some cases like my kid never having been in school yet this year and most likely not being in school period, but I have to agree, I think current juniors and probably sophomores really have it worse and I thank god every day that I don’t have any elementary aged kids. But the sophomore and junior kids not having the ability to really have great relationships with their teachers and other staff at the high school, to have true engaging activities at school instead of just on a zoom, having then to ask these teachers for recommendations later this year when these teachers hardly know these kids and their true potential. It makes me sad. My son was fortunate that 3 of the teachers he had last year he has a gain this year and one he had soph year, junior year and is a teacher assistant for this year. Some of them have known him all 4 years. Remote sucks to me but he doesn’t mind it, but maybe because his teachers already know him for the most part. He doesn’t care about missing homecoming, going to football games, or possibly prom, but these other kids and what they are missing and going on a year is really just a bummer and the social emotional and mental piece that is lacking is really worrisome.
We are all mourning things for our kids and there’s always something unfair but everyone is impacted in some fashion.
And unlike many others who don’t even have internet access in their homes, much less a computer, I thank god everyday that my family has food on their tables every day and a roof over their head. This is privilege. And many do not have what so many of us here have and we should all appreciate it and understand that for those of us who come from good schools and have been able to squeeze a test in, we should be grateful and never say it is unfair because many have not and honestly, shame on anyone who whines that it is unfair for those opportunities and advantages that so many are fighting for their children to have every day!
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@srparent15 Really well said. There are so many students who’ve lost so much, including my D21’s best friend whose dad died due to covid-related cardiac arrest. They have 4 kids with 1 in college, 1 applying to college, and 1 in middle school. Yes he had life insurance but not enough to put 3 more kids through college and maintain a standard of living. The family has suffered financial impact along with the emotional devastation of such a shocking loss. Then there’s the high-schooler in my neighborhood who died of covid pneumonia three weeks ago. Kid seemed fine, tested negative, had mild symptoms and was dead 5 days later. There is such an incredible amount of suffering in the world right now.
It’s sad that our kids are missing rites of passage such as prom, graduation ceremonies, and college tours. It’s stressful that the rules for college admissions have changed. I get it. But when people in our country are dealing with job loss, evictions, bankruptcy, illness, and loss of loved ones, I find it pretty difficult to think that any of us has been dealt an unfair hand due to changes in college admissions. Part of what I love about this group is that we’re all worried about the same things and it makes me think life is normal again. I love debating the merits of various colleges and talking about all things admissions. We all want the best for our kids, for their hard work to be rewarded with admission to their dream school, and for them to be happy and thriving wherever they end up. But at the end of the day—with parents as supportive as the ones in this group—all of these kids are privileged.
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@srparent15 I agree that people are impacted in many ways. Regarding class of 2020, they started college in a particularly crappy fashion-- online, masked, no activities, no clubs, no dining halls, very little social interaction (based on parent page chatter there were a lot of kids feeling very isolated and lonely and struggled academically). But it’s not a contest. The pandemic has created a constant low level of stress for everyone, and high levels of stress for many. It impacts different age groups in different ways, and different professions, socioeconomic levels, and even personalities in different ways. The reality is that unprecedented levels of teens and young adults have had suicidal ideation over the last 8 months or so, and for parents that is sobering. Of course you already know all of these things, I’m just thinking out loud and adding to your comment. Everyone is doing the best they can and you’re right, we should be especially thankful if our health and income are still in good shape considering what the country is going through.
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Maybe these experts were victims of their own success? Like everyone believed them and, with the added inducement of test-opt, decided to apply to reaches they have no business applying? So now, we are seeing these unbelievable 60% increase in EA apps at MIT, 36% increase at Cornell, etc.
I think there’s a chance that kids get in where they would not have if they had needed to send a score. Some TO kids have everything else they would need for acceptance but just not a score in range. Maybe not likely to happen at places like Ivies but schools with 25-30% acceptance rates will be finding TO kids to accept with strong transcripts, ECs., essays etc
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Agreed. I’ve been scrolling the Yale thread and some of those ECs are just SO impressive! Hard to believe that kids with USAMO medals or articles published in the NYTimes wouldn’t be able to get an in-range test score if given a chance to take or retake a couple times. But yea, for the mere mortals with the average “strong transcript, ECs, essays, etc” – some of them will get into schools with 25-30% accept rate, thanks to TO. So maybe the types of schools that’ll be super competitive this year are those in the 25-30% accept rate range.
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We heard from a few AOs that in the absence of ACT/SAT score they will be taking a closer look at AP scores due to the classes being so different depending on the school.
The ND AO said submit your SAT/ACT score if you have one when answering a question about scores in the lower range, yet experts say only submit if above 50 percentile.
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Our school profile shows the number of kids taking each AP and mentions that “91% of students got a 3,4,or 5 on at least one AP test. 87% of test scores were 3.4 or 5.” Maybe that helps AOs see that our classes prepare the kids well enough. Also 27% of the 700 kids got between a 33-36 on the ACT so that shows the rigor of the school too. They chose to leave that data from the class of 2020, though, because class of 2021 so messed up with testing. Still, it’s historical data that I think helps AOs figure out the school if they don’t know it.
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yeah I really wish D could have pulled off at least a 4 on AP Lang. She was rocking practice tests in class and the teacher had been using her essays as examples all year. She got a 3. We were shocked. She was just so out of sorts in the spring with everything going on. Pulled off a 5 on APUSH but we didn’t report it because didn’t want to report the 3 and thought it looked weird to just report one. I’m just hoping that her recs speak to her intellect and her grades, rigor, and placement in the class help. Plus, she’s not shooting sky high and her school has a history of kids being accepted to all of her schools with her GPA and rigor. She’s also shown a ton of interest to her high match schools, had one on one zooms with three of those AO and those meetings went well.
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So I heard most of it and it was a rehash of his book content mostly. Toward the very end I was interrupted, but before that he was talking fast about new information. This is what I heard (paraphrased):
Selective schools he’s hearing have more applications, but sounds like a good number are people overmatching and “just going for it”. More OOS submitting a test than in state applicants. More STEM majors submitting a test than others. U Chicago 70%, generally hearing at highly selective schools about one-third to two-thirds submitting a test score.
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My son had a similar thing with AP Lang. Rocked the class all year, and ended up with a 3 on the AP. He was devastated and didn’t end up sharing any AP scores (the rest were 4s and one 5) from Sophomore year and Junior year because he didn’t want to show the 3. He had his AP Lang teacher write one of his recommendations (she also taught him freshman year) but not reporting the scores is starting to worry me. Maybe if he gets deferred or rejected from his ED school, he will include on the rest of his applications.
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The ND (notre dame?) AO’s reco makes sense to me. I think the overall test scores for '21 is probably lower than previous years. Studies have shown that most kids get their highest score on their second or third try but since most '21 kids don’t have the opportunity to take more than once, I am going to assume their avg is lower. Thus, even a score lower than 50 percentile is competitive.
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Part 2 is the schools cannot rely on their historical data and models about yield this year, so for those who track demonstrated interest is going to be more important this year at selective schools. So what that looks like Jeff said is attending zoom meetings, opening email, preparing a good why this school essay (letting them know you really want to go there), getting to know you local admissions officer.
This is something we will need to step up on at my house, especially with the reach schools. Zoom is not appetizing and my son is having his toughest semester ever and feeling burned out.
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S had the same on AP Language. He got a 36 on the ACT English and always does well in Honors English so we were really surprised.
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@evergreen5 I am so curious too. ND is a reach for S and I was happy to hear they did not have the REA % increases that some of the other schools had. 
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