Here is what a college VP (Oregon State) has to say about the subject. He has a long thread on tw1tter about it. Just search for Jon Boeckenstedt over there.
Nothing he says is likely to be “news” to most of us on CC, but it’s nice to see someone in the mix speak on the subject.
This sounds fair and I like it, in theory. But, what happens when this system doesn’t produce the fair representation that many of us think is necessary for a fair society? What happens when a fair system like this still produces an under-representation of certain racial groups? Are we ok with the resulting racial makeup of the higher levels of government, businesses, academia, journalism, etc.?
You can argue that this fair system is already available – the SAT/ACT did (does?) offer a timed essay section. The problem is that top colleges are not interested in using nor helping to improve this essay section. Why aren’t they interested? Because when a system is fair and transparent, there’s no wiggle room for social engineering – no room to shape their freshman classes to reflect a racial makeup they deem fair. So they invented the ultimate opaque term – “fit” – which allows them to admit who they want to admit without having to explain it to us.
I am not blaming top colleges for trying to social engineer (I do see the need for it). I am simply pointing out that they aren’t fooling me with this nonsense of “fit”.
I think you can design reasonably fair and equitable admissions policies for the public institutions in a particular state. Policies like the top 10% rule they have in Texas that serve to make sure students from even the most disadvantaged areas have doors open to them. And if there is not enough space the the answer is to expand. We would never operate K-12 education in a way where once a school district fills up they just tell parents to take their kids someplace else. They build new schools and accommodate the growth.
But you are never going to come up with a way to provide access to elite institutions like the Ivy League for everyone. Just never going to happen. The University of Texas alone (with its branch campuses) probably educates 3x more students than the entire Ivy League.
[edit…checks math]
By my calculation there are about 61,000 undergraduates attending all 8 Ivy League schools.
By contrast there are about 167,000 undergraduates in the University of Texas system alone.
I would rather see the University of Texas system get better than hand-wring about who or who doesn’t get into the Ivy League. A lot more bang for your buck that way.
Right now every state in the country has some sort of standardized HS exams to test “college readiness” that are required by the Federal Government and built into state curriculums as part of Common Core or whatever other standardized process the state uses. For example, in Texas which doesn’t use the Common Core they are called the STAAR tests (State of Texas Assessment of Academic Readiness" and they outright say they are a measure of college readiness.
Every HS kid who attends a public school takes multiple versions of these standardized tests from about 4th grade onwards. Rather than adding in the PSAT or some other new test, just use the existing “college readiness” tests for college admission purposes. That is what the state testing agencies tell us they are measuring in the first place. And if they are lying to us and these tests don’t really test “college readiness” then upgrade and revamp them until they do.
No reason at all to have duplicate PSAT or SAT or ACT tests when those same subjects are already being tested at every public HS in the country. Just require all colleges to accept those tests for admission instead of the SAT.
The massive industrial testing complex would scream bloody murder if we did that. But I expect students and colleges would quickly adjust. Top students are going to be just fine under any scenario. The bigger issue is what is most fair to the rest.
In many states, maybe even most, the test used to satisfy federal govt requirements is the ACT or SAT. (At least theoretically, the current, Redesigned SAT supposedly measures academic skills per the Common Core standards - that was the point of the 2016 Redesign, managed by David Coleman, commonly referred to as the “architect of the Common Core.”)
I don’t think that is true, at least not of any state that I’m familiar with. No state would use an expensive exam like the SAT and require it of all students.
For example, here in WA, all HS students take the Smarter Balanced exams for ELA and math, and something called the Washington Comprehensive Assessment of Science (WCAS). They are no longer requiring students to pass all of them to graduate, but they are still given to meet Federal accountability requirements and used to assess and rate the schools themselves: State Testing | OSPI
My point is that if the states are already testing HS students on what they consider to be measures of college readiness, just use those tests and skip all the others. Every student already takes them for free and the schools already set aside testing days to administer them. Just use them for college admissions as well. And if they don’t appropriately test college readiness then fix the tests. It is a completely duplication and waste of time and resources to set aside separate school days for state-mandated ELA and math tests and then have students go take standardized SAT or ACT tests on those same exact subjects on their own.
According to prep scholar (which may or may not be up to date), 20 states plus Wash DC require the SAT (including my own state), 12 require the ACT, with 8 more offering it for free.
Marketing for state contracts appears, at least from the outside, to have been one of the driving forces behind the 2016 Redesign of the SAT.
OH uses the ACT to satisfy the graduation requirement.
California uses smarter balance too, but it’s desperately easy. The biggest problem if you were to use these existing tests is that they aren’t long tail enough to distinguish at the top end. For example there aren’t enough places at Berkeley and UCLA to admit everyone in CA with a near perfect result on smarter balance. Likewise there aren’t enough places at Harvard for everyone in the US who is a NMF.
OK, my mistake then. I guess I have never worked in any state that requires this so I didn’t know it was happening. The states where I have lived and worked (WA, TX, and OR) don’t do this.
Actually it is true. The SAT is required in our state (IL) to graduate high school. The state pays, so every kid will have taken the SAT at least once.
This is an important point. There is a huge difference between meeting graduation requirements in the middle of the bell curve and trying to split hairs among talented students on the far right of the curve. SAT is also too easy for the latter purpose and ACT too time-dependent.
I suspect a better test could be made that would be more suitable for selective college admissions. But, that is one very large can of worms.
Sure, so you fix the Smarter Balanced exam to do a better job. I don’t care what you call it, what I object to is when states require schools to set aside multiple days for standardized testing of ELA, math, and sometimes science, and then don’t use that information for any purpose that actually helps students. Some states devote nearly a whole week in the spring to standardized testing, none of which benefits students in the slightest because the students still have to go out and pay for the SAT for college admissions.
It appears that some states have switched to the SAT or ACT which is probably a big step in the right direction if they aren’t requiring any other duplicative tests. So I’m out of date with that development.
In Mississippi we do state tests only for Algebra I, English II and US History, which no way assess college readiness.
Currently looking at flights to move D21 to college (from WA to NY) in August. Red eye flights are significantly less expensive, and we live on a budget around here. However, I’ve never, not once, been able to sleep on a plane, even on a 13+ hour transpacific overnight flight. When we arrive, I’ll be driving a rental van on freeways in an unfamiliar area. If I do book a red eye, any tips for not being a sleep-deprived zombie when I get there? Or should I just deal with the much higher cost for a traditional flight time? TIA for your thoughts and advice.
I think the education should be standardized at least at the state level. In India all the schools in a state had same exact books for every subject and same exact tests at the secondary level end of the year exam. That way everyone had a minimum expected level of education. But here rural schools are way behind the city schools and there is no reasonable comparison at all. Also there are some wealthy kids who work very hard and are so disappointed in this admission game for no fault of them.
I think much higher cost is worth this time around. You have to really figure out if that is the place/college your child wants to attend. Being a zombie there is not a great idea. You need that sleep and calm thinking to see and decide the pros and cons. It is a one time thing.
Also you will anyway have some jet lag. I almost forgot about it. So you need that sleep.
She ED’d to Hamilton, so this is for her actual move-in in August.
Are you flying in to NYC or Syracuse ir Albany?