The UC system has their own method of calculating GPA and sometimes comparing a non UC GPA with a UC GPA can be misleading.
Although most CSUs just look at GPA, the UCs evaluate 13 factors in their admissions review. They are clear to state that they are looking beyond grades. Applications include four Personal Insight Questions (350 words each) and 20 Activities and Awards (350 characters each).
A recent LA Times article is behind a paywall but the article can be viewed on Yahoo.
This portion of the article might be valuable to students working on their applications.
At UC Santa Barbara, which received a record 105,640 applications, faculty told admissions officers they wanted active, engaged learners who involved themselves in their school and community. Even during the pandemic, did they seek out opportunities to learn through TED Talks? Did they volunteer for online tutoring or help family members stricken with COVID-19?
Lisa Przekop, UC Santa Barbaraâs director of admissions, said her team also looked for evidence of sustained passion. If they expressed a love of science, did they take four years of the subject rather than the required two? Did they join any related clubs or summer programs? Reviewers counted intention to do so, she said, noting that the pandemic caused the cancellation of many such activities.
âBasically, weâre looking for patterns that supported their interests,â Przekop said.
Both WashSTL and Vandyâs CDS say the 25-75% range on the ACT for accepted students is 33-35. So a 34 would be right in the range of the typical admitted student. A studentâs major and component scores might change things, but Iâd say a 34 wonât make a difference either way.
Yes, a 34 is the lowest score at the 99th percentile. But students at these schools arenât judged against the US population, they are judged against other applicants. When there are 5,000 students with a 34 or higher, a 34 is âaverageâ in the pool competing for the schoolâs admissions slots.
I think part of this is that scores likely correlate with the rest of a studentâs story. Students who figured âI donât need to submit my scores that are below the schoolâs typically admitted students, so maybe I have a shotâ and applied where they typically would not have.
Yes, this nets out to strong test scores still making a difference.
It certainly feels like splitting hairs at this point. The test optional issue is what is messing with everyone. Someone with a 34 can be seen as below someone who went test optional, even though everything else is equal. Crazy, right? They canât hold something against you that you didnât turn in and they didnât require, but they can hold something you choose to turn in against you (AP scores of 3 or 4, ACT of 33,34, etc). Iâve been listening to tons of podcasts, Instagram Live and FB live sessions with different supposedly professional college counselors. What they all have in common is that we are in crazy uncharted waters. They canât seem to agree on when to send in the scores. Some say 34 is great, send it. Most agree that for highly selective schools, 34 is borderline. Some say send. Some say nothing less than a 35. I donât know how to figure this out. We are looking at a SAT score of a 1490. How on earth is that not good enough, and yet, they are saying nothing less than a 1520+ for highly selective colleges or honors programs.
When my older daughter pulled a 34 (after the SAT timing scandal, and we had to switch to ACTs), she wanted to retest for the 36 and I told her she was done. My thought was that there was only one school on her short list that 34 wasnât in the middle 50. With this kid, I donât have any idea which way is up. We donât have a guidance counselor who can help, so we are on our own (hence, podcasts and more podcasts).
That 34 as a junior, taken once (without test prep) is more meaningful to me than a super score of 35, taken 4 times just to achieve a perfect score. It says more about the innate ability of the student. But that is just my $0.02
Right I understand⊠hell my 35ACT 4.0UW 10 AP, varsity sport, minority tutor etc etc D18 got WL at Vandy and rejected at UNC, UVA and a couple of Ivys. I get it that lots of applicants to top school have good scoresâŠHowever, I just think idea that because schools are test optional that submitting a 34 would âhurtâ an application to Vandy and WashU seems like crazy talk.
Will it alone get the student in no of course notâŠbut I just canât see how going TO with a 34 makes sense.
My 2 centsâŠSubmit the 34. My son had a 1520 which is pretty much equal to a 34. He did really well this college cycle. What I think really helped him were his essays. I would focus on other parts of the application and write some amazing essays and submit that 34.
If a student is applying to a school where a 1490 is barely in the low range for the middle-50, it makes perfect sense to me that submitting the score can only hurt an applicantâs chances for admittance. If the university uses submitted scores as an admission gauge and a student submits a score, it will not help at all.
Yet, if the school is test optional and the applicant knows his score is not impressive relative to the previous class, it makes sense to not submit that score. A 1490 is a great score, but all things are relative to each situation. On an application to Northwestern or Vanderbilt, the 1490 is a meh factor, or possibly even a negative factor. On an application to Boston College, that 1490 is a wow factor.
it is up to each family to educate themselves and know when and when not to submit a score.
While I think knowing when to submit scores is important, I also think overthinking it is dangerous. Every year kids with slightly lower test scores and gpaâs are admitted over kids with higher ones - especially when the differences are negligible (like a 34 v 35 ACT). This stats based thinking is why every year there are lots of kids with near perfect SATs/GPAâs etc who are shocked when they get a truckload of rejections from elite schools! If your kid has a very strong standardized test score (which, IMO, a 34 is) of course you should submit it. Putting hours of study into getting a 35 (which isnât actually going to really increase your chances) seems like a waste when that time could be spent crafting a compelling story in your application. That is just my .02.
Definitely a weird year. My S22 got a 1400 on the March SAT and plans to take it again in August, not stressing but just to see if he does better. The 1400 wouldnât help him at NYU but might at Pratt, at least with getting better merit. (My D19âs 1490 was way more than needed at Parsons but may have contributed to the top-of-the-line merit she received.)
S22 has expressed some interest in Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, which a good friend of his whoâs also interested in architecture mentioned to him. Iâve mentioned it a few times in recounting top-10 lists of architecture programs, but of course I donât count. Not sure itâll end up being a fit. S22 and his friend are both Black, and while S22 is perfectly comfortable in a mostly White milieu and has no interest in HBCUs, Cal Poly SLO is only 1% Black and has had some racial incidents. One of them was bad enough that the university suspended the entire Greek system indefinitely in 2018.
In other news, S22 and his friend have decided to start an architecture club, which their school has lacked. Iâm excited to see him getting more actively interested in the subject. Tomorrow weâre going on a guided tour of their schoolâs big expansion project, which is due to be completed by the fall; we won it in a silent auction. Should be cool â theyâre adding a new science wing to the main building, and a separate ninth-grade building that looks pretty palatial. DW and I are going with S22 and bringing his buddy along.
I have to laugh. Donât you love that your thoughts donât count and a friendâs does. We have that too. The college I went to was just that - momâs old college. Now that S22 has friends attending there, itâs suddenly a place worth considering!
S22 and I havenât talked about colleges in a while. I had been trying to limit it to once a week or so and even then he looked overwhelmed, so I took a break for a couple weeks. But I do want to talk about using our time in June, before camps, to visit a couple places if they open.
The test score sending is such an interesting and frustrating discussion. The whole process is tough enough without worrying that a 34 is too low. How crazy is that!
When you opt out of sending test scores, what does the school assume? I mean, youâre hoping the school assumes your scores are better than they are or youâd send them right? Or does the school make no assumption and just has one less data point?
S22 scores are better than his grades. He goes to a pretty rigorous school (at least the honors/AP classes) that seems to be taking a personal stand against grade inflation even during these crazy covid times, when I was like - come on, a little inflation wouldnât hurt⊠But no. No inflation for us! So weâre grateful for the SATs which have been a feat in itself to even take with all the cancellations. And since heâs applying to colleges far far out of state who have very little to no first-hand knowledge of his high school, weâre grateful that the TO schools arenât going Test Blind.
This is so difficult to really analyze. At the top schools everyone applying has top test scores and grades and as most AO tell you the students are not rejected but rather selected based on trying to come up with the most diverse class. So if they are choosing between a bunch of 34/35 ACT scores and all of them with 4.0 of higher, they are looking at making the most diverse class. Do they need another fine arts major, orchestra member, science fair competitor, someone from Montana etcâŠthat is where those decision are made.
It all a crap shoot. If your look on 2021 parents thread you will see kids that got rejected or waitlisted to Cal Poly SLO and accepted to MIT. There is a certain amount of randomness in the whole process.
As someone who had gone through two different cycles with high stat kids (35ACT/4.0UW and 10 AP classes etc.) my advise is to apply broadly because as stated above you child may not be a diverse spot for one top school but may for another. Also if you are looking for merit money look at public universities many are looking to get high stat kids and will give lots of money. Understand and make sure your child understands that the numbers on naviance, niche and another acceptance predictors are not a real life predictions. All the top schools are a total lottery pick no matter how impressive your numbers, recommendations and ECs are.
My son last year had a 34 ACT (one sitting) 4.6 W GPA, 4.0 UW, hard APs with scores of 5 and 4, 800 on US History SAT 2, good ECs and was rejected by Columbia, Northwestern and Georgetown. We are from NJ which has many high stats kids and he had no hooks. But allâs well that ends well. He just finished freshman year at Northeastern, where he got nice merit aid, and had a great in-person experience, whereas I think those 3 colleges did not even allow freshmen in dorms or classrooms. NU did a great job with frequent COVID-19 testing and my son did not know anyone who got COVID. His first year GPA was 3.96.
My D22 just took the ACT and did not do well. May go TO for her. My challenge is convincing her to apply to more safety schools. I suggested Elon and my husband is suggesting James Madison.
@songbirdmama Having just gone through this admission cycle with S21, if you pal. On submitting test scores, I recommend taking some time to study to see if a 35-36 is achievable. My son took the ACT cold turkey, never opened a practice test and got a 32. He studied about 5 hours each week summer of his sophomore year and got a 36 second try. With test optional and schools having to hit their average with a yielded base with TOâs, 33 would be borderline.
Dâs school had a panel discussion last night with Admissions Deans from Cornell, Tufts, Wellesley, and CalTech (which was test blind so this doesnât apply to Cal Tech). They all had similar results with application increases of 35% over years prior. They indicated that more applications were TO than not, and 40-45% of their admits were TO.
Not sure itâll end up being a fit. S22 and his friend are both Black, and while S22 is perfectly comfortable in a mostly White milieu and has no interest in HBCUs, Cal Poly SLO is only 1% Black and has had some racial incidents. One of them was bad enough that the university suspended the entire Greek system indefinitely in 2018.