There is a genuine difference in peer quality in areas of your particular interest amongst different schools. If you see it, you’ll know it. Student preparation coming in is not the same amongst the different schools. There are no random 200 kids in some random school of size 2000 that would adequately replace the 10-15 kids he regularly hangs out with.
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I can’t remember where I first learned about comparing college rejections to the stress of wind on trees (this site? a book? a podcast?), but before college decisions start rolling in, I remind my boys of this experiment, so that they understand that disappointment and rejection is going to suck now, but they need to experience it in order to build a strong foundation for the long run.
“The Biosphere 2 project was created as a research tool for scientists to study Earth’s living systems, and it allowed scientists to play with farming and innovation in a way that didn’t harm the planet. One of the most profound discoveries made by the scientists had nothing to do with a cure for some new disease or a new way of farming land. Rather, the discovery had to do with the wind’s role in a tree’s life. The trees inside Biosphere 2 grew rapidly, more rapidly than they did outside of the dome, but they also fell over before reaching maturation. After looking at the root systems and outer layers of bark, the scientists came to realize that a lack of wind in Biosphere 2 caused a deficiency of stress wood. Stress wood helps a tree position itself for optimal sun absorption and it also helps trees grow more solidly. Without stress wood, a tree can grow quickly, but it cannot support itself fully. It cannot withstand normal wear and tear, and survive. In other words, the trees needed some stress in order to thrive in the long run.” (Thanks to the Marin Academy website for the succinct retelling of this experiment.)
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We had the opposite experience when putting together school list for my second one. I think some of the prestigious institutions haven’t developed programs that are more career focused, perhaps because they rely less on tuition revenue to operate, so they are more insulated from student demand and they are able to attract students based on prestige. There are a couple examples of this in Jeff Selingo’s book ‘There is Life After College’.
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An analogy may be useful under certain circumstances, but if it is taken too far, there might be a problem. Most people would be happy with any vacation, but most students wouldn’t be happy with any college.
This is EXACTLY what happened to my niece. She is 2023 and was stuck in the train of thought “I want to be surrounded by scholars, not some big party school where no-one takes school seriously”. In her mind that equated to low acceptance rates (based on USNWR rankings, etc.). I tried to have gentle discussions with her about considering honors colleges within larger universities, etc. Fast forward to now and she has only been admitted to three of her schools and is not excited about any of them. She threw them on her list as safeties when her college counselor wisely told her she was worried she would not get in to her top choices. She has a fabulous admit offering her a LOT of money and she feels like it is beneath her. Still saying the students there are not as serious as she is. There are 10,000 kids at this school- there have to be some academics there. She won’t budge. I am staying out of it and watching to see how this all plays out.
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Not always true. D22 chose her safety over 4 reaches because she truly thought it was the best choice for her.
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This is the real key here. And once they are in, the peer pressure elevates even the average performers and drives them. Of course, its another thing whether such an environment contributes to stress levels, and if its worth the pain. I am seeing it in my S23’s classes. The top 20% of the class seems to be in another league compared to the median CS student.
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My son visited the school you mention a few weeks ago as a tour of a club that he is a part of, and met the corresponding club at your school. He said it was a pleasure hanging out with those kids. They were all at the same wavelength, and really bright! They were like “transformers are so cool” :-).
One doesn’t necessarily know what a school will cost until acceptance and financial package. I think it’s fair that some of our kids chose to go for it at a few schools with the full understanding that it might not happen.
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Meanwhile I am over here thinking that my kid is not awesome but instead perfectly average and we applied to schools with that in mind. I guess his 3.3-3.4 gpa did that for us but honestly, I know we would not have played into the hype and rankings even if it was higher. Most of the high achieving kids in my kids district go to regional publics. A couple go to low acceptance rates schools but its just not expected.
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I just do not buy into the mindset that all the smart kids sort themselves into elite-intellect schools and there are none left in the mediocre schools (to use a term of art that recently got a thread banned).
I mean, please y’all, you should hear yourselves sometimes.
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My DD decided on a college. For those colleges she had an AO who had communicated with her, she sent them an email letting them know her decision and thanking them for reviewing her application. She also looked on all her portals and declined acceptances if there was a button. There was 1 she had to send an email to instead. For all the emails she sent to her AO they responded to her and at least 1/2 of those indicated in their email if she changed her mind they would still “be happy to have her join their class” but I’m not sure if that would still be available after May 1st. It’s hard to finally have to chose a single college to attend!
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Btw my ‘academic’ kids are always complaining there’s too much work and they need a break.
Some kids seem to dread what they are clamoring for :).
Once they get there that is …
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That’s good. You want them to complain about work. Otherwise it would not be normal !!
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Agree…our valedictorian this year is going to our state college…he is brilliant.
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That’s why I prefer the concept of likelies. Why consider any school a last choice? Why not have choices?
I tried to steer my kid away from having a last pick. Take a good look at them all. Talk to current students, meet or research professors, read curricula, what have you. We asked him to apply to some that they might really like, keeping an open mind. (Unless the student has some true distaste or hatred for a school. Then yeah, why apply to that one?)
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Seriously. Because students believing an Ivy is full of elite-intellect students are going to be unpleasantly surprised by how much of the student body is there not because of natural talent, but because of parental wealth and connections, extensive planning for college from a young age, aggressive counseling and essay prep, and legacy and athletic status.
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The number 1 determinant of which school one can attend, is finances.
There are many super smart, academically inclined kids who could easily fit in at a school perceived to be “academically elite” but can’t, because of the cost. I have met several such, through my 2 decades of hiring experience.
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I agree with this. There are intelligent students at many colleges. Not all brilliant students even apply to T20 schools. I always bristle at the idea that if a smart kid doesn’t attend an Ivy League school they will be without peers. Perhaps there is a small percentage of kids at those schools who wouldn’t thrive elsewhere (true academic outliers - and these kids don’t make up the majority of Ivy League kids, IMO) but, by and large, my feeling is most smart kids will thrive where they are planted. Two of the most brilliant kids from S22’s HS class ended up at our state flagship and they aren’t the only 2 smart kids there. Are their lives going to be blighted because they got shut out of the Ivies last year (one chose the flagship over Tufts - feeling UMass CS was equivalent at a fraction of the price)? No, of course not.
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↑↑This!
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