I don’t think the original analogy was saying people would be happy with any vacation (I mean, I hate tent camping with a vehement passion, I would be miserable if that were my vacation), but rather that there is a very wide range of vacations that any given person would be happy with.
6 Likes
I’m not saying my kid can’t find his peers at any school, but so far that hasn’t been his experience. He currently goes to a small private school. He has not found his people. Everyone wants to be his lab partner, but no one shares his interests. We have many high achievers at our school, but he’s the only science kid. He went away to a science camp last summer and had so much fun geeking out with other kids who love science. He hopes to find those people in college.
3 Likes
If my kid was all upset that he/she didn’t get into where they thought they deserved I would first ask them to look in the mirror and ask yourself did you do everything possible to achieve your goal. Only they can really answer that as they have to believe it themselves. And if they thought so then I would say well go some place else be great and then go to that school for graduate school. Having that level of motivation can mean people do amazing things. It is like when people made Michael Jordan mad. He was going to kill them the next time they played or for the remainder of the game.
There some amazing kids on every campus. I always say you can find your people on almost any campus.
What school one attended doesn’t define who they are by any means. If one is destined for greatness it won’t be because of the school they attended.
4 Likes
My son went to a small private high school. He had friends but not really a group he completely jived with - think nerdy introvert who loves sports! He is at a university of about 6k and it’s a totally different experience. The whole dynamics of college is just different. I’m forever grateful for a great first roommate, but in college, I think if they follow their interests they will find their people.
12 Likes
Yes! Middle class gets left behind for sure! And no real concern to shift, perhaps because they some how figure out how to beg, borrow, steal/qualify for loans.
So who ends up going to the $80k/yr schools? Wealthy or poor. Not a middle class income option.
My definition of middle class, not enough income to afford and too much to get aid…in the middle.
Not “or”, Merit hunting = public
No merit at highly selective schools (need based only).
4 Likes
My daughter is still waiting on Dartmouth and Brown, but even if she gets in, I think she’s choosing her safety. She has fallen in love with it!
16 Likes
^^^^THIS. My kids have numerous friends at all sorts of schools, and some of those attending Ivies are surprised to find out when they get there that many of the kids they encounter are not as intellectually curious or academically inclined as they had hoped and as they had experienced in their high schools. And many we know are there due to legacy status, recruited athletes, or other VIP family credentials (read: very very large donors).
7 Likes
Ouch! The whole idea of “peer quality” and being “less than” based on college choice is insulting to say the least. The I’m better than you because I go to school at XYZ with an acceptance rate of less than 10% attitude and that there’s no way intellectuals or people involved in science can end up at a large state school, or a lesser-known private is ridiculous. I’m pretty sure my mediocre student will do just fine, (with 14/14 acceptances from 20-80% rates mind you) and find many friends that can walk and chew gum at the same time and even may end up being world leaders, doctors, English teachers, social workers or cure cancer! This idea that only the extra smart kids can or should go to school with other extra-smart kids to have any kind of challenging or fulfilling educational experience is just wrong. Maybe broaden your horizons and slum it a little bit with the 3.92 or 3.25 GPA kids, they might teach you something!
16 Likes
This is very interesting and useful information. More so if you would be willing to state the schools your son applied to and was accepted/etc. to and whether or not he got any aid.
Thank you!
I agree that a safety is only a last pick if that is how you have chosen it to be or arranged the situation. We all have control over where we apply. There’s no reason a safety HAS to be a last pick.
6 Likes
Reading through all of this from the perspective of the Class of 21 and thinking of my own S’s experience. He also applied to all reaches with maybe 2 that were matches. None that were safeties.
Throughout that process we talked openly about what the words possible, probable and likely meant and the difference between them–what to count on and what not to. We made sure he had a plan A (based on the schools he applied to), a plan B (based on adding a few schools that weren’t top of his preference pile if the early returns weren’t positive) and a plan C (what if none of this happens, what does next year look like for you?) and we ALWAYS reinforced that any of those three plans was a next step we would be excited about for him because it would be new and he’d be learning. That there are lots of paths forward. What mattered was HOW he took the next step, less which particular step he took.
His GPA was a 2.7 when he applied.
These types of conversations aren’t just about the high stats high school kids. They should be for everyone. I’m just not sure how many of the high stats kid families are having these conversations.
One of the benefits my S had was that these discussions weren’t the first time in his life we were talking about keeping options open (in areas way beyond academics) and so he wasn’t shocked–he’d been building that resilience muscle for a long time.
14 Likes
Well hopefully when you do more research you’ll be able to find plenty of schools that can offer everything he needs. I’m pretty sure there are numerous large state schools with higher acceptance rates they have all that he needs at the undergraduate level. Off the top of my head I’d say that Pitt might satisfy his needs. I believe they have Industrial Engineering and they also offer a Bachelor of Philosophy in which a student can create an unique research/thesis to go with any major which sounds like something that could interest your son. Also many large state schools have something that might be called Interdisciplinary Studies or similar to sort of create your own major.
3 Likes
We have checked a lot of them out, and many of them that have programs that he is interested in (including Pitt) came in too expensive for us. But, yes, we are continuing to look.
Accepting your kids choice is not always easy. He will likely pick the location over the better schools.
1 Like
Those kids may also find a certain discomfort when they are no longer the top 10% of the class and don’t have the label of being the “smart” kids. Even with legacy and athletes, the pond gets a whole lot bigger.
7 Likes
WOW! This board got BUSY today!
D23 got her final decision back today - ANOTHER waitlist! She really though Bryn Mawr would be an acceptance!
3.99 UW
1530 SAT
Good (but “normal” EC’s), good LOR, etc…
Just brutal.
We’re still waiting on the final $$ options from a couple of schools then she’ll need to decide where to commit (we had a significant change in income from 2021 to 2022 - 2021 was exceptional but likely not going to be repeated for a few years, so working to get a more realistic #).
10 apps:
rejected: UChicago, MIT, CalTech (those are extreme reaches for everyone, obviously)
Accepted:
Sarah Lawrence - 25-26K based on last year’s prices
Grinnell - about 23K/year COA between merid/need-based
Mt Holyoke - 20K/year merit, waiting on need-based
Stevens - pending updated financials - already offered 32K/year merit but if that’s all there is it would be well over 40K/year COA, not doable
Waitlisted:
Case Western
Wesleyan
Bryn Mawr
I would love for her to do Grinnell - they already got #'s for us based on updated financials, COA is about 23K. Definitely her hardest admit - probably behind Sarah Lawrence, tied with Mt Holyoke.
Stevens she loved when we visited - but the admissions officer hasn’t been very helpful, and gave a couple of flippant answers to some questions about programs, so she was ready to take the off the list already; but of her 4 acceptances, they have the strongest physics program, so she’s left them on the list.
Sarah Lawrence still hasn’t published 2023-2024 rates - so while the merit + need-based (with updated financials) seems generous, COA would be about 25 to 26K based on LAST year’s #'s. But that could end up over 30K - projected over 4 years, that starts to really add up!
Her only real complaint about Grinnell is location - she loved the vibe of the campus, their programming, the 3/2 program with CalTech, all of it - if we could just transplant it to a suburb outside New York or Boston it would be her #1, no questions asked
It likely comes down to Sarah Lawrence vs Mt Holyoke; if $$ is the same, I suspect it’ll be Sarah Lawrence. I don’t see Stevens getting the need-based $$ close enough, just based on our interactions with the FA office so far.
With the whole conversation around “loving your safety school”, I figured I would mention that Sarah Lawrence was just that. But when she got in EA (her only EA acceptance, her other safeties (Stevens and Mt Holyoke) only had ED options), we decided to love the school that loved her, and went to the admitted student day in February, and she fell in love with it. At that point it was no longer a fallback, but if the $$ was right might have still been picked as her top choice under the real reaches, even if she hadn’t got waitlisted at these others. She just expected to have the others as OPTIONS…
For anyone not loving their safeties, I highly recommend the admitted student days - the schools make the kids feel special, and wanted.
19 Likes
Excuse me - are you saying that the creme de la creme can’t go to Tufts or Colgate unless they are super wealthy (in most cases)?
Oh yeah - that is what you’re saying and rightfully so.
2 Likes
I totally get why these comments are made because usually about 50% of students at these schools are full pay; however, I think it’s important that we keep the conversation nuanced. Some of these top schools that meet full need are actually the best deal for the “middle class” (as well as poor) for private colleges–much more so then the next group of schools down that tend to only meet 80% of people’s need.
To be specific–my family’s household income is in the 64th income percentile (100K). I just looked it up. My S23 got into Hamilton, Trinity, and Conn College among full-need schools, and was waitlisted at a few other similar colleges (& still has a decision to come). The total cost of attendance we are being offered ranges from $15k-$36K per year. On the other hand, he considered applying to Villanova, but their financial aid policies just didn’t seem like it would be feasible for us.
10 Likes
In fairness, I chose two schools that are “much worse” - but yes, you could be right.
But the #s aren’t pretty.
I just think when the comment was made - you have to be able to afford - I think many kids go right to what they know is affordable - and that’s fair.
Why get excited about a Ferrari if you can only afford a Chevy?
Again, most kids aren’t engaged like those on this chat…
And I do think, many of the kids that are able to secure admission and funding at a school like Tufts will meet the institutional need.
That might mean a white female from rural Kentucky, but likely not a white female from Beverly Hills - unless she’s got the $$.
Plan A, B, C is a good way to put it. The definition of A B C could be name of school or other post-secondary option. It’s different for all depending on situation. Since we all come from different perspectives and experiences, we are all going to define it differently. Doesn’t make one family’s definition/strategy better or worse, just different. There is no one size fits all. There is diversity here just like at college and IMO respecting that diversity is important.
Since we all have different plans/strategies I think we should understand for those who defined Plan A = Reach, Plan B = Target, Plan C = Safety, that they are more excited about Plan A than Plan C. Aren’t you when you have a plan, a back up plan and a back up to the back up plan? How/why else would you prioritize multiple plans/paths in the first place? So I think it would be natural for a student/parent to be initially disappointed if Plan A and/or B does not come to fruition and they end up with their third Plan C. Not that they should wallow in it, but initially feel disappointed. Doesn’t mean you can’t or won’t get over it and then be excited about Plan C but I think it’s okay to just feel what you’re feeling for a moment without being dismissed of that disappointment. Then at some point (hopefully sooner than later) get busy finding something to get excited about for Plan C.
Before we started the process, I had my son prioritize all options (we had plan A-H, I know a bit overkill but include possibilities from ivy to community college) and then from there crafted a list knowing that he may not get his top priorities. We did what we could to get number one, two, three… but like anything in life, there is no guarantee. I also understand that not every parent/student has access or is aware of all the information they need to develop a fail proof strategy. I was about mid point in that knowledge and found this site a little late but in the end it worked out. However that’s not because I was some sort of genius, but rather due to luck/ good fortune/God’s Grace (however you want to look at it). I realize others are not so lucky and my heart goes out to them. I wish everyone had the knowledge and access for success in this game of college.
5 Likes