Parents of the HS Class of 2024

Parents Forum Class of 20xx Community
2443

Thank you! That is so helpful! Honestly, I just heard of “pre-reads!” I didn’t even know that was something you could do. Wow! Want to make some money doing college counseling? LOL! I have been thinking of hiring one, but my kid is at a private school now where they are supposed to help with that. So, maybe I am being doom and gloom, and we will get some good suggestions. We’re in a state with two top 50 public schools, so a lot of the top students apply to those two schools–partially because they are equal to or better than some of the privates. For example, one is extremely close to Tufts in the rankings (which my kid really liked on a visit), but has a much higher admit for in state students and is MUCH cheaper. But it’s not in a great location. I know it is all about compromises.

It’s also weird that so many schools I look up get listed as reaches when they don’t SEEM like they should be reaches based on my kid’s SAT scores and current GPA. Unless they are all just reaches because so many people apply. It’s actually much harder to find SAFETIES!

I think we really don’t know our budget because with one kid, we really could afford a school if she fell in love with it. But she really has no idea. And it just seems ridiculous. We do have a prepaid plan for our state, which I think should knock off around 11,000 a year at any school? It might be a little more or less. And then we have additional money in a 529, but I would like to save some for grad school–although I suppose we could add more.

Thank you for your help and a sanity check! :slight_smile:

2444

Thanks! I looked at Sarah Lawrence when I was going to college! But I was a humanities person…as someone who caught my very basic math error probably realizes. LOL!!! I don’t know how SL is for STEM. But I know the school, and I think culturally it would be a good fit.

There are some southern states that we might consider…like NC or GA…but probably not Texas or Florida right now…but the one thing my kid has said she wants is cold. So, those are probably ruled out anyway.

1 Like
2445

Can you tell I was an English major. Didn’t do my basic math correctly. LOL.

2446

I do feel like things have drastically changed in a very short amount of time. Admissions were already getting more competitive, throw in Covid, test optional, etc. and for our 2024 kids it will likely be the toughest year yet. Even in the last year I feel like a few schools on his list are now reaches for him because their acceptances have decreased and with test optional only top kids are submitting scores so he is no longer >50% for stats for a couple of the schools. This is hard and overwhelming at times.

1 Like
2447

Has she considered Mt. Holyoke?

1 Like
2448

This is frustrating but I’ve got some resources for you!

You can find out how much merit aid a school awards, as well as how much merit aid is awarded to non-need students by looking at a school’s Common Data Set in section H2A, which reports the number of students at their school receiving non-need based aid, as well as the average amount of non-need aid.

Thus if you’e chasing merit, you can get a ballpark idea of whether or not a college is a good candidate for your family by looking up these stats. In general, you’ll want the percentage of students awarded aid that is non-need to be on the higher side, and you’d want to see higher “average” amounts for non-need aid as well.

For example, if comparing College A and College B, you see that College A awards non-need aid to 5% of students, with an average amount of $5,000. College B awards non-need aid to 55% of students, with an average non-need amount of $28,000.

If you’re chasing merit, College A is going to be a waste of your time.

It also is important to evaluate where your student stands compared to that college’s student body; let’s say your student is a great student with great ACT/SAT scores and you’re comparing two colleges that both give high merit awards to non-need students. But drilling down you see that your student’s scores and GPA are on the high end for College X, but are average for College Y. College X is going to be likely to give you the higher amount of merit that you see on their CDS, because your student is one they would like to attract. College Y is not going to award you merit because your student is “average” to them.

(Important: This is not about your student’s worth as a person; it’s really important that their self worth is not tied to their GPA, test scores, where they’re applying to college, and where they’re admitted. This is about making a smart business transaction, and navigating a system.)

To summarize:

  1. If chasing merit, first look for colleges that award non-need aid to a higher percentage of students, and award higher non-need average amounts.

  2. Next, apply to those schools in which your student will be on the upper end of that college’s admitted students.

So, here are two ways to find this merit information for each college:

Internet search:

  1. Search: “Name of College” “Common Data Set”
  2. Open the CDS for the last 1-3 years, click “Find” and type “H2A”
  3. In the H2A section, look at their stats for the number of kids awarded non-need aid, and the average non-need award. They’ll report it as the number of 1st year students, and the number of undergrads receiving non-need aid. You can look at the class size and undergrad size to determine the underlying percentage.

Jennie and Jeff Levy’s annual spreadsheet of financial aid awards has all of this plugged into a spreadsheet and is a great first pass for finding this information. I do encourage people to double check the school’s own CDS reports once you’ve identified the ones you’re interested in pursuing to ensure that the numbers are accurate.

16 Likes
2449

I would definitely create a post with your child’s stats, interests and desire for merit as a help and you will get a lot of places to look. There are people who don’t look at this thread who are extremely knowledgeable about merit aid and will have many many schools you never would have thought of.

1 Like
2450

Wow! Thank you. I knew this information existed, but I was not exactly sure how to find it. Thank you so much!

2451

Thank you! I think I will do that, but probably not until toward the end of the year. She had good SAT scores, but I am hoping that her math will come up a little. We shall see!!!

2 Likes
2452

I could have typed your post last year. Reed was my D22’s top choice, but the price was just not justifiable for our family. Aside from two in-state schools, all of her other applications and acceptances ended up exceeding our comfort zone with regard to cost. She was our first child to go to college and I didn’t find CC until after she finished all her applications. We were hoping for more merit aid since we’re full pay, but we didn’t know how to find out what the aid would be without applying (other than schools that post the auto-merit numbers). We have two more children to send to college, so costs matter a lot.

2 Likes
2453

Happy to help!

As a general rule the more highly rejective a college is (aka highly selective), the less likely they will be to award any merit aid; e.g. highly rejective SLACs such as Reed and Carlton don’t offer merit, but they do offer fantastic need based aid.

My advice for all families as they start this process— no matter their financial situation—is to look for colleges that are in the center of the sweet spot between:

  • financial fit*
  • social/academic/experiential fit
  • likelihood of acceptance fit**

Each of those elements should be considered when evaluating a school as a potential applicant; “rankings” do not matter at the end of the day. Find those schools that hit all of the above metrics as they are the best schools for your student to apply to, and where they can receive a great education.

Notes:
*“Financial fit” is personal to your family, and includes consideration of both need and non-need aid as well as necessary additional expenses such as travel.

**“Likelihood of acceptance fit” is for your student, this isn’t the college’s admittance rate, however that’s something you will be considering when you’re weighing the likelihood of your student being admitted there.

6 Likes
2454

All is not lost. You’re learning this NOW, not after your kid’s applications are all in. You’re learning this NOW, not after you’ve received all of the financial aid packages, only THEN to learn that none of the places they applied to are affordable for your family.

You’re over a year ahead of the game compared to other people who won’t realize this until it’s almost too late.

You (and by ‘you,’ I mean you, spouse/partner/kid’s other parent, & kid) need to figure out:

  • what the target max $$ amount is per year that you’re willing to spend
  • what sort of major(s) is kid interested in right now
  • are there any particularly unique majors/programs that he/she is interested in? Because that will narrow down your list.
  • take a serious look at your in state options. Go on the campus tours preferably when the academic year is in session, eat a meal somewhere on campus, talk to their admissions people, etc. Figure out what auto-merit aid at the in-state options your kiddo might qualify for.
  • how much ‘prestige’ you’re willing to pay for
  • for any auto-merit scholarships at colleges, what are the annual scholarship renewal requirements. For example, if it requires student to have a cumulative 3.5 GPA by the end of each year and he/she is an engineering major, then that merit scholarship at the OOS school might be hard to maintain. Therefore, if he/she lost the merit scholarship because of lower grades, would you still be able to afford to send kiddo there?
  • how far away (or not) is your child interested in traveling to for college?
  • does he/she have any ideas yet on big school, small school, somewhere in between? Urban school, suburban, rural?
2 Likes
2455

FYI about financial pre-reads - College of Wooster in Ohio will do a financial pre-read before the student submits his/her application if you ask.

3 Likes
2456

If your state has a pre-paid plan sort of like Florida does, that’s not the same as a 529 account/plan. Also, if you’ve paid into a state-run pre-paid plan in a state like FL, one should not necessarily assume that you’ll be able to take that money to any other college nationwide and use that $11,000/year towards tuition at that school. The devil’s in the details…look up the specifics of the pre-paid plan in your state. $$ in a 529 plan can be used basically at any college/university.

However, I’m not a resident of FL, so I could be wrong on some of those details but that’s my general understanding from an outsider’s point of view.

2457

Thank you all so much! Our prepaid plan allows us to take the average amount of in state tuition and apply it to out of state schools. So, it’s not AS valuable as if we used it in-state, but it’s still helpful. My dad actually set it up for our kid. And then we have a 529 plan.

1 Like
2458

Those are all really excellent questions that I don’t have answers for because my kid doesn’t seem to know. :joy:

We assumed she would do CS, but then she decided she didn’t really like CS after two years of taking CS classes in high school (even though she’s good at it and her father has his whole career in it). And she decided she really wanted to study physics. However, while she’s good in pretty much all STEM, she’s NOT a really strong math student. Like she’s good at math, but it’s actually not her strongest subject. And she seemed to have no idea what she might do with a physics degree. She just thinks theoretical physics is interesting. But engineering is “boring.” So, the practical aspects of physics are “boring.” She likes chemistry too. But not biology.

She has really high verbal SAT scores and is a strong writer, but she doesn’t really like English classes or care about history or politics–although she gets good grades in them.

Meanwhile, she spends most of her free time doing digital illustration and self teaching herself Japanese.

She says she’s willing to go far away, but I don’t know that she REALLY understands what it will mean if she goes across the country, as opposed to staying somewhere a little more accessible to home. We WOULD pay for prestige, but I don’t think she’s getting into Brown.

I know she doesn’t want Greek life, and she says she wants to be close to a city, but she seems to actually prefer schools that are a little more suburban. She says not a tiny school, but maybe a medium sized one or big one. But not NYC. Too much.

Currently 4.75 GPA, 99% percentile verbal SAT, 90% math (would like to get math up 100 points if possible) 5 APs so far. (Probably 4 or 5 more next year.) Almost everything else honors. 1 dual enrollment. Not super impressive extracurriculars because she’s an introvert, but some things that look good. I don’t think that being transgender matters much in terms of diversity.

Schools on my list right now…

George Washington (Great location. Not sure about merit.)
American (Great location. Gives decent merit aid)
William and Mary (in state–great school–bad location)
Goucher (gives merit aid)
UVA (everyone wants to go here. If you don’t ED, just forget about it)
Swarthmore (high reach no merit)
Haverford (high reach no merit
Bryn Mawr (gives some merit aid–can take classes at Swarthmore and Haverford and do 3/2 engineering programs with Columbia and Caltech)
University of Pittsburgh (seems like everyone I know applies here because of rolling admissions)
Dickinson College (under the radar for me)
Carnegie Mellon (high reach–but good mix of tech and art)
Lehigh
Sarah Lawrence (maybe not enough STEM)
Cooper Union (Interesting school but only if you’re into engineering, art, or architecture?)
Rochester Institute of Technology (has some interesting majors combining art and stem, gives merit aid, difficult for us to get to)
Ithaca (I know a few kids who’ve gone here recently)
Bard (I almost went here. Kind of in the middle of nowhere. But quirky culture.)
Vassar
Brandeis (liked this school, gives a little merit aid, close to Boston)
University of Vermont (For some reason, I know several trans kids who’ve gone here recently)
University of Massachusetts Amherst
Mount Holyoke (Super liberal women’s college, went here myself for a camp a long time ago, kind of in the middle of nowhere)
Oberlin (quirky, gives merit aid, kind of hard for us to get to)
Brown (I mean…okay…dream school)
Wesleyan (Everyone seems to like this school. LOL. No merit aid.)
University of Chicago (Another dream school)
Macalaster (Minneapolis is a cool city. Quirky vibe? I think they give some merit)
UNC Asheville (Not that expensive. Asheville is a great city.)
Harvey Mudd (Hard to get into. Tiny. But really great education.)
Lewis and Clark (Portland. Gives some merit aid?)
Pitzer
Scripps
Colorado School of Mines
Rice (Great tech school. But in Texas. Also really hard to get into.)
VCU-(local school, not as highly ranked, but great art program, could easily double major)

I have not really investigated a lot of out of state publics, because we have a few really good in state publics. And, honestly, I don’t know where to start. Are these all reaches? I don’t even know what’s a reach anymore!!!

2459

My not-expert opinion:
A lot of the schools on your list are reaches.

What’s the max amount per year you’re hoping to spend? For example, if it’s $11,000/yr for tuition + room & board (which would range from ~$11,000 on the low end up to even $15,000 or more on the high end), then based on whatever your household income is per year, it’s possible that MOST of the schools on this list are financial reaches.

You need to go to the Net Price Calculator of each school you’re considering and plug in your #s to see what approximately you should expect to pay per year.

If your kid is “meh” about engineering and doesn’t want to major in architecture AND isn’t into living in NYC, then you need to skip Cooper Union entirely.

Other random thoughts:

  • Rochester Institute of Technology - if difficult for you to get to, then you should rule this one out. Also rule out any other school on the list which is similarly “difficult to get to.”
  • Harvey Mudd is as hard to get into as Caltech is. And it’s as hard as Caltech. Financial reach for most people as well. You need to REALLY love stem in order to do well here, like be willing to eat, breath, and live it all the time. Be super excellent at math and yet also expect to barely pass your math classes freshman year.
  • Pitzer & Scripps are as expensive as Harvey Mudd. So is Rice.
  • if your kid is thinking she’d like to have time to pursue art interests, then going to a purely tech school might not be a good fit.
  • Bryn Mawr - if kid isn’t into engineering, then it doesn’t matter if they offer a 3/2 engineering program w/Columbia or Caltech. Also, for any college that says they have a 3/2 program with another school…this will mean that after 3 yr at school #1, your kid will then be transferring and living at a totally different school for the last 2 yr…and, thus, creating whole new set of friends and all that goes with that.
  • don’t put a school on the list just because everybody else is doing it.
  • Univ of PIttsburgh - as a non-PA resident, OOS tuition is $36,000/yr. Room & board = $12,268. Add those 2 together and that’s $48,268/yr.
  • a lot of the “Colleges That Change Lives” schools have good merit scholarship options. Go to https://ctcl.org/ for more info.
  • Univ of Chicago - is as hard to get into as Brown.
  • all of the northeast LACs on your list - about as hard to get into as Ivy League. Also as expensive.
  • if distance isn’t a big deal, consider other LACs in OR or WA. Both states lean liberal and are on the VT end of the political spectrum in terms of trans/LGBT friendliness, in case that is a deciding factor for your family.
  • Univ of VT OOS tuition = ~$20,000/yr, so less than Univ of Pittsburgh. But travel-wise, more difficult to get to. And colder.
2460

Also, something to consider when looking at large public universities is since your kiddo is trans, if the school has an LGBT LLC (living learning community), then that might be a big plus…if my kid was LGBTQ+, I’d be encouraging them to consider that because it would make connecting up with other people like you to be a lot easier…since you’d be living basically right down the hall from all of them.

Smaller colleges might not necessarily have that as an option, of course.

Also, for any of the colleges that your kiddo ends up seriously considering, you could also check on the college’s website to see what sort of LGBT clubs there are on campus, then go to those clubs’ websites to see if you can get a feel for how active the club is. One could even consider emailing the club to get more info. Another option is to ask these sorts of questions of the admissions counselor for that college…which admissions counselor you’re assigned to is often based on what part of the country you’re in (they’re usually assigned ‘territories’).

2461

@SueLyon - you should also look at the Academic Common Market website. If you’re VA residents, then you could essentially pay in-state tuition rates (or close to it) at public universities in several different states. go to Academic Common Market - Southern Regional Education Board for more info.

Our family lives out west, so our equivalent of this is WUE (Western Undergraduate Exchange).

2462

You’re totally right! I mean, I know the chances of her getting into a lot of these schools is very small because they’re small for everyone. This is sort of a…schools I thought were interesting list. And I’m still hoping she’ll come around to engineering because I think it’s a practical application of things she likes. There is a one day program at a local college for women and genderqueer people to learn about engineering, and I want her to do it just to see.

Most schools are kind of “difficult” to get to because our airport doesn’t have a lot of direct flights. An east coast college near Amtrak would be best.

I guess I don’t know what schools are sort of LIKE some of the reaches but still have similar vibes. I have heard of the colleges that change lives list, and I believe I looked at them at some point. I will look again.

I would say up to 50K a year after our prepaid plan and some of the 529 plan would be doable. Theoretically, we could pay sticker price for these schools. I just don’t know that a lot of the school that cost 70-80K a year are really worth it. I would rather keep some of that money for graduate school.

I also haven’t really looked at many public schools out of state because we have good in state public schools. But I should look more.

2 Likes