There is such a thing as “no ask, no get” but implicit in that is the answer can be and, most likely, will be no. Unfortunately, I think a lot of people who subscribe to “no ask, no get” think the answer should be yes, no matter how big the ask.
After being a parent for over two decades, one thing is burnt into my brain. There are parents and children who cannot see themselves clearly - no matter how explicit the criteria and judgement.
One of my children did competitive gymnastics and it was wild to hear parents in the stand after a mediocre or poor event wonder out loud how they child could have been scored so low. They were always outraged. I sat there and wondered what they had seen while their child was competing because it was clearly completely different from what the rest of us had seen. The strangest thing about this was there would be incredible gymnasts at every meet…and all I could think to myself was, “Can you truly not seen the massive difference between what your child did and what these other children did?”
I think of those parents a lot when I hear parents seem to have no clue of their child’s relative position academically in their own school, let alone how that compares in a larger field, try to push for reach schools - thinking ED or EA is going to be the magic wand. There is thinking your child is amazing (which I hope each and every one of us does) and having some grip on reality.
I’m very much inclined to trust the data over statements by admissions officers. Talk is cheap - as economists like to say. Admissions officers characterize the admissions process in ways that are not accurate all the time. They say that there is no disadvantage to applying test optional when all of the available data indicates otherwise (and now at least the Dartmouth and Yale admissions officers have admitted that publicly). They encourage everyone to apply - and send marketing mail to that effect - even though they know many of the students who receive this marketing would never be admitted. They claim not to want to favor privileged students when many of their policies (legacy preference etc.) indicate otherwise. I believe that individual AOs are well-meaning - I suspect it’s more a case of saying what you want to be true rather than nefarious deception. But count me among those who are cynical about this whole admissions process.
Regarding the sample sizes you list above: I wasn’t quite sure if you are suggesting that the sample size is small. It’s a healthy sample size for the type of regression model the authors use. It is certainly not a random sample of all students applying to college But “all students applying to college” would not be the right population to study when you are looking at ED decisions by elite schools. And you are right, some characteristics of individual schools etc. have changed over time but I have not seen any systematic changes that would skew the direction of the authors’ highly significant and stable results. (No way to know for sure, of course.) Also, the authors’ theoretical model shows that the results they get are exactly what we would expect to see in an efficient college admissions market (two-sided market with incomplete information). I found that to be one of the most interesting parts of the article. An EA/ED round that favors early applicants is exactly what you would expect to see in a market in which candidates do not have complete information about how colleges perceive them, and colleges do not have complete information about how much a candidate likes them. You don’t even need to add yield management incentives or the like. It’s in essence a formal model that captures some of the flavor of Juno16’s point above. (Sorry - I have not yet figured out how to link someone in a post.)
for students to let colleges know that they truly have a #1 choice
(as not to fall victim to “yield management” considerations), and
of course, for colleges not missing the opportunity to accept someone more interested – who by the time of waitlists, could already be settled in with another choice.
Yes - would be good if a different terminology was adopted, e.g., “academic reach” vs. “high rejective”, to make clear whether the odds are more controlled by the applicant’s data vs. the college’s data.
Dennis Miller had a joke about this. As he put it, “How many short sleeved, lime green, polyester suits does a man need? Two for one? I mean if they really want to screw you they’ll give you three of the darned things!” (NSFW words changed)
Regarding the ED/EA vs RD chances for unhooked applicants, I think I will never know the answers until all school diclose all relevant datas. My D22 was accepted to Amherst in RD, but would’ve she had the same outcome guaranteed with ED? I don’t think so, it could’ve gone either way.
She was deferred and rejected from Williams ED, could’ve she had a different outcome with RD?
Yes, it could’ve gone either way too.
Is anyone else getting emails from idoc saying you don’t have all your stuff in? But when you login it says you have submitted everything that you need?
We filled out the Profile the first week of October and submitted all the documents to idoc before Oct 15. It’s been almost a month since all of our documents were in, but we are still getting emails once or twice a week saying they are not!
I feel like it’s going to be a huge pain to call them, but I will do it if I have to. I just wondered if this was a problem anybody else was having.
Did anyone go on a recent tour of Middlebury or Holy Cross and would be willing to share their impressions? S24 has toured 15 colleges, almost all LACs, but is now becoming interested in adding these two schools. I‘m not sure if we can squeeze in campus tours in the next couple of weeks. He is signing up for virtual events, a virtual interview in the case of Holy Cross, etc. but would still be curious about in-person reactions. We have looked at each school‘s CDS, so are aware of the numbers, and the fact that Middlebury is tough in the RD round. Happy to share our impressions of another LAC in return .
What information are you specifically looking for? We visited Middlebury in the summer. Very pretty campus. Kids looked friendly and relaxed. I have a friend’s son (doing the 3+2 Engineering program with Dartmouth) who is very happy there.
Good question. Any observations, gut reactions, or interesting tour guide tidbits that one would not get when reading about the college or watching videos. Were the interior spaces well-maintained and inviting? Did the tour guide happen to mention that the dining halls have long lines at night? Did the students seem friendly/artsy/preppy etc.?
We went in with a lot of expectations because my friend’s son has always been emphatic about how much he loves it there. The tour guide was very friendly, the buildings are well maintained, - overall a preppy look similar to what you would see at Dartmouth, Colby, Bowdoin. We didnt see any negatives. My son just felt that it was not the right environment for him based on his goals.
Duke seems to do their interviews differently - they request them from candidates “from whom they need more info.” My D24 applied shortly before the deadline (like 10:00), and she only received access to the portal yesterday. As of last night anyway, she’d not been selected for an interview.
From website:
“ Alumni interviews are an optional component of the Duke application process. Due to the volume of applications to Duke, we regret we are unable to interview all applicants. The Admissions Office will prioritize interviews for students for whom we need additional information. Not being offered an interview does not affect your chances of admission. After students submit their applications, those offered an interview will be matched with alumni volunteers who will contact them via phone or email to arrange a virtual interview. Students may expect the interview to last 30-60 minutes. We do not offer on-campus interviews with admissions officers, nor can students request an interview…”
(I went to WPI and had taken a cross-consortium Mandarin class at Holy Cross, so I’ve had some experience with HC. A few close friends graduated from HC and are very active alums who love HC.)
HC is ~70% white, so we saw mainly white students walking around during the tour. There were a few clusters of non-whites.
Everyone seems happy, even on a slightly gloomy rainy day.
The buildings we went into were all very nice, kept up nice, with beautiful old architecture/stones.
Just be sure you don’t mind hills/stairs.
Our 2 tour guides were very perky who participate in a lot of different activities.
We’re not a religious family. The tour walked by a cemetery/old church.
Religion doesn’t seem shoved in your face, but it’s definitely there; students attend mass, etc.
Sorry that I can’t be more helpful.
No warning signs/red flags, except how hilly the campus is.
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