[quote=“lkg4answers, post:463, topic:3544712”]
What type of counselor was this? Is your daughter looking to apply into a competitive dance program?
[/quote] She’s a college counselor who mostly works with charter and homeschool parents. I think she thinks that my kid will have more options for being more “out of the box” if she doesn’t have to complete the requirements that the charter/public school has. Or maybe it’s also that I’ll have more options for different types of classes for her. There really are a plethora of options.
Re: AP Pre-Calc. I know it’s new for 2023-24, but I’ve read differing opinions on who it’s “for”. Is it intended for students who are using pre-calc as a terminal HS course? Does one take AP Pre-Calc and then AP Calc (ab/bc)?
Re: competitive BFA–that is the challenge with this kid. I think she’ll be pursuing multiple lanes at the same time. She will likely audition for trainee positions from high school and also apply for BFA programs and see where she lands. The third possibility over the next couple of years is that she decides that she loves dance but does not need to do it professionally and is happy with strong academics and a strong student run ballet program, which looks pretty different than the first two options. (Let’s just say I’m a little overwhelmed by the options, and I’m not the one applying!)
One thing that I would worry about is going from no AP class experience to suddenly taking 4 or 5! That’s a huge jump in rigor. If it was my kid I’d avoid adding a 4th or 5th AP unless I was incredibly confident they could handle that jump.
How does your daughter feel about homeschooling? For a kid who is already in a rigorous dance program, school is about the only place she is probably getting some casual, fun social time. How will her test scores be (SAT/ACT?). My impression is schools are much more likely to want to see high test scores for homeschooled kids. Personally, esp. after watching how the kids did during COVID, I’d be reluctant to pull a kid who is doing well socially and academically from school - feels like a lot more pressure, even if the classes are somewhat more challenging if she stays in school.
I was thinking the same thing about socialization. @illneversaynever has another thread with more information. It looks like the public charter school is an online school.
That is exactly what my senior did between sophomore and Junior year, so I’d recommend whatever has the best academic option that checks the boxes for entry into selective colleges and also allows her to continue her level of dance. Ultimately, mine decided after a year of Covid homeschooling, that she could not do that again to participate in the full-time pre-pro ballet program. She ended up applying to a boarding school with dance, as a repeat Junior, and is loving it and applying to colleges with strong student run dance clubs/companies.
@Juno16 , I should have been clearer: the charter school is virtual, so she gave up her social circle to do it. TBH, it has been a mixed bag. She has managed to maintain relationships with ~3 kids from her school, which is great. Her bigger social circle is with dance, bc she’s been dancing 6-7 days/week with them. But all but one of those girls is leaving by the end of the school year, so it’ll be drastically different next year. Someone I work with said that if we do a PSA (homeschooling) that she could petition the district to take a class on campus, which would likely be ideal, but I’m not sure that’s true, as I asked about that before I pulled her last fall and was given a categoric “no” by the school. (I will say I was very reluctant to pull her bc I was a public school kid until grad school, so I committed to the charter 3 days before school started. But it has been positive. She sleeps enough and has a lot more control over her time; she’s a pleasant teenager to be around. Who knew it was possible? )
She has always tested well, so I suspect her test scores will be good as long as she does a bit of prep.
@lkg4answers , you’re on top of all the posts! No, we’re in the SF Bay area. There aren’t any public performing arts high schools around me. (There is one in SF, but we’re not in that district.)
Thanks for chiming in; I’ve been lurking following your daughter’s path, as it sounds similar to D25. If you don’t mind sharing, which colleges have you found that have great student dance companies? I’m pretty sure you have a bunhead, too, so let me know if they aren’t ballet-focused. Feel free to DM if you’d rather not share in public.
Your point about “whatever has the best academic option that checks the boxes for entry into selective colleges” is exactly what makes me nervous about switching up the science path. I feel like it will be seen as a ding on rigor if she doesn’t have physics, even if anat/phys is likely more her area of interest.
This part makes me concerned as well. If she wants to keep all the options open, and if she really is likely to be in the running for the tippy top academic schools , then she needs Physics. (ie, she is a 98-99th%ile test taker at baseline–not that tests are everything, but the majority of successful applicants are in that range naturally, on unprepped nationally-normed tests, so scoring that level on SATs is fairly easy, which is necessary in your case given all the hours dancing as well as the general increased need for test scores for kids from virtual or homeschool programs).
In addition to Physics, she needs the most challenging course load available to her, across subjects, to be as competitive as possible, as that is the standard successful applicant’s background.
Many “top” schools have ballet groups including more than half of the top10 universities. The level of dancing and hours available vary, but they exist outside of the BFA context, even in top schools. Those schools, though, look at academics first and foremost, not dance, as they are non-auditioned. The road into a top school is tough, even for extremely involved pre-pro dancers (or other artists) who have all of the other boxes checked.
@2Devils , thanks for this. Honestly, my sense is that D25 is going to fall into the “average excellent” box. She does score in the percentile you mention in general, although I haven’t seen any standardized test scores recently. So will she be in the running for the “tippy top”? Maybe, maybe not. I get that CC skews in one direction, and I generally avoid the “chance me” threads like the plague, but on the random occasions I have wandered in there, I walk out thinking, “Do these kids sleep?” and think that if that’s what it takes to get into those schools, it’s not in the cards for my kids. But I think I’ll keep physics on the radar, although she may push it to 12th grade. I’m comfortable with the rest of the schedule being rigorous enough; I think she can blend honors/AP/DE to make a successful case load. And if it isn’t “enough” for some school, we can accept that she made choices that made her happy–mentally, physically, and academically.
I don’t think I’m quoting correctly, so excuse poor formatting below:
Blockquote is necessary in your case given all the hours dancing as well as the general increased need for test scores for kids from virtual or homeschool programs
Blockquote
Can you explain this? She needs stellar test scores because she’s dancing many hours? Because her charter school has virtual classes? I haven’t heard that anywhere, so am interested to hear more.
Re: schools with ballet groups–My kid will need to decide if she’s aiming for the professional world or not, and the timing of that–if she tries for trainee/company first and it doesn’t pan out and she just wants to keep dancing, these sound like amazing options. But they aren’t turning out pros; she’ll need a BFA if she wants to pursue pro life after college. I have three mental lists running–potential companies and their requirements, BFA ballet programs, and colleges with good student dance programs.
Yes it is certainly hard to keep a path to pro without attending a BFA top ballet program (Butler , etc). I could be wrong that needing test scores is more important for home schooled kids—maybe it’s not—but I have seen it on many threads on CC(which of course does not make it true).
The rigor advice I am sure of because AOs give that advice over and over. I agree with you, if one has to get less than adequate sleep for months on end to accomplish the rigor plus 20+ hours a week of their art, even more hours on other ECs, it doesn’t make sense for any parent to encourage that insanity. However, it is not a toxic plan for those kids who manage to ace the super- hard classes and hardly break a sweat, with plenty of reserve for the rest.
She was a big bun head at a company affiliated pre-pro. Now loves hip hop, jazz, contemporary etc. so ballet in college isn’t a must have for her. Her dream was Princeton’s ballet company and certificate program. Even with a perfect ACT, 4.0 UW, and submitting her dance video she was rejected. The rest we are waiting on seem to have decent non-ballet focused minors or clubs. We’ll see what pans out.
We just found out that S25’s school is revamping the schedule next year, which is changing the number of classes he’s taking. Currently, they have 7 class periods each day with a set schedule. In the fall they are moving to a flex (?) schedule that adds more options for classes each semester. I’m still not 100% clear on how many they can take but I think they will have 9 or 10 class slots a week with one of those being a required study hall for all students. So I think this is the schedule for now:
Honors English
Honors Pre-Calculus
AP Physics 1
APUSH
AP Computer Science A
World Religion (required of all students)
Spanish for Juniors (we got on the language train late, unfortunately)
Honors Band
Band Ensemble
Study Hall
I was initially concerned that he should be taking more AP classes next year to be in the highest level of rigor for his high school, but a recent occurrence has changed my view on this. S25 made an impulsive, silly decision a few weeks ago that resulted in a high cost both to him (physically and emotionally) and our family (due to medical bills). He’s still coming to terms with how one bad choice can have major consequences, and it’s resulted in an increase in his anxiety and some depression. After this experience I’m reevaluating priorities. Of course I want him to have the best shot at a great college, but I also realize that we need to focus a bit more on his happiness, mental health, and character (decision making, integrity, etc). I’m trying to dial back my own anxiety about his course rigor and just let him take a manageable schedule that hopefully will give him some breathing room. He’s a good kid and I know he’ll land at the right place eventually. But this parenting stuff sure can be tough sometimes.
This has been our train of thought with our kids as well. It is hard for me not to feel anxious when all I keep hearing about is “academic rigor” and he is def not in the most rigorous classes. But I feel like there is a balance with a couple honors/AP thrown in and he is doing well. I am seeing kids at his school who are in all AP classes and they are stressed beyond belief and ending up at many of the same “mid-tier” schools as the kids who have less rigorous schedules. I just want him to work hard and land someplace he feels excited to be, and do so without becoming a totally stressed out kid.I am fine with “healthy” stress so he learns to work hard and handle when things do not go his way, but many kids are under unnecessary pressure from parents and peers these days and I do not think he will get anything positive out of that.
I’m not familiar with your HS of course, but that actually sounds like a pretty grueling schedule. 2 honors, 3 AP, 2 academic classes and 2 music. I doubt anyone looks at this and wonders why he isn’t trying to do more.
Thanks for your feedback. I’m really trying to navigate this with his mental health and well-being as our priorities. He’s a wonderful, bright kid, but he’s also immature and has ADHD. He may not be mature enough for the same course load that other kids of similar abilities are taking. A few of his friends’ parents are pushing for their kids to be put in ever more rigorous classes against the advice of the school, and I think it would be a recipe for disaster for my kid. He’s already doing homework until 11:00 pm some nights, I can’t imagine him doing more. Again, I appreciate hearing your feedback and perspective!
We have classes taught in one semester on a block schedule. Largely to avoid hiring new teachers, we moved to a 5 block system a while ago. So theoretically kids could take 10 real classes a year. I think it is almost possible to graduate at end of soph year, which is crazy and kind of dumb.
All of my kids that had the option ended up having at least a few quarters with 5 classes. It is always a struggle. The expectation is that they will take one study hall, so just have 4 classes at a time (which is still 8 a year). Lots of kids end up only taking a few classes senior year and get internships or other jobs.
D25 is a bit concerned because one of her friends, who is sitting near the top of the class with her, said she was taking 6 AP classes, which are weighted. They are supposed to be capped at 4, but I guess this girl was told they wouldn’t enforce it. I don’t know if that is right or not.
What I do know is that D21 is a lot harder worker than D25. She ended up with an unbalanced schedule of 1 AP first semester and 3 second semester one year, and it about broke her. So I told D25 that even if the school lets her do it, it is a horrible idea. She knows her sister and herself, and figured if D21 struggled with the workload she wanted no part of it.
I’m severely disturbed by guidance counselors being required to decide on checking the “rigor” box or not, simply on the basis that there is no single agreed-upon definition for what in the world that word might mean, even within the context of a single high school’s offerings.
Not to mention that because this idea of “rigor” is expected, some students are taking 4 or 5 AP classes each semester. D21 took 4 advanced classes, two honors equivalents, plus an independent study her first trimester senior year. It nearly broke her and burned her out for the next year, including her first year of college. And we wonder why students are struggling with mental health. I’m seeking to help D24 find better balance as she’s not cut out for the stress, which feels like a blessing.
I have a S23 who is at the whole college application process right now. He was in gifted classes in middle school. End of sophomore year he started to lose steam. Junior year he was put in a couple of classes with teachers he had major issues with (some of his complaints I agreed with, others not). Well, my son is stubborn and dropped his GPA to a 3.3. End of junior year he was suspended for a few days. I had to get him into see a psychiatrist. He has lots of things at home he is angry about and I totally understand.
I did not force academic rigor junior and senior year. I know my kid and it just was not worth the battle and stress.
He is now applying as a music major. None of the schools he applied to are even in the T50 in typical rankings. But merit is still out there. My son fortunately got a 35 on his ACT so he has sent that into every school that will take it.
He has been offered anywhere between 2k-45k/yr in scholarships at different schools. We will have several options under 30-35k total COA.
My D25 is a solid 3.0 kid with only one real EC right now. We are focusing on finding the schools with the right fit versus trying to mold her into something she is not to look good on an application.
Thanks for your sharing your son’s experience. I’m so glad that he’s had success in his application process.
We saw my son’s psychiatrist last week, and he agreed to raise the amount of S25’s anxiety medication for the time being. He also was very supportive of us taking a reasonable approach to course selection. I know that the psychiatrist (who we adore and have been seeing for the past 9 years) sees all kinds of kids who are struggling and he reassured me saying, “Your son is doing great and will end up exactly where he’s supposed to.” It definitely alleviated some of my worry!
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