<p>My D is the only graduating senior in her class to have begun taking HS classes as an 8th grader. The classes she took are the three freshman level math, science and computer classes that are the only honors classes offered at that level. (Those and soph year math, science and computers are the only honors offered at all.)</p>
<p>When it comes to calculating her gpa, I understand that every class she took to fulfill high school graduation requirements should be included in her gpa. What I am having a problem with is the fact that every other kid in her class is evaluated FOR RANK on the basis of their 9th, 10th and 11th grade scores, while my daughter is being ranked also on her 8th grade (HS) scores. </p>
<p>I feel that since this is the only comparison made between she and her peers, the comparison should be made on the basis of the same years' data--ninth, tenth and eleventh. (This is what the colleges that re-calculate gpa's do--they don't calculate on the basis of the classes taken, but the data from the particular years in school) </p>
<p>I have no idea how much her rank would change if recalculated, but she did get her only C first semester freshman year. I also have no idea of the distribution of gpa's and whether a recalculation would move her up at all, or move her up 20 spots. It could make a difference between 1st and 2nd decile for her, which could be significant at a college that weighs rank heavily.</p>
<p>Our school does the same thing. They warn parents and kids that the grades will appear on the high school transcript. They do try to recommend only kids that they think will get at least a B in these classes. I've come to the conclusion that there is no absolute fair way to compute class ranking - if it truly ends up making a difference your child can ask the GC to put a line in her recommendation that says something like. "___ was the only student in our school to take high school level classes as an 8th grader. If we hadn't counted these classes when calculating her GPA, it would have been ___ and her rank would have been number ____."</p>
<p>IMO these courses should be listed on her transcript, but not counted for class rank...Here is my reasoning:</p>
<p>1) Most, if not all, colleges DO NOT want to see anything from before 9th grade. They may realize that her class rank is affected by 8th grade courses. (see #4) Conversely, if they are going to use the 8th grade courses for class rank, you should then be able to use her EC's to your advantage as well.</p>
<p>2) This is like comparing apples to oranges; colleges do not like to do that, especially from the same school. Get your hands on the school profile that goes out to colleges with transcripts....It may help your dilemma; it may list that students are ranked from 9th-11th...</p>
<p>3) What has the administration responded to you about this matter?</p>
<p>4) Worse case scenario: Write a letter to all of her school with a detailed explanation and/or request that her class rank be left off of her transcript with an explanation from the guidance department.....</p>
<p>I honestly don't get this anyway; Many students take algebra I honors in 8th grade all over the country. (I even know of quite a few schools where students take it in 7th grade and honors geometry in 8th). THese are courses required for hs graduation, but NEVER show up on their hs transcripts, never mind used for class rank.....
You have some work to do....Good Luck!</p>
<p>(a) Are a zero-sum game, so that any change involves winners and losers. That makes change especially difficult to achieve without a LOT of lead time and organization.</p>
<p>(b) Are often embedded in the system in ways that are difficult for non-experts to pull apart. When my kids' school DID change its ranking methodology, it wound up having to calculate all of the ranks by hand the first year. It barely met college application deadlines for that year's senior class -- no one had a rank until November.</p>
<p>We had a problem with ranking methodology for our oldest child, and it wasn't even an issue that would affect anyone else (except for 40-50 kids whose rank would have gone down a slot). We got nowhere, even with the argument that maybe she shouldn't be ranked at all. What we did get was a negotiated phrase describing the issue which the principal directed the GC to include in his letter to colleges.</p>
<p>DS has grades from when he was a 10 yr old 6th grader on his HS transcript. It made no difference in his unweighted GPA, though it made a smidge of a difference on the weighted. I used to care, but now I'm of the mindset that the grades are what they are -- when the schools see the other things he's done, I can only hope they'll put it all into context.</p>
<p>Kids who are taking HS classes while still in middle school are likely to have some fairly accelerated coursework by senior year. That matters more, IMHO.</p>
<p>Mathmom - Thanks. That may be what I'll request</p>
<p>Rodney - Apples:Oranges. Exactly. The GC responded to my inquiry/request by saying the disparity is accounted for in the grade weighting. My response to her was that regardless of weighting my daughter is being ranked on the basis of grades she earned in the eighth grade and the others are not. She said she'd talk to the principal. </p>
<p>JHS - I did recognize that anyone ranked below her would be bumped down a spot, but since not officially changing their ranks would have only a positive effect, couldn't they just let it lie for the others? I thought it just meant recalculating D's gpa and inserting it in the array of gpa's. I hadn't thought of requesting that she not be ranked at all. That would be fine. Mathmom's verbage or something simply stating that my "D is the only student whose rank is established with a gpa that includes grades accrued when she was an eighth grader" may be our best option. (Although, come to think of it, there may be kids who took a foreign language in the eighth grade whose grades are also included. My understanding was that they did not get high school credit for that though, just the opportunity to start at the 2nd year level. Even so, it should be noted, right?)</p>
<p>The kids are being ranked on their high school curriculum. Your D just happened to take a few courses from that curriculum earlier. My town includes the h.s. courses taken in middle school. D's Catholic h.s. does not, as girls come from 80+ towns (and out of state) so there would be no standardization. </p>
<p>Was she able to take more AP & honors level courses than her classmates because of her early start? This would probably boost her rank if the grades are weighted. Also, her first semester C would not be calculated in the GPA; the grade used is the final grade.</p>
<p>As to noting the courses taken in 8th grade, I've seen some college appliations that ask that specifically. If a kid only takes three years of math in h.s., because he completed freshman algebra in 8th grade, it will still count as four years of h.s. math.</p>
<p>Hey, after I posted this I realized I'm significantly off topic: maybe there is another thread about this somewhere. My apologies.</p>
<p>The phenomenon of pushing young kids into high math early creates interesting problems. </p>
<p>I was at Junior High parent teacher conferences last night and the line was out the door for the 8th grade Accelerated Algebra teacher. They were the angry 6th grade parents who were driving their children to this class each morning. Many of them were undone by the fact that their 10-11 year olds were getting their first B's and C's. These are parents who had pushed very, very hard to have their children admitted to the class and are now facing the reality that, for many reasons, this may not have been the best idea. </p>
<p>Pushing kids ahead a grade or two carries the risk that the child may actually not be able to earn an A in the class yet. Maybe proceeding through the math curriculum at a slightly less accelerated pace would be better for the child academically, and, of course, socially, when the 8th graders may not make life easy for a precocious 6th grader.</p>
<p>As someone who skipped 6th grade, and came to regret it, I've allowed my kids to move ahead one grade level in some courses, but not until Junior High when they seemed better able to understand the possible negative outcomes as well as the benefits: GPA might suffer, but child might get an extra AP class or two at the end. It has inherent risks.</p>
<p>Certainly there are many kids nationwide that are in your D's situation. Our son spent half of the day in 8th grade at the high school and the other half at the middle school. All those hs classes are part of his transcript and computed in his overall gpa.</p>
<p>Interstingly, last year as a junior he had a freshman in his calculus class. The acceleration is good for some kids and "not so much" for others.</p>
<p>Actually his early start has given him a leg up on the competition and is ranked #1 largely because he was qualified to take AP classes as a freshman. Had he not done well it would have worked against him.</p>
<p>My D's rank was adversely affected in a different way. She is 4.0 unweighted with a number of AP courses. No other student has taken more APs (some have taken as many), but my daughter also has taken more non-AP courses. Because the school weights AP scores more highly, my daughter actually has a slightly lower weighted grade than some of the other students. Thus she was penalized for taking more courses than anyone else, and her rank is lower. Although we are frustrated that she won't be recognized as No 1, she doesn't care, I suspect it won't really matter for colleges, and we just chalk it up as one of life's minor injustices. No big deal, actually.</p>
<p>I just received a call from my daughter's guidance counselor. D's gpa has been recalculated using only her 9-11 grades AND her rank has been adjusted. She only moved up 4 spots and is still in the 2nd decile, but they are leaving the 8th grade grades out of her gpa calculation (while still including them as fulfilled requirements on her transcript) with a 3.835 instead of a 3.74. Couldn't be happier!</p>
<p>I have a similar problem to the ones mentioned about taking a lot of non-AP classes. I'm in the most AP classes that any sophomore at my school takes (some take the same number), and have two other weighted classes, which brings my academic high school GPA to a 5.0 (so far this year). However, due to the fact that I've taken/will take many community college courses that are not weighted, my rank and GPA are not as high as many kids who take less classes. I'm not bitter about this, I just think it's rather strange that they wouldn't weight the cc classes.</p>
<p>Reverse - OMG, you mean we may have to battle for college classes too??? My daughter is also taking college classes (university, actually) and I just ASSumed they would be weighted.... At least, if she get's the C that is likely in Calculus II, its effect on midyear/end of year gpa will be apparent.</p>
<p>Schmoomcgoo, thanks for starting this thread! I have a kid in a similar situation, and was wondering about her 8th grade classes, too. Time to pick up the phone and call the school!</p>
<p>At my son's hs school, it was not required to include his university courses anywhere on his hs transcript, since he had already fulfilled all graduation requirements. When he applied to colleges, he had the university send a transcript, separate from the high school transcript.</p>
<p>My son chose this route not because of the effect on his gpa (he did well in the university courses) but because he asked ahead of time at some of the colleges he was considering, and was told it would be easier for him to get advanced standing for the university courses if they did not appear on the high school transcript. (But you have to careful to keep the total credits at less than a full year.)</p>
<p>D's school does not include college courses on the transcript. It would be impossible to have standardization & course approval, and would likely invite gaming of the system. Anyone who wishes to take college courses can do so on her own time & the administration is happy to write the necessary letter for admissions. But these courses do not substitute for any h,.s. requirements. </p>
<p>There are a few dual enrollment courses taken right at the h.s., and those are taught by h.s. faculty & count toward the h.s. curriculum.</p>