OP, if you plan to make the decision based on this thread, be careful analyzing experiences from decades ago. Today’s educational and professional environment is very different, including the cost and competitiveness of college education, degrees /accreditation / licenses required for most professional jobs, job market etc. I am very successful in my professional career, but even back then it required a fare bit of luck. If someone tried to follow my professional path today, in addition to the skills, experience and decades of studying and training, it would definitely take A LOT of luck, connections, or both (note that I said “in addition” - just luck and connections alone would not be enough, but my point is that those are required today) I am not posting this to discourage you from following your chosen path, the best and the brightest (and sometimes the luckiest) still have a good chance to make it, and I see many examples at my own work. But I would advice to put experiences of your parent generation into perspective. Of course, some would disagree…
Re: #40
Yes, some career paths that were not that hard to get into and progress in for the current parents’ generation are considerably harder for those trying to enter them now (beyond typical economic and industry up and down cycles). Law is a commonly cited example these days. Academic careers were probably a lot less difficult to get into during the great university expansion of the 1950s to 1970s than they are now.
On the other hand, some types of jobs and careers that did not exist or barely existed a generation ago have significant career track opportunities available now.
My career path - a cautionary tale for unfocused procrastinators? A ringing endorsement for the value of a liberal arts education? You decide.
BA in Art History and English Literature. Ended up abroad when my promised job disappeared over the summer. What was supposed to be a one-year gig turned into a 9-year education, an up close look at the costs and benefits of globalization, a view of foreign policy from a hotbed of anti-Americanism and a nuclear crisis or two. Worked in broadcasting, then went to grad school for industrial design (teaching English to pay for tuition). Worked as an economics reporter during the Asian financial crisis. The art history degree came in handy for a job organizing an international art event. My one link to those heady times is doing translations for art catalogs. Schizoid, I know.
Came back to the States with a husband and a baby, and went back to school for international relations. Marriage fell apart, and I wound up working for municipal government - not quite the State Department or glamorous NGO of my dreams. (See the pattern here?)
But the civil service job gave me and my kids job security and excellent benefits. Never could my East coast snobby self have imagined living in, much less loving, Los Angeles. In a city known more for freeway gridlock, I get to be at the forefront of pedestrian-, bike-friendly transportation projects in an industry (civil engineering) that has been more visionary and progressive than most about sustainability - all without being an engineer. I still pinch myself.
I’ll do my husband, and then me…
Undergrad major: Statistics and economics
First job: Working in sales for a minor-league baseball team. He just hated it, too. Not a great salesman.
Jobs/career path since college: For the most part, he has stayed in minor league baseball working as a play by play broadcaster and in media relations. He did take three years off to teach math at the high school level.
Passion: It’s still baseball. He still loves it. The downer is that he missed out on some things with our sons over the years. But he still loves the game and all it brings to his life.
Me:
Undergrad major: History. I loved the classes.
First job: Worked as a sports editor for a small weekly newspaper. I had been an intern for the company, so when there was an opening, I got it.
Jobs/career path since college: I worked as a reporter or editor for weekly and small daily newspapers for many years, then I had kids. Needing something that did not have such wild hours, I went into retail sales, and I was quite good in the field. I continued to work as a freelance writer for years. Wanting to be on the kids’ schedule when they were in school, I returned to school to become a school librarian (I always loved books and reading).
Passion: I know this sounds silly, but I love arts and crafts. Maybe someday when I am retired, I’ll have a chance to sell some of the things I’ve made. And maybe I’ll return to retail. I really liked the people whom I met.
I think a common point here is many of us were open to different opportunities, not assuming our academic training only led in one direction. Today, it feels like many kids think you pick a path in late high school.
What is his take on the analytics that have been increasingly used in various sports (e.g. the Moneyball story)?
I have a BA and MA, both in English Lit/ESL. ( I also loved Biology and was one class short of a French minor.)
I taught ESL/composition for a few years. After grad school I worked for the chairman of med. school dept. for 4 years. Quit working right before 3rd kid was born. Stayed home raising (7) kids and homeschooling for more than 10 years. As kids got older/ younger ones entered school, I started doing tutoring/test prep.–now tutoring math almost exclusively.
Interests/passions: plants/my rose/vegetable gardens, (should’ve been a botany major), puzzles/math problems/trivia/Jeopardy, etc., tea, poetry, crocheting, my family, my cat.
H has a BA in history and is a physician.
His passions are foreign languages, music, history, film/theater, travel
- BS Math with concentration in Computer Science (school did not offer computer science major at that time)
- Programmer/Analyst
- Software engineer
- Music -- I was clearly a far better academic student than I was a musician, so I have pursued music as a hobby for all of my life. Sometimes I get paid for it (wedding gigs, pit orchestras) and occasionally I've been mistaken for someone who studied professionally (gotta love that!) I have often wondered how/if my life would have been different had my parents encouraged me in music (I really wanted to learn piano from a very young age and would have loved the opportunity to take private lessons much sooner than I did -- which was when I could afford to pay for them myself.) But I also wonder if I might have tried to be an astronaut had I not believed (initially) that all astronauts were male and (secondly) that I was lousy athletically and therefore wouldn't have been able to pass the physical requirements. (I'm no star athlete, but I'm far from uncoordinated -- just had a really poor self-image for a long time.)
I really have no complaints. I’ve always enjoyed programming, and for the vast majority of my career, I’ve worked with wonderful people.
BA Economics, one class shy of an Art History minor (read: underachiever)
MBA w/ concentration in Marketing, one class shy of a Finance co-concentration (see a pattern here??)
Both degrees from top-10 schools for those impressed by the “elite” among us, but I was the middling guy with a B+/A- average that none of the “elite” employers wanted to interview at the time (yes, over half the class at elite universities fall into this category, not everyone can get a 4.0).
Career track has been in commercial banking and real estate - financing, developing and investing in large commercial real estate projects. Have bobbed b/w the debt and equity side throughout my career. Currently run a small real estate investment company that is looking to grow aggressively (it is my capstone, dream job, as my backers and co-workers are long-term colleagues and friends).
Here is the CC editorial to combine 50 different threads I’ve read:
Due to my education, I know many “captains of industry,” wildly successful people in all walks of life, both self-made and scions of wealthy families. I remain friends with many, but not a single graduate of either school has helped me one iota with my career. I met a mentor in my first job out of college and he hired me for 4 of my 8 jobs that I’ve had (he was a grad of Queens College, the one actually in Queens, not England!!). While my degrees provided me with the analytical, communication and critical thinking skills I needed to be successful, I have never been part of some elite cabal of high achievers - I attached myself to some gritty, street smart bankers early in my career, put in the hours, learned the industry and forged my own success. Anyone with a combo of interpersonal skills, intellect and street smarts can do the same thing. I will say however, that based on my experience, individuals who have all three of these attributes are not commonplace. That said, they can be found at all levels of schools.
Many of my schoolmates have larger balance sheets than I do (which I sometimes envy), but I don’t consider them more successful. I have had a good life, remained healthy, raised two great kids, have a great life partner in my wife (who was on my freshman hall), and I am able to earn enough to live comfortably in one of the most expensive (and beautiful) areas of the country. For all of the fantastic opportunities out there to make millions on stock options, be an investment banker, or a top specialty surgeon, the fact is the vast majority of folks will end up like me, even if they attend elite schools. But is there anything wrong with that?
I’ll second all the stuff that people posted on not trying to game the job market by picking a “strategic” major, but this is a fun community-building exercise, so:
- Short answer: Linguistics. Better answer: It's complicated (as I've posted before on a couple threads). I started out my undergrad as a biochemical engineering major and promptly flunked out (in hindsight, more due to a lack of maturity than a lack of academic ability, though I wasn't all that well prepared for college by my high school background, either). I wanted to major in American Studies at the community college I landed at, but they weren't offering the courses I needed that year, so I got an associate's in General Studies. I then transferred to the state flagship, and declared a major in Linguistics almost by accident (again, it's complicated), and got my bachelor's in that subject. (I could have gotten a second bachelor's—not just a second major—in German, but I was too stubborn about loathing literature courses to take one more German lit course my final year.) I then went into a PhD program in Linguistics (it's normal for the field to skip the master's, particularly if your undergrad degree is in Linguistics), and got my PhD in it mumbleteen years ago.
- I was incredibly lucky enough to get a tenure-track college faculty position in Linguistics (as a linguist within an English department) while still ABD in my doctoral program. (What can I say? The job market for academic linguists hadn't crashed yet. Nowadays that's probably not a viable first step—I'd've at least needed to go through a postdoc first.)
- I've moved institutions a couple times, but I've continued to hold tenure-line college faculty positions in Linguistics (but always within English departments) since then.
- My professional passion is linguistics—so that happy accident at my state flagship (ending up in a field I'd never heard of!) worked out nicely. If I had to do it over again, knowing what I know now, Linguistics would still be up there but my amateur love of both Food Science and Geography (the weeds of the academic disciplines, not just pop-culture treatments, though I do enjoy using pop-culture food science to improve my cooking) would make them contenders, too. Completely non-academically, I do some mostly classical or at least classical-esque musical composing and arranging (and I must say that I do have a good enough intuitive grasp without training of musical theory that it annoys my music-major sister, much to my sibling-rivalry delight), but that's just a hobby I don't have enough time for, and certainly not something I'm good enough at that I'd be successful majoring in it.
BS in Nursing
Staff nurse at hospital (hired before graduation)
Same place over 25 years later
Theatre/dance: started training a year after graduating college. Have done numerous commercials, film, tv, radio and stage performances for over 25 years as well. SAG/AFTRA member. Also had the privilege of combining the two by being an “on set nurse” behind the scenes on movies and soaps.
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Undergrad Major - EE at RPI, did the coursework for minors in math and philosophy but didn’t bother filling out the paperwork to make them official.
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1st Job after UG - EE designer, electromagnetics, antennas, analog circuits for a small company.
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2nd job - Stock and bond salesman for a “Wolf of Wall Street” type outfit. Better money, soul-destroying atmosphere.
Since then - After a year, back to job #1 with the original company, then switched to a similar position on the west coast. Compared to big company engineering, the pay is mediocre, benefits stink, but it has given me flexibility to be involved with kids and family.
- Passions - I grew up in a very active and physically capable family. Dad was a national champion in his (low-profile) sport, brother has won national championships in two different sports. I finished near the top in regional and state championships but never had the drive to compete nationally and have since become anti-competitive. I still do active things, mostly outdoors stuff like bicycling, mountaineering, and fly fishing. By the way, pray for rain her in the PNW; the snow in the Cascades is pretty well gone below 7000’, only occasional small patches. We could jump across streams that would typically be 20 feet wide and waist deep this time of year.
I really wish I had more of a passion for my brand of engineering. The design work is routine, true challenges are sparse, much more is going on in Asia in my field. Once my wife’s three year-old company is more profitable, I may pack it in and start my own in a totally unrelated field.
In HS I wished to become a K-9 officer. My father was strongly against this idea, fine, I got BS in BioPhysics.
In college I dreamed about immigrating into US … for any job. I got into Ph.D. program. Signed for the very first Ph.D. program that accepted me (Stanford). Didn’t care about the fact that my Ph.D. had little to do with my major.
During graduate work, I got in love, married, and got my first child. My children became my passion. BTW, as a graduate student with family I had stipend, free housing at the Stanford campus, free medical care, and even free child care. If I remember it correctly, food at the medical school cafeteria was also subsidized. Financially, it was a very good deal. I got around $17,000 per year and it was more than enough for our family. We could even afford skiing vacations at Tahoe.
After the Ph.D. I was looking for a well-paying job. Started working in the legal field. Got job, lost job, got another job, etc. Returned to academia.
In retirement, I am dreaming about a dog kennel with German Shepherds.
BA - Business Admin.
First/last job was in operations at a major airline. Held various positions in operations (think “mission control” of airline) including aircraft routing, scheduling, planning, and management. Probably didn’t matter what my degree was in, but when promoted to management I needed to have A DEGREE to be more competitive.
I hadn’t a CLUE what I wanted to do with a BA in Business (which I liked) until about 6 mos. after graduation. A friend of mine told me about an airline position and I applied. Worked for the airline for 15 years and THAT was my passion. I loved working for an airline and feel so grateful I found it as it sure wasn’t a career path anyone talked to me about!
- BS - chemistry and certified to teach math and science secondary ed.
- Taught H.S. chemistry and physics
- Taught in public schools (had to change schools when my husband took an OOS job) and later switched to corporate training (software for a computer company) for better hours! <<<<seriously.
- Have been 'retired' since my daughter's birth. Will be an empty-nester this Fall and will do things I enjoy (travel, sports...for instance we'lll try to see Blackhawks games on the road, reading, cooking, organizing my life, while assisting aging parents and in-laws). Then in a few years my husband and I may look into some kind of more structured "work"/volunteer commitment.
I will just add that my husband and I feel fortunate for what we have been able to do in our young adulthood. (We strongly recommend the “pay yourself first” mentality!) We come from modest backgrounds, but with hard work, similar values (financially and family-wise) and luck we’ve been able to position ourselves for the future.
< If someone tried to follow my professional path today, in addition to the skills, experience and decades of studying and training, it would definitely take A LOT of luck, connections, or both …>
I’ll honestly disagree. I am working with students, daily. On one hand, students are better educated, connected, organized, motivated. Far more motivated than my generation, IMHO. On the other hand … they are not bold enough. IMHO, the best way to learn swimming is to start swimming. Nowadays, students take a test in aptitude, learn swimming, take a test in swimming proficiency, and only then they enter water for the first time, to find out that it is cold and wet.
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Poor kids, they are bombarded with this message.
- What is your passion?
- What are your academic interests?
- What are your non-academic interests?
- What is you favorite athletic activity?
Of course, kids feel that they are under pressure to make choices.
^^Yes I recall the school giving one of mine a “career aptitude” test in middle-school and I recall thinking how really not right that seemed.
^^^My niece, the Notre Dame grad/lawyer, was told that she would make a fine custodian! It was her “Martha Stewart” phase and she loved/loves to clean and organize things! We still laugh about it.
I feel like an outlier. I wanted to be a psychologist and did. I worked at a Harvard hospital for a dozen years, a few years at a women’s college (which I liked, but pay too low). Mostly private practice, but did time in residential and day treatment programs, and part time at family service centers.