Why do kids live on campus? What could be easier than rolling out of bed practically right into a dining hall, being close to classes and activities, not having to look for an apartment or sign a lease, not having to worry about a summer sublet or paying for a room you don’t use? My D was in Andrews first year, after a fresh rehab and then into Tech House, which was fine, super convenient location. I don’t think most students are as sensitive as parents are to the condition of dorms. Not sure how much time most kids actually spend in their dorms/rooms for one thing and also whatever the state of the dorm itself they can (and do) decorate to their tastes.
Harvard is renovating their dorms. I liked the old ones!
Brown’s dorms are varied. Freshman year in the old brick buildings means the charm of the older campus in some cases. The Grad center offers privacy: many singles. My son didn’t mind it, nor did I- and his friends all had singles nearby. I can see what people here are talking about though. Not sure how my daughter would have fared!
Minden wasn’t bad at all, though they were a bit crowded.
Senior year at Brown brought a suite in apartments, modern, quite nice- if the guys kept cleaning up.
What I think is missing at Brown is the house system of a Harvard or Yale, which creates a real community for three years after freshman year in the Yard. But my son loved the place and with the freedom to choose classes and the general ambiance, it is still my favorite school.
Yale has old dorms also. However, they have been totally renovated and while still old and cramped in some instances, they are nice. My D went to a summer session at Brown the summer before applying to colleges. The dorms were one of the reasons she was hesitant to apply to Brown as her second choice. But as a graduate of Yale who lived in the dorms prior to their renovation, I can say that I would not pass up the experience and education to live somewhere in brand new dorms. I am sure most Brown students feel the same.
Thanks for catching my typo!! It completely changed what I was trying to say.
What the original poster was complaining about was not a lack of amenities - it was dorms in very poor conditions. "
"Dirty walls, carpet, drapes, bathroom missing tiles, peeling paint, completely brown and rusted air vent. "
I have to agree with @watchingthemsoar. At $65K per year and a huge endowment, the dorms should be maintained properly over the summer so they are presentable and sanitary. It doesn’t cost so much to make sure rugs are cleaned/replaced, tiles are fixed, and walls are repainted. There should be no rust, mold, etc… This is basic stuff that a landlord would have to fix - why shouldn’t an IVY League school.
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@suzyQ7 I appreciate your comment. It is my feeling exactly. I don’t know if other posters realize this, but in the past few years, in order for students to get into a “suite” situation they have had to come up with a large amount of additional money ON TOP of what they are paying for housing already. Yes - to have a decently maintained suite with a group of friends, EACH STUDENT had to come up with an additional $2000 PER SEMESTER I believe it was (it may have been more, not sure - someone correct me if I am wrong someone, but that is what my kid told me). This became something of an issue with my kid and his friends, as some wanted to go for it out of desperation for cleanliness, but others could not afford it.Then they ended up in Grad Center. Now, FINALLY, beginning next year, this was done away with so I am hoping my kid can access one of those decently maintained suites for his senior year with his friends. This “additional fee” for suites was set up, I am told, so that students with money could be assured of a “nice place” as it eliminated a lot of other students (particularly those on financial aid) from competing for them. I was glad to hear this “suite fee” was done away with, but somewhat disturbed that it even existed in the first place. Talk about separating “haves” from “have nots” And as SuzyQ7 mentioned, and I agree with, at $65K per year and a huge endowment, this type of situation should not even be necessary.
A few years ago my daughter attended one of Brown’s summer science programs. She stayed at the Littlefield dorms - they were horrible! The carpets were bulking, the common area furniture looked like it came from the Salvation Army. For a double - there was enough room however the walls were lacking a good paint job, suffering from poor lighting etc. We were all very happy that she had the chance to attend the program - it would give her an idea of what a college dorm and dorm life might be like. The dorms did not leave a good impression! She is now in the process of applying to college. Brown is on her list however not at the top of the list. Her major concern was the state of the dorms. I know that students apply to the Ivies for more than the dorms, however the condition of these dorms are health issues. I don’t even think the idea of attending an Ivy school is worth living in these conditions for 4 years. It wouldn’t cost much to make some upgrades. We have visited several other schools (in the same price bracket) and their dorms are much better. So there really isn’t a reason for Brown to leave their dorms in such horrible shape.
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@watchingthemsoar My daughter was in a double her freshman year, and in suites her sophomore and junior years. Looking back at the bursar statements, the suite fees were $4392 per semester, which was $792 per semester over the cost of the regular room ($3600) freshman year. The fee was for the added benefit of having a kitchenette/living room. It doesn’t really have much to do with the condition or quality of the room. The condition is more dependent on the dorm and many dorms will have a mix of suites and singles/doubles. Apparently the differential pricing has been eliminated as of next fall, with all rooms being charged at the higher suite fee. https://www.brown.edu/about/administration/bursar/tuition-and-fees-0/undergraduate-fees
I agree that the dorm conditions you described are unacceptable. My daughter’s rooms have all been okay, with the only problem having been a radiator that never turned off her freshman year in Keeney. I think parents need to speak up when dorm conditions are subpar!
I hope your son gets a good spot with his friends for senior year.
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I agree that the conditions can be improved, but as a parent I do not want to see the money spent on new dorms.
I guess that’s the internal debate that the school goes through–do the students really want the better housing? If students demanded better housing, Brown would likely build it. But there’s a good chance that if Brown speculatively spent $100 million on new dorms, there would not be enough demand to justify it. Upperclassmen seem to like living in hovels with 5 other friends in order to save $200 per month. It’s hard to change that mindset, and dorms are a loss leader.
And Brown does not have a “huge endowment” at least not in comparison to its peers. It has a problem that it is located in the center of a populated historic district so expansion is very difficult and expensive. It’s the same problem that Harvard faces, but Harvard has an endowment 8x or 9x greater and their money can move mountains (or a neighboring town called Allston). Penn, Hopkins and Yale can tear down whole city blocks and Duke and Dartmouth can cut down some trees to build a new dorm, a luxury Brown doesn’t have.
If you read the BDH, pretty much any time some project begins, there is an editorial criticizing the university for not putting that money towards more financial aid. Much easier to justify diverting money away from aid to things that actually enhance education.
With regard to what a landlord would be allowed to allow - it might just be the expectations I had of dorms vs. apartments but most of the off-campus apartments my friends were in were even more run down than the dorms.
Just want to thank @ciervo for clearing up the “suite fee” issue- although I am at a loss as to why “Apparently the differential pricing has been eliminated as of next fall, with all rooms being charged at the higher suite fee” due to the condition of the dorms. Why does the cost of housing continue to rise and the quality/upkeep does not? As far as replacing the dorms, mentioned above, I have never advocated that as being necessary. My concern (see my OP) is that the existing dorms simply be maintained up to basic living standards, something I could do myself given a weekend and some cleaning supplies/paint/hardware. I agree with @iwannabe_Brown that financial aid should be a priority. And I agree with the students who don’t like to see flashy buildings, etc. going up rather than putting money toward financial aid.
I think the idea of maintenance is key. As stated - because of the location there really isn’t any room for new buildings, I don’t think they need new buildings- they just need to clean up & fix what they have. Students don’t need high end posh dorms just clean maintained dorms.
The dorms are fine. They are bigger than most non-state school or non-very suburban/rural campuses offer.
Their condition is moderate, and I went before any of the major renos of the last 5-7 years. Honestly, that’s mostly because most students are totally disrespectful of the space and really run it down throughout the year. Move in day can be dusty but otherwise is when the place looks best.
@watchingthemsoar one of the reasons for the reduction in suite fee, as I understand it from DD, is so that lower income students and students on financial aid are not limited in their housing choices because of financial situation. Brown works hard to foster social justice. Reducing suite rates means wealthier students are not automatically preferenced in housing options.
"My concern (see my OP) is that the existing dorms simply be maintained up to basic living standards, something I could do myself given a weekend and some cleaning supplies/paint/hardware. "
This cannot be repeated enough. The issue is with basic standards. If all units are the same price now all units should be up to standards.
More first year and upper class dorms will be renovated this summer. Brown has been renovating some every summer for both lower and upper classmen. It will be nice to have DD moving into a recently renovated dorm rather than having the dorm she just lived in being renovated the summer after she moves out! Four first year dorms will be renovated this summer in addition to upper class suite dorms.
http://www.browndailyherald.com/2017/04/17/first-year-dorms-undergo-renovations/
Painting, minor repairs, and changing carpet is not very expensive, and is must for any building. If you can’t do that then you are negligent, and shouldn’t be involved in putting up new buildings.
Sounds like Brown should be spending more on basic maintenance. If you don’t, then you end up with real problems that won’t be so easy to fix.
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Quite frankly I’m not sure how many of the landlords in the college hill area agree with you. Like I said above, from my memory, the off campus apartments were what were rundown and lacking basic upkeep. The dorms are mostly just ugly and poorly laid out.
Brown definitely is making an effort - Keeney was fully renovated a few years ago with the addition of elevators and al-new lounge areas with very nice kitchen spaces. It’s definitely all a work in progress.
My D just returned from ADOCH and said the dorm was the worst she had seen on her diff college visits. It was a sophomore dorm her host was in so maybe that was why. She said it was super dark, weird stains on the ceiling and walls, and smelled. It was New Pembroke something. I’m not sure what to tell her except that maybe the smell she could work on with air fresheners… yikes.