Part II: Student Opinions of USNWR Top 30 (Balanced? High-Strung?)

College Search & Selection
1

<p>The following question was asked of students:</p>

<p>In terms of study habits, most of your fellow students are:</p>

<li> Mostly normal people who have a decent balance of work and play in their lives. It’s all good.</li>
<li> Frequently high-strung overachievers who tend to wake up early and study late into the night. They vex me with their diligence.</li>
<li> Not incredibly studious. A good rerun of Star Trek: The Next Generation will keep them from going to class.</li>
<li> Mole-like creatures with hollow looks in their eyes who recoil from the sunlight and flinch at loud noises, preferring the darkest, most silent corners of the library. Disturb them at your peril.</li>
<li> Too drunk to understand this question.</li>
</ol>

<p>The answers for the colleges of the USWNR Top 30 national universities were:</p>

<p>Balanced , High Strung , Mole-like , Too drunk , College , # of Student Responses</p>

<p>72% , 22% , na , na , Rice , 18
72% , na , na , 17% , Vanderbilt , 47
70% , 21% , na , na , Notre Dame , 105
69% , 16% , na , na , Duke , 51
68% , 18% , na , na , U North Carolina , 68
65% , 25% , na , na , Columbia , 69
60% , 15% , na , na , Princeton , 40
60% , 27% , na , na , U Virginia , 52
59% , 28% , na , na , UC Berkeley , 58
57% , 33% , na , na , U Penn , 54
57% , 19% , na , na , Dartmouth , 47
57% , 25% , na , na , U Michigan , 95
56% , 36% , na , na , Emory , 36
55% , 16% , na , na , USC , 64
53% , 32% , na , na , Wash U , 34
53% , 30% , na , na , Brown , 47
53% , 19% , na , na , UCLA , 79
53% , 30% , na , na , Tufts , 30
52% , 41% , na , na , Georgetown , 66
51% , 36% , na , na , Northwestern , 45
46% , 18% , na , na , Yale , 82
46% , 43% , na , na , Wake Forest , 56
44% , 24% , na , na , Stanford , 50
38% , , 31% , na , Caltech , 13
31% , 52% , , na , Cornell , 52
31% , 54% , na , na , Johns Hopkins , 39
28% , , 26% , na , MIT , 39
23% , 58% , na , na , U Chicago , 48
na , 26% , na , 29% , Harvard , 217
na , 48% , 26% , na , Carnegie Mellon , 23</p>

2

<p>At some schools, I think this varies a lot by program/major. So a student in pre-med fields may see a lot of grinds, hardcore study freaks, and competition for grades, while a student in a different major experiences a lot more work-fun balance amongst his or her peers. </p>

<p>A student who is concerned about a particular study culture might be smart to ask students in his or her intended major what they think, or ask a variety of students for their perspectives.</p>

3

<p>hoedown,
To your point about certain majors eliciting more stress, I did a different sort and list it below. This is the ranking of colleges with the highest percentages of high-strung studiers, as described by their peers. I think that the stereotypes about pre-med or engineering or other difficult environments might apply to several of the colleges at the top of this list. </p>

<p>1 , 58% , U Chicago
2 , 54% , Johns Hopkins
3 , 52% , Cornell
4 , 48% , Carnegie Mellon
5 , 43% , Wake Forest
6 , 41% , Georgetown
7 , 36% , Emory
7 , 36% , Northwestern
9 , 33% , U Penn
10 , 32% , Wash U
11 , 30% , Brown
11 , 30% , Tufts
13 , 28% , UC Berkeley
14 , 27% , U Virginia
15 , 26% , Harvard
16 , 25% , Columbia
16 , 25% , U Michigan
18 , 24% , Stanford
19 , 22% , Rice
20 , 21% , Notre Dame
21 , 19% , Dartmouth
21 , 19% , UCLA
23 , 18% , U North Carolina
23 , 18% , Yale
25 , 16% , Duke
25 , 16% , USC
27 , 15% , Princeton
28 , na , Vanderbilt
28 , na , Caltech
28 , na , MIT</p>

<p>Note: Caltech and MIT, along with Carnegie Mellon, scored highest for mole-like students at 31% and 26% as indicated by students.</p>

4

<p>Hawkette, just out of curiosity, is there a way to reprint that list but also put something to indicate whether the campus has a Greek culture or not Greek culture? I am intrigued as to whether there is any cross-over between those factions.</p>

5

<p>pizzagirl,
I don’t think that there is much correlation between campuses with a Greek presence and the percentages of the study habits of balanced or high-strung students as they are seen by their peers. </p>

<p>Here is the Greek data for the USNWR Top 30 (data mostly from collegeboard.com):</p>

<p>% Students in Fraternities , % Students in Sororities , College </p>

<p>No , No , Princeton
No , No , Harvard
No , No , Yale
13% , 13% , Stanford
30% , 26% , U Penn
No , No , Cal Tech
49% , 26% , MIT
29% , 42% , Duke
15% , 10% , Columbia
No , No , U Chicago
43% , 40% , Dartmouth
25% , 25% , Wash U StL
28% , 22% , Cornell
12% , 2% , Brown
32% , 38% , Northwestern
21% , 22% , J Hopkins
No , No , Rice
28% , 30% , Emory
35% , 50% , Vanderbilt
No , No , Notre Dame
10% , 10% , UC Berkeley
12% , 9% , Carnegie Mellon
30% , 30% , U Virginia
No , No , Georgetown
13% , 13% , UCLA
15% , 17% , U Michigan
21% , 24% , USC
15% , 17% , U North Carolina
10% , 4% , Tufts
35% , 48% , Wake Forest</p>

6

<p>^ Hawkette, does “No” mean “No frats/sororities” or “No data”?</p>

7

<p>It means that, according to collegeboard.com, there are no fraternites or sororities, but I’m not sure how current the data is. It’s haziest for the Ivies (Princeton and Yale) and perhaps a few others. In a few cases, I got the data directly from a website or a CDS.</p>

8

<p>Thanks - I was struck by seeing your post #3 and seeing Cornell, NU, Penn and WUSTL, all schools with a decent Greek presence, near the top. Just idle speculation, really!</p>

9

<p>Like the first thread on student opinions that focused on faculty involvement with students, the data provided in this thread should be interpreted cautiously. This is not a scientific study.</p>

<p>With that disclaimer, IMO the responses to this question reinforce some of the stereotypes that are out there about certain colleges, eg,</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The five most highly ranked schools for student balance in their approach to their studies are Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Duke and U North Carolina. I often post that these colleges are among the group of colleges that offer the best balance of top academics, great social life, and excellent athletic life. </p></li>
<li><p>In cases where students respond that there are a high percentage of high-strung students, U Chicago, Johns Hopkins and Cornell lead the survey. </p></li>
<li><p>For colleges where students describe the study habits of their peers as mole-like, Caltech, MIT, and Carnegie Mellon are the leaders.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>Neither the results of the survey (nor my comments) are even close to definitive as students can have great undergraduate experiences at all of these colleges. But in the search for the right undergraduate fit, knowing what type of environment you are looking for and then finding it is a key piece of the college search puzzle. These responses might provide some clues to investigate in your college visits to see if they are valid.</p>

10

<p>I agree with your general observations, Hawkette.</p>

11

<p>

</p>

<p>I could not agree more.</p>

12

<p>

</p>

<p>Not everyone has the same views on what constitutes great social life or excellent athletic life. To me, great social life is when there are close-knit communities of people that I, personally, can connect to and make friends with easily, and excellent athletic life requires that I, as someone who enjoys sports but is not particularly talented, am able to participate in it.</p>

13

<p>

</p>

<p>Don’t you also include Stanford, usually? It appears Stanford is a bit low on the list.</p>

14

<p>These lists are ridiculous, Hawkette. </p>

<p>You are really going to suggest that a school like Hopkins is any more “high strung” than Penn, Columbia, Harvard, or Princeton based off of a self-reported sample of less than 40 students who probably have an axe to grind?</p>

<p>We all know Hawkette likes the “jock schools” for lack of a better word – Notre Dame, Duke, Vanderbilt, etc. Yet in her blind exuberance for these schools, she fails to mention that different schools are better suited for different types of students.</p>

<p>I know I would have felt suffocated and ostracized if I attended Duke or Vanderbilt. But that’s me. And my preferences are not Hawkette’s.</p>

15

<p>

</p>

<p>Shhhh! If you keep quiet, maybe nobody will notice.</p>

16

<p>cayuga,
Not sure which list you are most objecting to (balanced or high strung?). This is data from an independent website. I reposted the data and anyone can make their own judgments about what it means. These are comments of current students and reflect THEIR experiences, not mine. </p>

<p>For myself, I believe that the responses should be interpreted very cautiously for a variety of reasons, including the small sample size. But that does not mean that the information has no information value to me or you or to a prospective student. Were I a prospective student, I would investigate whether these impressions are accurate and if ABC College is going to be the right fit? </p>

<p>BTW, I was also surprised by the Stanford responses.</p>

17

<p>Hawkette, I actually just filled out the survey for Chicago.</p>

<p>I found that choosing among the descriptions given was extremely problematic, particularly on this “high-strung” issue. I ended up voting that Chicago students are “high-strung,” not because I think that’s an accurate way to describe them, but it was the best of very bad over-generalizations.</p>

<p>If I saw an option for “Most students love academics a lot” I would have chosen that. There’s nothing about being involved in classes and working up to a challenge that screams “high-strung” to me.</p>

18

<p>

</p>

<p>Right. Which is why I can’t buy that Rice, Notre Dame, Duke, Vandy et al have a “better” blend of academics, athletics and social life than (insert your other favorite top university). Indeed, it’s just individual preference and fit. Can I say that NU has a “better” social life than our friendly crosstown rival UChicago? Or simply that the character of the social life at NU happens to fit a wider variety of people and be more of a mainstream experience than the character of the social life at UChicago? Being more mainstream does not necessarily equate to better – just more mainstream.</p>

19

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</p>

<p>Certainly not if you are a fan of scavenger hunts.</p>

20

<p>unalove,
Glad that you took the sparknotes quiz and maybe others will be inspired to do the same. I share some of your misgivings and that’s partly why I don’t take such surveys too seriously. Perhaps the results of such a quiz can illuminate some broad themes on a college campus, but I’d very hesitant to make any definitive judgments based on this alone. </p>

<p>I look at the responses (which I agree are incomplete alternatives) and compare them with the conventional stereotypes that we know about ABC College or XYZ University. Will this be the same experience for all students? Absolutely not, but my impression is that the responses are not completely in the wrong direction either. Anyway, everyone will have their own take on this and that is part of why I posted-to both inform of these responses and to elicit comment about their accuracy and, in cases like yours, their relevance.</p>