<p>I'm interested in science and law and people tell me that I should research patent law. Can someone just give me the basics? Salary? School? Subjects to know? Website for knowledge about it? Anything else? Thanks.</p>
<p>I'm kinda in the same boat as you...I'm currently a sophomore at a community college, all i know with regards to schools is that Berkeley is ranked first and Stanford is up there...I was trying to help my dad file a patent for his company and called a couple of law firms..their rate for filling a patent started at 20 grand, obviously that's not an indication of average salary, but I thought it was interesting that they charge so much for filling a patent.</p>
<p>Waffle and Masta: I have posted a fair amount of information on patent law on this board. After you have read that, if you post some specific questions I will try to answer them.</p>
<p>20K for a patent?!?!?! That's ridiculous. If you think about it, that's a big deterrent to innovation!</p>
<p>I read several of your posts dadofsam. I'm only a high school sophomore, but I'm starting to look at careers. I'm good at science (did very well in freshman honors bio, doing well in honors chemistry, though i just hit a little slump with the gas laws, which was my first grade lower than an A on a science test in over a year; got an 800 on SAT2 in bio, but I guess this all sounds trivial in the grand scheme of things). </p>
<p>I'm also very interested in the sciences, so I'm not just thinking about this merely because I'm good at it. I occassionally read science books in leisure time sometimes (Chemistry by Paulings, books on Einstein, though I can never fully understand it, etc.) and am taking a summer science course over the summer at UPenn.</p>
<p>As you can see I'm very interested in the sciences, which is why I'm thinking of law, as from what I know, law provides good salaries and good job opportunities, not to mention that I think there is less law school time than other professions such as medical school (forgive me if I'm completely wrong on this and am just posting misconceptions). </p>
<p>So the science part I know I'm interested in, but I still want to research what patent law is and how much it utilizes science. I saw the list of majors from patent bar requirements, and they all look appealing to me (not so much engineering as the regular sciences). I hear that biotechnology is becoming a really good thing to go into, and it seems like genetics is the next big thing. Logically, soon, more and more people will be applying for biotechnology patents from genetics. </p>
<p>How are the salaries for patent law (if you don't mind me asking, and yes, I know that it's never wise to go into a profession solely for the money, but that's an important part). I have been hearing that you can make a lot of money off of patent law, and I like science, so I might actually have fun while doing it. </p>
<p>What is your area of patent law? Do you enjoy it? Are there any general facts I should know? Is it competitive/hard to get a job? What is the age where you should finally finish education and start a job? Any other info would be great.</p>
<p>Before the patentbarstudy.com site wasn't working, but now it is, and I just looked at some overviews of what you do, qualifications, salaries. It really looks like this may be for me. Science, writing, inventing, creativity, actually talking with people, good money...it seems up my alley. </p>
<p>If anything could be added to my basic questions that would be great. I'd still like to just get some foresight on how I should go about college courses, experience, etc., in case I really do decide to become a patent attorney.</p>
<p>I'm finishing up my sophomore year at a community college, and have realized it will be really difficult for me to do engineering at a 4 year university once I transfer, because I haven't taken any engineering classes. I intended on majoring in bioengineering, I think all the stuff going on with genetics is pretty interesting, but I didn't want to go into research or bioengineering, mainly cuz I want to study law. Would a minor in biology be worth anything (to employers) if I major in political science?</p>
<p>Waffle: As I've said elsewhere, don't try to pick an area of science or engineering because it might be a good area for patent law. Choose a science like you would any other major - because it interests you enough to work hard for four years to learn it well (and get good grades). If it works out, you're going to be spending four years and more with it; you'd better like it. (For the same reason I also advise everyone to study engineering only if he/she would like to become an engineer.)</p>
<p>At this time, biology/genetics/biotech/biochemistry is a solid area for patent lawyers. So are other technological areas. If you're aiming at patent law in any biotech-related area, however, you likely will need to get at least a Master's degree to have the greatest opportunities - however for many areas of engineering a bachelor's degree could be sufficient.</p>
<p>If you have a strong interest in being a scientist, you might or might not like patent law. As a patent lawyer you will not be doing any science yourself - although you will be talking with scientists and writing about the science. But it's a full-time desk job. I was originally aiming at becoming a scientist but found that I was better at working with science than trying to work at it. So I write about science but don't actually do any of it. And I apply legal principles in my writing - and in my corresponding and talking with patent examiners and in evaluating patents.</p>
<p>Experience - since law school is a post-college item, the chances are unlikely that you'll be able to get any experience in patent law until at least you graduate from college. At that point you might be able to get a job as a patent examiner, or in a law firm as a technical specialist - although an advanced degree might be needed to get either job. More likley, if you go to law school, you will aim for a summer spot in a patent law firm.</p>
<p>It's also possible that, once you graduate college, you could study for and take the patent agent's examination before you had obtained any actual experience (although some experience with patents really helps on that exam).</p>
<p>By the way, there are two main subclasses for patent lawyers - those who write and prosecute patent applications, and thse who litigate patent cases. The former work heavily in science, daily, in an office, and never see the inside of a courtroom, while the latter combine a knowledge of science with the abiities and work of a trial lawyer.</p>
<p>Masta: a minor in a science like biology could be interesting to an employer or a graduate school, but would not qualify you to become a patent lawyer - too few science courses. But if you're looking to be some other type of lawyer, major in whatever you want. Practically no major will give you much of a foundation for law school. </p>
<p>Any further questions?</p>
<p>I won't choose an area to major in just because it could be good for a career for money. If I did that, then I'd major something that would help me towards pre-med, despite the fact that I hate hospitals. I really do like biology and am good at it, but who knows, as I'm not done chemistry and I still haven't done physics (though I know somethings about physics and find chemical physics fascinating).</p>
<p>Another field that I've recently thought about is a science researching career, as I have a relative who is a top researcher at UPenn, and he seems successful, though he has a really crappy combover.</p>
<p>I like the research aspect of science more than the lab aspect, so I probably won't become a scientist. Just looking at a sample patent application looked good, as I couldn't really understand it, but it talked about DNA, plasmids, isolating bacterial genes, and all that good stuff that I like. I don't think I'll go for engineering, as it just doesn't appeal to me as much. I haven't really looked at engineering, but from what I've read, it can be too much hard work for too little satisfaction, and I've seen this with my uncle and grandpa. </p>
<p>Also, as a general question if I wanted to get started with science majors to get on the road to patent law, would it look more appealing to colleges when they see that I've declared a science major and have done well on the bio SAT2 that goes along with it, along with my summer science program, and that I just really have an interest for science (I'll even just pick up the Pauling book on Chemistry or a Hawking Physics book and read it, regardless of whether I can understand it). </p>
<p>Also as another sidenote, how would it help if I were related to a Nobel Prize Winner who created an important scientific process? It's actually pretty cool that I'm related to this guy, as we just learned about him and his process and had to write about him on this test, so my teacher got all these responses relating to me, as my surname is the name of this process. Anyway, how would that help (sorry if this sounds stupid to ask on the law board, but while I'm already on a tangent, I might as well ask). </p>
<p>Thank you for your responses. I really do appreciate them and feel that I know a lot more and am more enthusiastic about patent law now. I think I should now also go to my science teacher about it along with my geometry teacher, as he majored in engineering and was one of the people who mentioned patent law to me.</p>
<p>"Also as another sidenote, how would it help if I were related to a Nobel Prize Winner who created an important scientific process? It's actually pretty cool that I'm related to this guy, as we just learned about him and his process and had to write about him on this test, so my teacher got all these responses relating to me, as my surname is the name of this process. Anyway, how would that help (sorry if this sounds stupid to ask on the law board, but while I'm already on a tangent, I might as well ask)."</p>
<p>Good scores on SAT2s that are related to your intended major are definitely a plus. The relationship to the scientist could be a big plus, especially if you tie it into your essay and mention "following his footsteps."</p>
<p>Quick question, what's the difference between research and lab science? Just wondering, because I always thought that scientific research is done in a lab.</p>
<p>I could probably tie that into my essay. I believe that my dad actually did that when he applied for medical school. </p>
<p>I'm not the person to ask about research science and lab science, but I believe that research would be more like book work, studies, analyzing information, while lab science would be hands on lab studies. I could be wrong though.</p>
<ol>
<li><p>Scientific research is done in both the lab and by reading literature, analyzing information, etc. There is no separation of these functions. Ideas for the most part don't spring out of nowhere; they're generated by reading literature or listening to or discussing other people's work, which then causes thought processes to occur in one's own brain - followed by checking more literatire and going to the lab to see if the idea generated in your brain really works.</p></li>
<li><p>It must be fun, Waffle, to be related to a obel Prize winner, especially if he knows of your interest in science and shares stories or information. And it can make a great ice-breaker with your science teachers and professors, as you've already seen.</p></li>
<li><p>You might or might not be asked to declare a major when applying to colleg - it also depends on whether you are applying to a concentrated science major of some type (B.S. as opposed to B.A., for instance). You certainly can make use of that interest in your college essays and applications, when the time comes. At that time, check the CC College Applications boards for general tips on essay writing.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>I'm reading about how most law school students majored in English, Political Science, Pre-Law, History, etc. On college board it goes over classes you should take to do well and get into law school, but there aren't any science courses (I guess logically). Because of this, does majoring in science prove to be a disadvantage in getting into law school and doing well in it? One thing that I'm confused about is the deal with taking pre-law classes in relation to law school. When you go to law school, do you start fresh and is it assumed that you know nothing about law, but just have a strong basis in things relating to your field of law?</p>
<p>It is assumed that you know nothing real about law. If you know a few things that might help a little but most will assume that you don't. Also if you want to go into Patent Law, you are required to have an undergrad in science or engineering. If you don't want to do patent law then it doesn't matter what you choose.</p>
<p>The law program (there is no pre-law major, it is a designation and/or program) just bases its recommended classes off of what would be the requested way of thinking (historically, logically, literally) for most law schools and relate subjects to it. Because mostly liberal arts students will apply to law school they list liberal arts courses.</p>
<p>Taking advanced math and science courses will help in the logic games because you are used to thinking mathmatically (this is covered by logic philosophy for liberal arts) and writing didatically and laconically (sciences write lab reports and are forced to think logically about what they put down where this would be covered by analytical history courses and english/tech writing courses in liberal arts) so science & math courses can help those who do engineering. This isn't specified in any pre-law program guide because what pre-law program is going to recommend physics, math and chemistry courses to a liberal arts student?!!</p>
<p>If you want to go into Patent Law a science or engineering degree is required but if you want to do something else think about the area and use you major as a foreground to it. A business major might be best for corporate law whereas philosophy or english/speech comm might be better for ethics lawyer/trial lawyer. Really it doesn't matter but if you're having trouble picking a major that might help direct you if you know what area of law you want to go into. It really doesn't matter tho (unless, of course, you do patent law).</p>
<p>Law schools really assume that you have NO idea about what is going on. </p>
<p>IMO, even a business law or a con law course undergrad won't do much to prepare you for law school. Perhaps you could get used to some of the vocabulary (summary judgment, nolle prosequi, demurrer or whatever else you might encounter), but everyone pretty much gets the hang of that by the first month of law school. I imagine that you would read the cases differently in law school than in undergrad. A lot of law professors are big fans of hypotheticals - "if you shoot a duck, which falls out of the sky, hits someone's dog, who barks, scares an old woman who is distracted - and thief takes advantage of the distraction to steal her purse, so the lady a heart attack and then calls 911, and the ambulance gets into an accident on the way to help her... can the ambulance company bring action against you? the dog owner? the thief? Is this different from the duck landing on her head and causing her to have a heart attack? </p>
<p>Um... don't think there is much undergrad work that will prepare you for that experience!</p>
<p>patent law also looks good for me since for me its probably the most well rounded job that I can think of. You have science, math, english, logic (I enjoy logic, its fun to analyze arguements and see how many people really have no idea what they're talking about just by knowing "non sequitur" and "ad hominem"), history, latin, etc.</p>
<p>I guess that in college I would be taking logic courses to ensure that I would do well on the LSAT, though do you really necessarily need any college courses to prepare you for the LSAT?</p>
<p>No you don't need any. There are just courses that would help you develop the skills you need to take the test. It is sort of the same as the SAT. Do you need a class on analogies to take it. No but if you have taken advanced english courses that have analogies on tests you might be better propared than someone who hasn't really seen stuff like that before. Or you could always just practice on real LSATs.</p>
<p>I've done a little more research an college majors and I'm curious about double majoring.</p>
<p>Two things about double majoring: Would it be good to double major in two types of science (say biochemistry and physics for example) because it might present more opportunities? What about majoring in a science and in something geared more towards law (say biochemistry and political science to take it to the other extreme)? The latter question is what I'm most curious about, as I don't really know too much about units, classes, and credits for majors yet? I'm guessing that it may just be superfluous to try a double major with majors that don't complement each other, as it might be hard to get all the classes into four years and complete all the work. Would a major in a science and a minor in something more suited for law work better, or would it just be better to major in a science and take some classes geared towards law on the side?</p>
<p>Waffle: If you're amining at law school, you don't need to take any specific "law-related" courses, although various people on these boards will recommend a few certain courses as useful in developing writing or analytical skills. If you are interested in biochemistry and patent law, then I advise you get get at least a master's in biochem, as many others competing for positions will have one, if not a Ph.D. </p>
<p>As for double-majoring, I think that you're thinking too far ahead. If, when you get to college in a couple of years, you want to double-major, then you'll take a look at possibilities. Double-majoring will not be a factor in law school admissions; there your GPA and LSAT scores will count the most, not what you majored in, or how many majors or minors you took. Double-majoring is done for the sake of interest, or to build up some qualifications in two subjects, combined.</p>
<p>
[quote]
If you want to go into Patent Law a science or engineering degree is required
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</p>
<p>At the risk of refighting this battle again, I said it before and I'll say it again: It is not required that you have a science or engineering degree to go into patent law. It is very common for patent lawyers to have such degrees, but it is not required.</p>
<p>The USPTO stipulates that lawyers who argue before it must have a technical background. First off, many patent lawyers never deal directly with the USPTO. Secondly, the stipulation is that you have a technical background, which can be shown in many ways, of which an undergrad degree in engineering/science is only possibility. There are many ways to demonstrate such a background.</p>
<p>Case in point. I know of a guy who will graduate from Stanford Law and is aiming for a career in patent law. Yet his undergrad degree is in english. Impossible, you say? Well, consider this. He always did computer programming as a hobby, and after he graduated from college, he worked for several years as a computer engineers and software developer, and in fact became one of the top software engineers in his company, winning several awards from the company and was promoted several times over other people who had formal computer science degrees. While he doesn't have a formal computer science degree, everybody who's ever worked with him all agree that he's a very very good software engineer. I think he even got mentioned in a trade magazine for innovative software design. </p>
<p>He's talked to other practicing patent lawyers and they have all assured him that, despite his lack of a technical undergraduate degree, his verifiably strong technical work experience will be more than sufficient to fulfill the tenets of the USPTO. He's probably a better software engineer than most people with CS degrees that I know, and he can prove it through his awards and his magazine citation. </p>
<p>The point is, if you want to say that getting a tech undergrad degree is a common path to becoming a patent lawyer, then I have no quarrel with that. But when you say that getting such a degree is absolutely required, you go too far.</p>