<p>My D talked to her guidance counselor about her interest in law. Her interest started when she takes AP government, and became a member in her school's mock trial team. Meanwhile, she is also very interested in sciences, especially chemistry. Her guidance counselor suggested her look into the field patent law. We basically know extremely little about it. Would appreciate some input here - what it takes to become a patent lawyer, what it entails, job market, etc. Of course she's still young and this is just a thought. But we are curious.</p>
<p>What’s interesting about patent law is that you have to have an engineering degree (or other similar technical degree) to be qualified to practice patent law before the US PTO. So it’s a field full of ex-engineers and scientists, and lots of the legal issues are ABOUT engineering and science. It has also been increasingly important commercially over the past few generations. Top patent lawyers do extremely well (and bottom patent lawyers can starve . . . but that’s true of any field).</p>
<p>That said, patent law is not the only field that ex-scientists go into. A former partner of mine was a nuclear physicist with a PhD and ten years working at Argonne before he went to law school, and he became a Mergers & Acquisitions lawyer. Other people with that sort of background often find themselves in finance law, or even tax. Or they may litigate issues related to technology – something you don’t necessarily have to be a patent lawyer to do.</p>
<p>Go look at the law school board. Read the first “stickied” thread. It should answer a lot of your questions.</p>
<p>My sister-in-law does not have a science degree or an engineering degree, and has been practicing patent law (almost all of it biomedical) for the past 20 years. (She hates it, by the way, and says the job market is currently terrible, or she’d switch firms.)</p>
<p>That doesn’t sound encouraging. But thanks anyway</p>
<p>Where is the law school board? can someone guide me there?</p>
<p>From “forum home”, select “law school” which will bring you here:</p>
<p>[Law</a> School - College Confidential](<a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/law-school/]Law”>Law School - College Confidential Forums)</p>
<p>I would not recommend patent law to any one. I apply for several patents per year, it is unbelievable how little my company pays to law firms to draft a patent. I work for a large corporation. We provide continuous supply of patent disclosures, but because of the volume the rate paid to law firm is atrocious. </p>
<p>Also, having background in one engineering field does not mean that a patent lawyer will be dealing with patents related to that field. I have to work with lawyers with varying backgrounds and they sometimes struggle with concepts (due to lack of knowledge in my particular field). This means they have to re-write applications, sometimes significantly, on their own time (due to amount paid to the law firm by the company hiring them).</p>
<p>Just the input of a HS senior here: my father is a patent attorney after retiring from medicine (he also has a BS and MS in biomedical engineering). The job market isn’t great right now, but he’s had a steady job with a law firm since he graduated law school a few years ago - he’s found the work to be very interesting and has certainly found having a scientific background to be very helpful. Overall, he really enjoys his work.</p>
<p>And lerkin - pay varies from firm to firm and even client to client. I know some of my dad’s clients are billed in at a flat rate and others are on an hour to hour basis - so he can bill them for the time he does spend outside his office hours. </p>
<p>Sounds like it would certainly be worth it to check out that law school board. Maybe she can talk to some local patent attorneys to get their advice?</p>
<p>Hopefully the OP won’t let a couple of negative anecdotes on this board dissuade her D from considering the field if she’s interested in it. There’s more to it than just drafting patents.</p>
<p>
I think you currently need the degree, or to have taken enough coursework in a technical subject that you might as well get one. I think they call it category A or category B requirements. I don’t know if there are exceptions or you can satisfy it with experience. And maybe there are grandfather (or grandmother) exceptions.</p>
<p>Nope. The requirement doesn’t even nearly require a degree in the area. My sister-in-law probably met the category B requirements:</p>
<p>8 hrs chemistry or 8 hrs physics (must be sequential and include a lab) + 24 hrs of biology, botany, microbiology or molecular biology.</p>
<p>This isn’t even close to being a major.</p>
<p>runeaglerun12,</p>
<p>you are absolutely right that pay varies. </p>
<p>The explanation I have heard is that usually on per-hour basis work comes from smaller companies which (relatively speaking) do not provide much business to the firm. This kind of work is more readily available when times are good and there are many start-ups popping up. However, when economy is bad, law firms have to increasingly rely on a flat-rate basis work that comes from large companies (that guarantee volume).</p>
<p>I have also heard that since dotcom bust (more than decade ago), this is the mode of operation for many firms. They have to do a lot of flat rate work and on per-hour work is far and few in between. </p>
<p>I was myself considering going this route (becoming patent agent, not a lawyer due to minimal training required) several years ago, when I was faced with possibility of increased travel at my work. Eventually I stayed at my work as I negotiated the amount of travel I have to do with my manager. Anyway, I did talk to many patent lawyer and agents, and everyone echoed the theme of bad job market and many unpaid hours (which did not scare me, because as an exempt employee I don’t get paid overtime anyway).</p>
<p>I’m a European patent attorney and kind of love it! But I’ve never been to law school. The only requirement here is an undergraduate degree in a scientific subject (law being an undergraduate degree in the UK anyway, so I don’t know how they could require two undergraduate degrees). Given what we pay US attorneys to file patents for our clients, I suspect I am paid significantly less that a US patent attorney, but I am still paid very well compared to the UK average. My firm is quite large so I don’t usually have to deal with anything outside my field. Occasionally I have to work on some mechanical inventions which are connected to biotech (eg surgical tools).</p>
<p>Just be sure to get advice on the right kind of engineering as an undergraduate major. I know a young man who, last I heard 2 years ago, was an unemployed law school grad with solid training in patent law. This shocked me because he was just so brilliant at everything - summa undergraduate and top of his law school class. Perhaps by now he’s found full employment; I don’t know. He was piecing work together. Based on his intellect, I expected him to soar!</p>
<p>The analysis I heard was that his undergraduate major in civil engineering had too few real-world applications in patent law, compared to chemical or mechanical engineering. A lot of new inventions are in pharmacology and robotics, not roads and bridges. For him, it was too late for a re-do. </p>
<p>I recall his explanation that a patent attorney needs great questioning skills and his own science background for this reason: the lawyer’s questions of an inventor must discern whether the invention is narrow enough to offer a brand new solution, but wide enough to solve an authentic problem (not a problem invented by the inventor).</p>
<p>Where do you all live? </p>
<p>My husband is a patent attorney. He is a partner in a small intellectual property law firm in Fort Lauderdale. He and his partner founded the firm in 2002. He is a patent attorney and his practice employs patent lawyers, and agents. The firm also employs copyright and trademark lawyers.</p>
<p>He can NEVER EVER EVER find enough registered patent attorneys/agents with electrical engineering degrees. Copyrights are different. He can find copyright and trademark lawyers any time. </p>
<p>This article was published in 2011 and outlines why there is currently such a high demand for patent attorneys.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/business/new-law-creates-demand-for-patent-specialists.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/10/business/new-law-creates-demand-for-patent-specialists.html</a></p>
<p>Note the following line: “The most highly sought degrees held by patent lawyers are in electrical engineering, computer science and computer engineering, Mr. Duane said.”</p>
<p>This is my husband’s experience. My husband’s undergrad is electrical engineering and his masters is in information sytems. He recently hired a patent attorney with an electrical engineering degree and he wasn’t even looking to hire someone. The resume came across his desk and people with the credentials of this guy are impossible to fine so he hired him.</p>
<p>The job market for TRUE patent attorneys is very strong. There are people out there that litigate patent cases and they may call themselves patent attorneys. That job market may be very slow, but the market for patent attorneys/agents that can prosecute patents is very hot.</p>
<p>A colleague of my husband who was tired of the grind of biomedical research (constant grant writing) got recruited for patent law. He likes it and gets paid better than professors.</p>
<p>^Did he actually get a law degree or is he just involved in some other aspects of patent law (e.g., Einstein the patent clerk…)</p>
<p>Thanks All. My daughter should read this thread.</p>
<p>collegealum, they hired him before he had a law degree and then sent him to law school on their dime. This was five or ten years ago.</p>
<p>I am a patent attorney with a background in computer science and medical imaging with a degree from MIT. I switched to patent law late in my career after having applied for multiple patents myself. Despite anecotal comments to the contrary from posters who have no clue, it is currently a VERY ACTIVE field. In Silicon Valley and the Boston Area there are dozens of openings for patent attorneys. </p>
<p>The problem is that there is a very limited supply of patent lawyers with less than 20,000 out of 1.2 million lawyers. Many are also close to retirement and not enough are being trained. Despite the glut of lwyers, extremely few of them qualify to pass the patent bar, because of the science background requirements. </p>
<p>You can work for a boutique patent firm or work or as a solo practitioner. Most law firm don’t have their own patent practice and refer the work to specialized firms. I run my own solo practice and simply can’t keep up with the demand. I get referrals from other law firms as well as a network of venture capital firms. </p>
<p>The real opportunity is not handling patent work for large corporations which is low margin and highly competitive but with emerging technology companies. It is virtually impossible to raise venture capital today without strong patent protection. Even in the software field which did not typically rely on patents , it is now routine to seek patent protection. Companies such as Google, IBM, Microsoft and Apple are among the highest volume applicants.</p>
<p>The work can pay extremely well if you know what you are doing. In general, companies will seek more than one patent, so I work typically for several years with each client and become imbedded in their organization working with their executives and scientists. With ealy stage companies, you can also be paid in part in equity which is attractive if the company is fast growing. </p>
<p>Starting patent attorneys are typically trained at specialized boutique firms. Unlike associates at big law firms, the work hours are very reasonable. Because of the very high cost of training, firms are very reluctant to let you go. Patent attorneys with 5 or more years of experience can easily make $200k-$300K in a boutique firm and partners and the best solo practitioners can make much more. Not as much as top litigators, but still more than most attorneys. Best of all, the work can be truly exciting if you like to be involved with innovation!</p>
<p>I would recommend the field in a heartbeat to bright young engineers and scientists. There is strong demand in fields from software to nanotechnology to medical devices and chemistry. A BS in science or engineering is typically sufficient for most fields except biotech or pharma where a PhD in biochemistry or equivalent is the norm. Some companies will pay for law school at night. Where you go to law school is completely irrelevant as your technical background is what matters most. Unlike other fields of law, it is a very fast growing market where demand will outstrip supply for many years to come.</p>