Pay now and borrow later?

<p>People seem to forget that going to a big-name school is as much a status thing for the parents as the kids. Parents are paying partly for the privilege to say "my kid is at X school." They are also ashamed to say "my kid got into X school but I refused to pay", and kids play on this to get their parents to pay for expensive schools.</p>

<p>
[quote]
Fast forward she became Rhodes nominee but withdrew when she won a Marshall Scholarship-

[/quote]
</p>

<p>IF this is true, it is indeed a first. Almost all Marshall winners that are Rhodes finalists interview for the Rhodes, too. And why not? They don't need to accept or reject the Marshall until after the Rhodes. (it also does not fit the profile of any of the recent Marshall winners from Penn.) </p>

<p>Anyway, interesting story.</p>

<p>There's been a lot of posts on this thread but I think hsmomstef with the second post has it right. Let her go to the school where she would be happiest. This could be a high-prestige, high cost school. Or this could be one of the schools that gave her a full-ride. In the end, the hardest part of becoming a doctor isn't paying off the loans, it's getting into medical school in the first place. Premed will take everything you have. If your child ends up at a place where she doesn't fit in and is miserable, she will not be successful as a premed. It's tough enough at a school that you actually like. It's that much worse at a school you don't like.</p>

<p>Also, keep in mind, undergrad and med school costs are not the same. If my parents offered to pay for my undergrad OR my med school costs, I'd gladly let them pay off my med school costs. Top private colleges cost around $45,000 a year to attend (tuition, food, etc.). Private medical schools generally cost around $65,000 a year ($40,000+ just for tuition). Your kid is screwed either way. Although she will be considered an independent by the government, EVERY med school will ask for her parents' info when determining financial aid. You could be 30 years old and the medical school will still ask for your parents' info. Your daughter is unlikely to receive much FA in either med school or undergrad. Take the full-ride but only if your daughter thinks she would be happy at the school.</p>

<p>I would also be weary of using MDApplicants to draw any kind of conclusions as the sample is very biased.</p>

<p>I have the Columbia College of Physicians & Surgeons Student Handbook in front of me. In their Class of 2011, out of roughly 150 students, over 90 went to undergrad at an Ivy. Throw in Stanford, Duke, WashU, MIT, and the other top non-Ivy colleges, you're looking at an overwhelming majority of the students coming from top colleges. </p>

<p>From personal experience, after having interviewed at many med schools, at top med schools and even mid-tier med schools, a huge proportion of the people they interview come from prestigious colleges. At the top tier med schools, practically everyone (over 2/3's) were from a US News Top 20 college. </p>

<p>Here are some personal anecdotes:
1. For my interview day at Michigan Medical School, they sent us the interview roster. This was the undergrad distribution of the students who interviewed on the same day that I did:</p>

<p>Berkeley (6)
Wheaton College
WashU (5)
Case Western
Johns Hopkins (2)
MIT
University of Virginia
Brown (3)
University of Wisconsin (2)
University of Chicago
Stanford (3)
St. Mary's
Yale (4)
UC Davis
Cornell (2)
UMich (6)
Dartmouth
UCSD
Notre Dame (2)
UCLA (2)
Harvard (2)
Oakland University
University of Illinois-UC
UC Irvine</p>

<ol>
<li><p>At Penn, out of 20 interviewees, there were 4 Cornellians (I was proud of the Cornell representation as a Big Red alum), 3 from Harvard, 3 from Yale, and the rest distributed b/w Penn, Duke, and Stanford. There might've been a couple of people from a non-name brand college. I can't recall.</p></li>
<li><p>NYU posts their interview roster outside their admissions office. For the week that I interviewed, Cornell, Columbia, and NYU undergrads made up around 1/2 of the interviewees. </p></li>
<li><p>I've already discussed Columbia, but on the day I interviewed, 3 out of the 10 interviewees were from Cornell alone. </p></li>
</ol>

<p>I'm still of the persuasion that if you are amazing enough, no med school will pass you up. But, at this point, I'm unsure whether there is an active effort to select for top undergrads by medical schools.</p>

<p>I think the biggest mistakes parents make (but, hey, this is a college website) is that they confine their concept of education to what goes on at college. </p>

<p>There's a big world out there, and with some money in your pocket, there's an awful lot to learn that goes on well outside the collegiate walls.</p>

<p>So true mini, but so dependent on the learner.</p>

<p>Please elaborate! I think most people realize that there's a lot more that goes into the college experience than what goes on in the classroom. Based on the title and subject of this topic thread, are you saying that somehow there's "More" to be had/learned from a higher priced school because somehow that will equate to a better paying job, and therefore more money in your pocket; thus your point? </p>

<p>To be honest, I'm not sure I understand how your point ties in with whether to go to a more expensive school and taking out loans, or taking a full ride scholarship and graduating debt free. Unless of course it's the opposite of my first interpretation of your post, and you are saying that by NOT being in debt, once you graduate, you will be free financially to expand your educational experience through "Life Experiences" such as travel, graduate degrees, etc... Very thought provocative. Requires elaboration however. Thx</p>

<p>Travel, travel, travel. Want perspective on economics, gender, politics, philosophy, sociology, geology, political science, rightist and leftist regimes, sexual mores? TRAVEL. There is a lot more to living than professional status, although you need some money to do most things. That said, you can work your way around the world. FYI--go to the Maldives BUT hurry, it's sinking,</p>

<p>Give them the best education you can afford. They will make the world their own. Don't leave them money, don't leave them a house, don't leave them brokage acount, .....if they are inteligent/deligent enough to make into the best college they could today, then will make their own world, make their own money pay every thing they wanted. That's what I believe.</p>

<p>anotherNJmom; I agree. I just want to make sure that we all agree that the "BEST EDUCATION" that one can afford doesn't necessarily mean that the "BEST EDUCATION" will cost the most. Again, I will use the example of being a veterinarian. If you want to be a vet, then probably one of the "BEST EDUCATIONS" for that in the entire country is Colorado State University - Ft Collins, Co. Yet, they are WAY less expensive than going to Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Brown, WM, etc... So, CSU is where the person should go. Do we agree??? That is where just about any Vet would recommend going.</p>

<p>Therefor, it is important that we try and find out what our children want for an education and a career. If they are "SPECIFIC" about both, and one of the more "EXPENSIVE" schools is the best school to get that type of education and ultimately that career, then I am all for trying to help them get there. However; if the child isn't sure what they want to study; what they want as a career; and is leaning towards a generic type of degree such as business, basic engineering, etc..., but they want to go to Harvard, Yale, Cornell, Princeton, etc... because it's their "DREAM SCHOOL", then I have a real problem with rationalizing that it's the "BEST EDUCATION" for the student. Especially financially. </p>

<p>In my opinion, they would be better off getting their under graduate done as free as possible and by the time they graduate they will have the resources to go on to graduate school if they figure out what they want to be. Again, just trying to see if we all agree that the "Best Education" doesn't necessarily mean the most expensive.</p>

<p>The point is simply this - it isn't a matter of comparing schools, but comparing the education available from a school where you pay full freight vs. one where you don't AND are able to use the freed up funds for educational purposes, either during the four years or afterwards.</p>

<p>And I am saying that, in virtually every case I've ever heard of, a free ride at at, say, a Vanderbilt or a really good honors college at a flagship state university PLUS spending the savings on education purposes provides a BETTER EDUCATION than full-pay at any institution in the country, including all of the Ivies (never known for the best classroom "educations" to begin with.) (The only exceptions would be where there are specialized programs that cannot be accessed in any other way.)</p>

<p>Now the caveat is that, if you don't actually spend the funds saved, the comparison goes out the window. And, it also needs to be said, that these conditions only exist for about the top 5% of the population, those who would be paying full-freight to begin with, but not the top 2%, who would have plenty of extra dough to spread around in any case.</p>

<p>If your D is a NMSF, she will surely get a free ride at quality institutions. She will be in honors programs, perhaps an honors dorm, and will find her peers among the thousands of varied students at the Univ.</p>

<p>I say go for the free ride, perhaps with a semester or year abroad, and come out ahead financially & ready for grad/med school.</p>

<p>mini, interesting generalized suggestion, but one I am glad we did not follow for my D. She passed up a free ride at a big 10 university. Instead we paid full freight at a well known private U. Yes, those payments hurt and still do. But, she also won national honors her soph year and recently her senior year that she likely would not have won at the state U. Why? Especially for the honor she won this past fall, that U has a much poorer record of success for this honor, so she is much less likely to have won. She did not start out seeking national honors. In fact, that was the last thing on her mind. But her U has a system in place to identify and mentor applicants, and that is what they did. They actually pushed her to apply. Large state U's don't do this much, because they're just too big and anonymous.</p>

<p>These things are kid dependent, though, and I think mini's advice is by and large reasonable, as long as your kid is not an outlier.</p>