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Which is why you tough it out and attend a CC.</p>
<p>“The big absurd problem with the FA model is that it considers adult children to be the wards of their parents even though this flies in the face of all our laws concerning what it means to be an adult in this society (i.e., 18 or older).”</p>
<p>That may be the problem with the FA model, but what seems “new” to ME, is that some think finances should not be a concern. When did that happen? I understand that cost is WAY more than it used to be, but could that have inflated both expectation AND cost?</p>
<p>I work with high school kids through the college admissions and financial aid process – and, yes, the frequency with which they are messaged either directly or indirectly that if they have significant financial need (very low EFC) their need will be met with sufficient financial aid is painfully misleading. And yet they hear it, read it, repeat it. It is a lie for the great majority of kids from modest income families. There are a lot of kids really feeling crushed this time of year because there is NO way for them to meet the gap in the aid packages, even above and beyond the heavy helping of loans and the family’s EFC.</p>
<p>You see it here, too. Kids who are convinced that it’s even possible to borrow the entire cost of attendance for NYU for four years, then go to med school, and then (presumably) buy a nuclear-powered Corvette made of solid gold. Even if you set aside the crushing payments that you would have to make for a long time to get rid of that debt, you still run the increasingly likely risk that you simply won’t qualify for those loans after 1, 2, 3+ years of borrowing. In that way, a bad idea becomes an impossible idea overnight.</p>
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<p>Part of the problem is that colleges won’t outright say, “If you’re poor, we may not be able to meet your need. In fact, you’re least likely to have you need met.” They have to make their FA sound as great as possible, even if they can’t meed the need of all applicants.</p>
<p>The main reason why this happens is that this rumor, for lack of a better word, is self-perpetuating. And no one wants to say the crushing truth.</p>
<p>One problem that also faces the middle class is the EFC itself. Our family was told that we could pay $30,000 a year for my college, which is patently ridiculous. My parents said we would have to sell our house, or wipe out their savings. I got into Rice, but they only met my EFC, which left me with way too much to try to pay. I’d have $100,000 in loans by the time I got out. Which is why I’m going to Texas A&M. Whoop!</p>
<p>To anatill: Did you account for inflation in your wages? :P</p>
<p>Personally I have felt lost for years and things have been harder living in a lower income family as first generation. I was in esol until 4th grade having to be taken out of important English lessons and having extra work. I went to a terrible middle school. I was fortunate to be able to go to a good high school. My first year of high school was hard becuase I was not use to honors and G&t classes along with not believing I could go to college for reasons. I had to work really hard my second, third and last year of high school. I never had anyone to help with college stuff. I had to do everything on my own (never knew about this site until all my applications where turned in). My last year I’m showing showing promise and am taking the same classes that people at my school are taking which are going to Cornell, Harvard, and a bunch of other good schools. </p>
<p>Point is I think students who have had disadvantages and show promise should be helped. They could be the person to find a cure to cancer, solve energy problems, and other big problems. But if they never get the education then their mind will never process those subjects. </p>
<p>Truth is low income students don’t all get a lot of help. Most low income family students have a hard time. I know someone who got into penn main campus and has a $9k gap to attend. He decided to find an apartment to live in to cut costs. Me personally am lucky to get to go to loyola next year. I will get to truly test what im capable of and possibly go to higher school for engineering. Really wanted to go to University of Delaware but it would be impossible to get $7k each year. I think I just had luck getting a nice deal with loyola</p>
<p>I teach and advise university transfer students at my community college. None of my low income students graduate from the universities without a huge amount of debt, even when living at home. Most travel to school in unreliable cars (no mass transit), work many hours at a low paying job to keep the unreliable car running and often have family members (unemployed, alcoholic, mentally ill, criminal or some combo thereof) that make trying to study at home impossible. Between the long work hours and the family member drama that robs them of what little sleep they get, I am amazed when they finish with us, let alone the universities.</p>
<p>Being a middle class individual, I don’t see anything wrong with going to the state universities or, if a private is what one really wants, going down a few notches on the US news ladder in order to have access to fullride or close to the cost of state schools expenses in order to have the more intimate experience of a small college.</p>
<p>I think that part of the reason that the “myth” of financial aid is perpetuated is that there is the opposite myth that “college is so expensive and only the really rich can afford it.” (Perhaps there’s some truth to both myths, but it really varies across states and colleges)</p>
<p>Low-income students go onto the websites of universities and see the exorbitant tuition. Because their parents did not go to college, they have trouble justifying taking on debt or paying that much for college. Only when the university advertises the fact that they have financial aid, will the student consider applying. The “opportunity cost” calculation changes. I think this is true of many low-income, first-generation college students. Thus, the financial aid “myth” perhaps has some positive effects in that it helps low-income students overcome fears of being able to finance education. You may not see them on College Confidential, but there are plenty of low-income students who make the college decision primarily on the basis of cost.</p>
<p>I personally think that it does make sense to subsidize college education for as many people as possible. Allowing students to attend college will pay returns many times over when that student earns more money and pays more taxes in the future than they would have without college degree. Furthermore, other countries are doing it and there is no way that America will be able to stay competitive in the global economy without a highly educated workforce.</p>
<p>In my opinion, where a student chooses to apply plays a large part in this. There are perfectly good colleges which provide excellent FA aid to low EFC students that are not the top in their class. In 2007 my oldest daughter’s senior year, my husband suffered a major stroke, that left him not only completely disabled and unable to work, but meant we spent nearly a year with no income at all coming in. Needless to say we had an EFC of 0. My daughter had around an 85 GPA (granted at what is probably the best prep school in our part of the state, Texas) better than average but not fantastic SAT (1620)and ACT (26) and some art ability. Decent extracurriculars with community service. </p>
<p>She wanted to stay close to Texas just in case and was planning on being an art teacher. She applied to 2 private 4 year colleges in state, 1 private 2 year college in state, 1 private, 1 public 4 year college in Arkansas, a 4 year public in Louisiana, and the Rocky Mountain College of Art & Design in Colorado (which she doubted she would attend because of the weather and distance, but thought it was a cool school). The other out of state schools gave in state tuition waivers to Texas residents (one of the reasons she chose them). All three of the Texas schools gave her aid packages that only included the 2500 subsidized loan, work study and enough federal and state grants (1 state grant was based on the rigor of her high school classes) and scholarships based on her ACT to cover full cost of attendance. She ended up choosing the private 2 year school, because she meant the art dean, who threw in an additional art scholarship which let her keep her work study check for her personal spending along with a smaller amount of subsidized Stafford and it was only about one and half hours away from home, (her dad was still iffy).</p>
<p>When she graduated w/her associate degree and it was time to transfer, one of the 4 year private colleges gave her the same package they offered her as a freshman, but she chose Stephen F Austin, where she’s in the honors program and doing well. Their package wasn’t quite as good as the other, but she wanted to go there. So this time she has the maximum subsidized Stafford, but no other loans. She is getting to keep her work study money for her personal spending and I’m scrapping up the $500.00 per semester we’ve had to pay. Both these packages were living in the dorm and w/a meal plan. </p>
<p>Her brother graduates in 2011, he’s at a whole different level w/grades and test scores, so he’ll have some more choices, but I’m confident that even if he was at the same level as her, we’d still be able to get a good package. (I’m working 2 part-time jobs, one at home, since my husband can’t stay alone very long, and we receive Social Security, but our EFC is still very low). I’d encourage low EFC students w/just average grades and testing to look at in state schools and not to rule out smaller private schools just because they’re not Ivies. There is money out there. Hope this provides some encouragement to some students out there.</p>
<p>Scribbulus, I’m not disagreeing with you by any means, but the majority of low-income students are first generation. That’s not to mention parents who have no idea (or no care) as to what’s going on in the college world. Sure, I was able to find college opportunities, but for an average student with incapable or uncaring parents, poor guidance counselors, and few mentors to turn to, it’s going to be almost impossible to find the deals that you found. I agree that they’re out there, but disadvantaged students have even more trouble finding them,</p>
<p>"If the parent can report low income, a student could see enough aid to cover the lion’s share of college costs.</p>
<p>the big lie…"</p>
<p>That’s not a lie. She uses the word COULD. I am one of the ones in this situation. I’m in a household with VERY LOW income and I’m getting about $11k-15k back after housing, tuition, etc. are taken out (mostly grants; less than half of that is in scholarship money). Most of that money is going back to my parents since they need it, but still…</p>
<p>^^ Agreed. </p>
<p>Also, not to be rude at all, but to compare your situation to a student who has been raised in a 0-EFC environment is to compare apples to oranges. There is a huge difference between being raised in a 0-EFC environment and having something accidental happen in your daughter’s senior year, which causes your family’s EFC to be 0. Most low-income students don’t consider a 2500 subsidized loan as “excellent FA aid.” You may have the resources to pay it off, but most low-income families do not and are not willing to take a loan that large.</p>
<p>Also, it is, Jake. She’s holding a toy in front of the eyes of parents, telling them “Oh, if you can report income, then you COULD get enough aid.” The parent reaches for the toy (obviously, who wouldn’t?) and then she yanks it back at the last minute, adding, “But your child has to have x GPA, x EC’S, x ACT/SAT, and a brilliant essay.” And, also, she continues, “And you have to be fortunate enough to have the knowledge to apply to a university willing to meet your need without loans. But probably, your child will have to do Work Study the entire year and work during the summer of the senior year.” Neglecting to tell the truth is another way to lie.</p>
<p>Another problem with the system of basing financial aid on parental income is that it allows the parents the ability to control their children’s career choices if they’re so inclined. Parents can make actually paying the EFC contingent on the student making career choices the parent approves of. In particular:</p>
<ol>
<li><p>The parent may refuse to pay the EFC unless the student chooses a major which the parent approves of. This major, and the careers it leads to, might not line up with the student’s aptitudes and/or interests.</p></li>
<li><p>As hard as it is for most people reading this to imagine, there are quite a few people in the USA who don’t believe in university education. They may believe the trades are a better career choice than white-collar careers. Also, many conservatives perceive the higher education system to have a liberal bent. If a student’s parents don’t believe in higher education, they might refuse to pay the EFC to try to push their child into the trades.</p></li>
</ol>
<p>This problem isn’t specific to low-income families. To the contrary, it actually becomes more of a problem as income increases. A student from a low-income family has at least some chance of need-based aid which doesn’t depend on their parents’ approval. (I agree with those prior posters who pointed out that it is far from guaranteed.) A student from a high-income family does not. That said, in case (2), you can’t count on parents who don’t believe in higher education to have a low EFC. Some blue-collar jobs pay surprisingly well.</p>
<p>*I’m in a household with VERY LOW income and I’m getting about $11k-15k back after housing, tuition, etc. are taken out (mostly grants; less than half of that is in scholarship money). Most of that money is going back to my parents since they need it, but still… *</p>
<p>Unless your school has a very highly padded COA that allows you to have $11-13k back after all college costs are covered, then you may find that your grants or something will be reduced and you won’t have $11-13k coming back. Aid is not supposed to cover more than COA. </p>
<p>Back to my claim of the “big lie.” Using that kind of language - *If the parent can report low income, a student could see enough aid to cover the lion’s share of college costs," * without adding a bunch of caveats, is misleading to the average parent just reading the article. Neglecting to tell the whole story is a form of lying because it’s misleading. The fact that your costs are being more than covered (according to you), does not make the article any less misleading.</p>
<p>It is still true that a student with modest stats and a very low EFC is going to find it difficult to get all costs covered at a college that he/she cannot commute to. The exceptions might be those who live in states that provide supplemental aid to low-income students. Many states don’t.</p>
<p>Yes, they (the two Florida schools I’m considering) deposit all of that leftover money into your bank account. They’ve already adjusted my aid based on scholarships and it’s still within the $11k-15k (not 13k) range.</p>
<p>By definition, her statement is not a lie. Misleading? Maybe if you read into it a little too much, but it is by no stretch of the imagination a ‘big fat lie.’</p>
<p>^^
I’m not going to quibble over semantics. The bottom line is that it’s very misleading to parents/students and naive decisions are made based on such misleading info. </p>
<p>Sadly, most don’t realize how misleading the info is until they’ve already gone thru the app process and they’ve received their dismal FA packages. At that point, it’s too late to apply to the schools that would have either been cheaper or would have given better FA or merit scholarships.</p>
<p>Is there any state in the nation where you can’t get educated for less than ~7k/year in tuition costs? This is a serious question.</p>
<p>^Are we considering community colleges in this?</p>