Paying for College on Your Own (The New York Times)

<p>Great post!! I must chime in…The shame is there IS help out there to navigate through this college maze; its difficult to find though!! As a person who helps families with this process I just WISH the info on how to do this WAS readily available for all…in the meanwhile, I continue to get the word out and try to help people in my community with this process…</p>

<p>Unfortunately, many of you in even this forum criticize those of us that do try to help. This poster’s story is heartbreaking for me – this is exactly what I went through in high school 40 years ago and it HASN’T CHANGED!!!..plus this overall thread tells the “truth” – people are misled about how financial aid works and therefore many kids have to go “the hard way” or not at all when they find out that the schools they picked don’t give the aid they expected…what a shame for the kids and our country’s future!!!</p>

<p>[Sorry…this was in response to post that described how her father in herself did it the hard way…working full-time and going to school at night for a number of years…]</p>

<p>I applaud your success…but “going the hard way” is not the answer either…how about these statistics…about 30% of HS graduates NEVER attend college. Of those that start at 4-year schools, 21% never graduate with a Bachelors; that number jumps to 45% if they started at a 2-year college…thats not good for ANY country’s future!!
I believe there are 2 reasons for these statistics – one is affordability (or perceived lack of it!!) and that kid’s pick the wrong schools for the wrong reason, ending up transferring over and over or dropping out altogether…
Further – studies show college graduates IN GENERAL make more money, pay more taxes, volunteer more, vote more, smoke less, etc., etc., etc…sounds like something we as taxpayers should invest in to me…</p>

<p>Strawberries quote…: *What about kids like me who want to go to a school that costs over $200,000 and have parents who have substantial income and assets but won’t pay for my education? Not only do I get jiped by my parents, but I also won’t get any financial aid for being low-income/needy. I’ve been trying to get scholarships, but a lot of them are based on need, so I don’t qualify. Am I just going to be stuck with a ridiculous debt burden or going to a school I don’t want to go to? *</p>

<p>You need a better strategy. You’ve been looking at private scholarships - hard to get and often for only one year.</p>

<p>If you have an EFC that your parents can’t afford, then you need to use your stats to get a big scholarship from a COLLEGE, that will essentially reduce your parents’ contribution. </p>

<p>What are your stats? You’re a junior, right?</p>

<p>BTW…don’t use the word “jyped” - it’s an insult to gypsies.</p>

<p>

</p>

<p>I had no idea where that term came from.</p>

<p>Strawberries: "What about kids like me who want to go to a school that costs over $200,000 and have parents who have substantial income and assets but won’t pay for my education? "</p>

<p>What children have to realize is that the money their parents make is the parents’ money to spend or not spend as they like. Lots of kids every year are in the same position and it affects families whose incomes range around $200K a year, which sounds incredible to many people. However, many parents are nearing retirement age and with what just happened with the market, spending $50 to $60K a year on an undergraduate education doesn’t seem prudent to the fiscally conservative among us. It would be helpful for upper middle class parents to say right up front to their kids: “We are willing to spend _________ a year for your education.” Many, many parents say they will spend what a state school costs and anything above that is the child’s responsibility. Although today, that can be a very big gap.</p>

<p>The problem is that tuitions have skyrocketed. When I was a student, the Pell grant paid for my tuition and books. It’s a pity it doesn’t go that far today.</p>

<p>Most people do not realize it’s a racist term that stems from nomadic ‘gypsies’ who are stereotyped as thieving criminals.</p>

<p>From urban dictionary.</p>

<p>@strawberries21: I completely understand where you’re coming from. I was in a similar situation.</p>

<p>Here are some concrete strategies on how to deal with the problem:</p>

<ol>
<li> Starting at a community college saves a great deal of money. Many community colleges are surprisingly strong academically. Many strong students attend community colleges for financial and other reasons, so you’re likely to meet other talented students. Some community colleges offer Honors Programs to cater to the needs of said talented students. While it’s true that many students take classes and leave, it’s often possible to get involved on campus if you choose to do so.</li>
</ol>

<p>The advantage to a community college is that you probably won’t need to borrow any money to attend. You can probably earn enough money through part-time work to pay for basic living expenses and the rock-bottom tuition at most community colleges. Thus, you can pay twice as much per year for the remaining two years and be back where you started. This dramatically increases the range of four-year universities you can consider as schools from which you can eventually graduate.</p>

<p>That said, it’s important to do some research into the community college you’d attend to make sure that it’s actually solid.</p>

<ol>
<li><p>The public universities in your state are usually going to be your most affordable four-year universities. If they’re academically solid and otherwise a good fit, they are probably your best option. A caveat: State universities usually reflect the culture of their state. This is unsurprising given that at most state universities, the vast majority of students are in-state. If you don’t feel that you fit in socially where you are, you might have a hard time at your state’s public universities.</p></li>
<li><p>Public universities in other states are usually cheaper than private universities if one is paying the full sticker price. Some states are more expensive than others for OOS students. Minnesota and New York are some of the cheaper US states for OOS students; tuition and fees are in the neighborhood of $15,000 in either state. Interestingly, some Canadian universities, notably McGill, are at a similar price point for International students (including US citizens.) Even the more expensive Canadian universities for International students are generally cheaper than the more expensive US public universities for OOS students. Thus, if you have solid reasons to avoid your in-state public universities, public universities elsewhere may be a good alternative.</p></li>
<li><p>If you have solid stats, you may be able to earn merit aid at a private university which brings the cost down significantly. Full rides are rare, but it may be realistic to earn enough merit aid to bring the cost of the private university closer to the price of public universities.</p></li>
</ol>

<p>WARNING: You usually need to be at the top of a university’s applicant pool to qualify for merit aid. In practice, this usually means you have to consider universities which are not the strongest to which you could have been admitted. Dropping down one tier is probably not the end of the world. If the drop is more than that, I’d very seriously consider whether the amount of money saved is worth the drop in academic quality.</p>

<p>NOTE: (4) contradicts (1) to some extent. This is because financial aid is usually better for students beginning as freshmen than for transfer students.</p>

<ol>
<li> If you have an interest in serving this country (I’m assuming you’re located in the USA) and are willing to work very hard, the military offers excellent tuition benefits. Also, people who have served in the military are considered independent for financial aid purposes.</li>
</ol>

<p>Good luck!</p>

<p>private colleges are so expensive so that upper class families can ensure the advantages of private education are preserved. if any ole’ middle class kid from a family income of 150k can attend the private school of their choice, there is less room for nepotism and legacy admits :).</p>

<p>the only real way to “break in” to such a system is by dedicating a generation tomiddle-class accessible professions like medicine or law in order to afford expensive privates for the next generation.</p>

<p>4. If you have solid stats, you may be able to earn merit aid at a private university which brings the cost down significantly. Full rides are rare, but it may be realistic to earn enough merit aid to bring the cost of the private university closer to the price of public universities.</p>

<p>Strawberries has solid stats. He/she could get huge merit if a good strategy is used. However, if top elite (non-merit) schools are targeted, then he/she will be gravely disappointed next spring when FA packages are dismal due to parents’ high EFC (which they won’t pay).</p>

<p>It’s ok to apply to one or two such non-merit schools and a couple of competitive merit schools just to see what happens, but to prevent possible devastation, the student needs to apply to some schools with assured big merit.</p>

<p>Students need to keep in mind that not only can they not borrow big amounts on their own, it’s a terrible idea to borrow big amounts. Who wants a miserable life from ages 23 - 33???</p>

<p>It’s a harder question to answer when loans make the difference between a college education and none. Do you want a miserable life due to the reduced earning power of a HS diploma, or a miserable life while paying back the loans? Community College can help with the first two years, but then the choices may not be so easy.</p>

<p>@vossron: I actually think one is better off with just a HS diploma than with a university degree but massive loans. The HS diploma holder with no student loans will at least get by if they find any job. The university degree holder with massive student loans may have severe financial problems. Also, there’s at least a chance that a talented person will succeed despite only having an HS diploma. For example, they could start their own business. (See my recent post about self-employment on another thread.)</p>

<p>In any case, massive student loans should never be necessary. As noted in (3) above, there are choices which don’t hinge on residency in any particular state where tuition and fees are in the neighborhood of $15K per year. Again, if attending community college, this is multiplied by two or at worst three, rather than being multiplied by four or five as if one started as a freshman. Even with no financial aid, no parental assistance and not attending one’s in-state public universities, it shouldn’t be necessary to borrow $50K or more to get an education.</p>

<p>This was interesting as well…</p>

<p>[The</a> Answer Sheet - Costs of public vs. private college](<a href=“http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/college-costs/comparing-costs-of-public-priv.html]The”>http://voices.washingtonpost.com/answer-sheet/college-costs/comparing-costs-of-public-priv.html)</p>

<p>[Earnings</a> Gap Between College and High School Grads Small - WSJ.com](<a href=“Earnings Gap Between College and High School Grads Small - WSJ”>Earnings Gap Between College and High School Grads Small - WSJ) says that the estimated lifetime earnings difference between average HS diploma and the average college degree holders is between $279,893 and $450,000. Over 40 years of work the average difference is about $9000 per year.</p>

<p>Replying to Mr Payne’s post (#39)
All of the state universities in Oregon, with the exception of University of Oregon and Oregon State, currently cost less than $7,000/year for tuition. Eastern Oregon University in La Grande charges less than $6,500 and DOES NOT charge out of state tuition. Room and board is around $7,500.</p>

<p>@vossron: This statistic expresses correlation between educational level and income. However, correlation does not imply causation.</p>

<p>People who earn a college degree are, on the average, more intelligent and motivated than those who do not. Even without the college degree, those traits still enable one to earn more money. Thus, someone who would have earned a college degree, but does not complete college for some reason, is still likely to earn more than the average high school graduate.</p>

<p>I really should stop reading articles about financial aid and low income students, since it always make my blood boil.
I love it that I came to this country as a First Generation expecting to meet the fabled
" American Dream." What a complete lie that American Dream is. Even though I placed in the top of my class, and belonging to a reasonably just-getting-by Working Class family, I still could not see or make up why America in itself have laws that give so much to the low income, and next to nothing to the middle class. I love it that I would work 20+ hrs in the local grocery store, my parents breaking theirs backs working 12hrs shifts for 6 days in a Potato Chip Factory just to pay my college bill to a STATE school ( which refuse to give me ANY aid at all, but loans ). While I will see a woman swipe her EBT card, take out her WIC checks and be dolled in Coach Bags, Channel Glasses, UGG Boots, Luis Vutton Clothes, and her daughter going to college on a free ride because she was “poor.” I find it a major flaw that those who worked so hard, earned money to attend college could get punished. Ugh, it disgust me so much just thinking how I ended up getting punished because my parents and I worked hard our entire life.</p>

<p>To RedUnicorn – Post 76</p>

<p>I sympathize…if you don’t think “fair”, then find a college advisor who can see if they can maximize your opportunity in the “system”. Unfortunately, many in this forum trash those advisors…</p>

<p>FYI…its what I do with passion in my community. Help those with this exact issue…love finding opportunities for those who never thought they could afford to go to a school that on paper may be out of reach…</p>

<p>Community college in Maryland does NOT cost $5,000 a year in tuition. I was curious so I went to check and I looked at a couple of MD CCs. In-state tuition costs between $1500-2700 for in-county students, and around $3,000 for in-state but out-of county residents.</p>

<p>still could not see or make up why America in itself have laws that give so much to the low income, and next to nothing to the middle class.</p>

<p>Because the middle classes enjoy more benefits and privileges than the lower-classes by benefit of their elevated income and status in society.</p>

<p>The “welfare queen” story of mothers on welfare who are able to afford designer clothes and accessories are largely a myth, perpetuated by people who have absolutely no experience with the system and don’t know how things work. I have a cousin that’s on welfare, and while I agree that she’s one of the few who’s abusing the system in various ways, she definitely can’t afford Coach bags and Louis Vuitton clothes. I know a lot of people who are on public assistance and none of them are wearing designer clothes beyond the Gap, maybe.</p>

<p>First of all, you don’t get checks on WIC; you get a card that enables you to purchase certain limited items at the grocery store for the nutritional benefit of your child(ren). It doesn’t translate into real money. Similarly, EBT cards can only be used at grocery stores to buy unprepared foods (my cousin can’t even get paper plates or a cake for her daughter’s birthday with EBT if I remember correctly). Even the money that you can get on welfare is difficult to live on even with a child, much less purchase designer purses and clothes with.</p>

<p>This kind of scorn for people on public assistance is unwarranted. College is a privilege; eating is not.</p>

<p>Community college in Maryland does NOT cost $5,000 a year in tuition. I was curious so I went to check and I looked at a couple of MD CCs. In-state tuition costs between $1500-2700 for in-county students, and around $3,000 for in-state but out-of county residents…</p>

<p>Anne Arundel County resident $88
Residents of other Maryland counties $169</p>

<p>$169 times 30 credit hours is $5000+ if you don’t live in that particular county. And that is not including fees. </p>

<p>Frederick County
in county out county out of state
1 $170.35 $290.35 $370.35
2 $290.70 $530.70 $690.70
3 $411.05 $771.05 $1,011.05 </p>

<p>This one is even higher for county residents and fees are extra. And I don’t think every county has a community college, so some would have to go out of county.</p>

<p>Or is my math way off?</p>

<p>@ Juliet: I’m not scorning all of those on welfare. I believe a large majority need it, but I don’t think a lot should be abusing it. Many in my family are on welfare themselves, but since they think they can cash on free food, they tend to spend more than both my parents. Again, I based these facts on what I know and what I see. Not everyone is a goody two shoe that neatly follow the rules, there are many abusers out there than we realize. Also WIC in Mass is a check, but only it only applies to certain items.
As for the lady I was talking about, the city in which I live in is notorious for “illegal substance smuggling.” I’m not glorifying the lady in question, but merely stating the truth. I have no idea how she got her money, much less buy her daughter every Coach bags and UGG boots that she wants ( which are real). I made my post, because I believe something need to be done to this system, and correct the many flaws it have.

  • As a side note, my family use to be on EBT, and I use to get benifits like reduce lunch and such. It was when both my mother and father got their second job that we lost the “low income” status, even though we’re barely even getting through.</p>