<p>Good grief...I'm surprised! I thought the ED apps might have decreased since other Ivies moved to EA, thus making their Early option more attractive. Not so....</p>
<p>"International student applications more than tripled, skyrocketing from last year's 104 to this year's 391."</p>
<p>Isn't Penn a school that has made it crystal clear that ED is a real boost? They want to take students who want to come. The downside of a real boost is that it is truly harder to get in RD, so why not give it the best shot if that's where you want to go. Maybe ED really schould be completely eliminated?</p>
<p>Cangel, yes. They have made it clear that Legacy apps ONLY get Legacy consideration in the ED round. Also, they are taking 45% of the class from this ED round. I'm still surprised though. Last year they saw a decrease in ED apps, which was attributed to others moving to EA. I expected that trend to continue to some degree.</p>
<p>I think it probably has a lot to do with getting sole ownership of that #4 spot in the US news rankings. I'm surprised about the # intls applying though!</p>
<p>I would attribute the increase to, as lauraanne mentioned, Penn's #4 spot on USNews. It's funny how much influence USNews has...</p>
<p>If it is due to the #4 spot on USNWR, then the sharp increase in Intl applicants isn't surprising since I believe Internationals are more likely to rely on rakings/name recognition than Americans.</p>
<p>i completely agree, most of my intl friends here at penn applied to schools with name recognization, schools that were highly ranked, or schools with a top program in some field.</p>
<p>Historically (at least for the last three or four years) Penn has filled about 50% of their incoming classses through ED. I would definitely think that this can be perceived as more than a "boost" by many especially in light of the growing number of early applications to all the Ivies.</p>
<p>eadad-</p>
<p>We've all shared in the pain of some of our fellow CCers who went through last year's EA massacre at Yale when their EA numbers skyrocketed. What surprised me then was that Harvard saw a drop. I do wonder why the Ivies don't see more uniform spikes or drops.</p>
<p>well...i just added Penn to my RD list, thinking i'd give it a shot (despite it's reach-ness)....and now I figure I have about a .01% chance of acceptance.</p>
<p>bah hambug!</p>
<p>momsdream</p>
<p>The reason Harvard saw a drop last year was that prior to last year they were simply EA. Their switch to SCEA last year precluded applicants from applying anywhere else EA as many had previously done.</p>
<p>That practice had been a way of gaming the system with applicants thinking "why not?" when there was no restriction put on them. If accepted, they would have Harvard in their "back pocket" when applying to other Ivies that they had chosen not to apply to ED but instead were applying to RD. </p>
<p>Harvard's EA yield had been lower as a result of this tactic as well.</p>
<p>Some interesting related articles:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=27458%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=27458</a>
<a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=26546%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=26546</a>
<a href="http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=26668%5B/url%5D">http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=26668</a></p>
<p>My son's highschool has always had many kids accepted by Penn. Last year, it did not happen, at least RD. Many of the early applicants were accepted but the only RD ones accepted were URM or athletes as the data in the College Book clearly shows. There were some kids accepted to HPY&co not accepted to Penn. This year, anyone interested in Penn were apprised of that development,and as a result many kids did apply to Penn ED rather than apply to HPY as lottery tickets with one of the early, putting Penn in the back pocket as back up of sorts, though Penn is hardly what I would call a match much less a safety for anyone. But for some kids whose stats are way up there and their mindset is HPY, Penn does not excite them while they dream about getting into one of their shoot for the stars choices.</p>
<p>A little sad actually, because I know a few kids who are Penn legacies who are applying early so that can take advantage of the edge rather than because Penn is their first choice.</p>
<p>Penn actually didn't excite me very much, but I did like it much more than some of my "match/safety" schools. I would gladly, gladly attend, and since they seem to accept more people outside the top 10% than other schools, I'm praying that they will take a chance. Same with Columbia.</p>
<p>Momsdream, even with the numbers up, applying ED at Penn is a clear advantage "odds-wise". Their acceptance rate in the early round is much higher than in the RD round. As well, they accept a huge percentage of the class in the early round. </p>
<p>At Yale, LAST year, applying early did not turn out to have as much of an "advantage" statistically. They took 15% in the early round and 9% in the regular round. While early was higher rate, it was not THAT much higher, nothing like at Penn. </p>
<p>I have a child who got deferred by Yale EA last year and ultimately rejected. (not surprisingly given the odds there) By the same token she not only got in the RD round at Penn (only school where she had no interview) but was selected as a Ben Franklin Scholar (top 100). Chances of being accepted at Penn still seemed higher to me than at Yale (or H and P). She was waitlisted RD at Princeton. I think with the ED acceptance rate at Penn, your son stands a good chance, still better than the early acceptance rates at some of these other schools, particularly Yale. I realize it is still very difficult but I think the odds of early admission at Penn are still better than in some of these other schools' early rounds. For your son, besides his great qualifications, he comes from a feeder school, so think positively!</p>
<p>Susan</p>
<p>I meant 16% in EA round at Yale last year, sorry.</p>
<p>Susan, I don't think the increase in numbers will make a difference for my son...one way or the other.....as there are still so few black applicants (that still bothers me about Penn and ALL of the other Ivies, but he's fine with it). I was just surprised. I do recall reading that the difference in chances for a ED applicant vs. a RD applicant are not all that great - expcept for Legacies. In 2003, Penn accepted 17% RD and 21% ED....a smaller gap than at Brown. What those numbers tell me is that most Penn students are there because they really want to be, all other schools considered. I haven't done any math to support this, but logic says that if Penn is taking half of the class from ED, and your chances are just about as good for RD as they are for ED, then Penn is taking a more proportionate number of ED vs. RD apps, when compared to other schools (when comcapred to other Ivies, a lower % of Penn apllicants come form the RD round). Penn is so much larger than the others (with 10k undergrads) that it's a little harder to make side by side comparisons on admissions. And yes, once you achieve the stats for Ivy caliber admission, it IS easier to get into Penn than to HYP...no doubt. Penn accepts 2500 freshman each year. That's a whole lot more chances than at HYP. It only makes sense. Also, the average stats for Penn accepted students are lower than HYP....and maybe a tad under Columbia. My son is hoping that this will allow him to remain at the top of the class and secure a spot for his grad school of choice.....part of the strategy. Congrats to your D on Ben Franklin Scholars. It's wonderful to have a distinction that isn't tied to financial need, isn't it? I'm not clear on what the perks of the program are (other than the named distinction). We're hopeful that Friday's news will be good and he'll be blssed with some of the financial perks given to Philadelphia residents....some of which is guaranteed for ALL Philly applicants. Penn has definite perks for Philadelphians and we're here with arms outstretched. We're no fools:) </p>
<p>Ilcalpo, I wouldn't imagine than Penn would suit your fancy after seeing your other choices (Princeton, Dartmouth, Middlebury, Bowdoin, Georgetown, Trinity, Haverford, Harvard, etc) My son, though he has the stats for these schools, wouldn't apply, even if offered a full ride. Why are you adding Penn to your list? The schools are really like night and day. I'm still surprised that you've added Wesleyan to your list. Now Penn?</p>
<p>Momsdream,
I have this gut feeling your son is going to get into Penn. I just do. </p>
<p>Back to the numbers for a moment. Yes, Penn is larger than the other schools and more kids get in due to that. But acceptance rates deal with the odds of admission not the total number who get in. I still think the early round is more of an advantage over regular decision at Penn compared to the differential at some other top schools. I guess I have different numbers than you do. You mentioned 2003 and 21% admitted ED and 17% admitted RD at Penn. I have seen these figures for 2003 at Penn: 36 % ED vs. 22% RD which is a 64% greater chance of admission in the early round than in the regular round (much better differential than at some other Ivies between their early and regular acceptance rates). That year, Penn took 49% of their freshman class in the early round. That also is a higher percentage in that realm compared to other schools like Penn. That is why I was saying that applying early to Penn is a statistical advantage and it is somewhat at other Ivies too but perhaps not as great a differential between the two rounds as is the case at Penn. </p>
<p>I'd have to look up the Ben Franklin Scholars deal. It was not anything we had ever heard of until the admissions letter came. We thought just getting in was going to be difficult and had no idea about this other piece of it. But in any case, it did have some "perks", but I would have to look at the letter they sent to tell you what those were. </p>
<p>Penn is a terrific school. If your son goes, you won't be having to do the major degree of "letting go" that some of us have to do who rarely see our kids. Penn sounds like an excellent fit for your son and he knows what he wants. My D liked it but it not as much as other schools on her list in terms of a fit for her. But there was a lot of good aspects there! Funny thing is, I grew up in Philly (right outside) and had never seen Penn's campus until her college visit! I was amazed at the regular sort of pretty college campus smack dab in the middle of a city!
Susan</p>
<p>I'm a little confused, since Penn is ED, if they take 49% ED, doesn't that mean that the RD pool (which should be numerically larger than the ED pool) is actually competing for only half the places? I understand that if the school "sets" the number of slots available for ED, then one must assume that the odds for the ED pool are based on the number of slots "set", but doesn't that break down somewhat if you have, for example, 1/3 of the applicants competing for 1/2 the total slots, vs 1/3 of the applicants competing for roughly 1/3 the slots? This is why predicting or refuting ED boost is so hard.</p>
<p>Super good luck to your son, MomsDream!!!!</p>
<p>My children's school noted a major increase this year in ED applications to schools that offer more trade-like majors, such as Penn's Wharton. The economy is cited as the reason for kids choosing a more pragmatic educational approach.</p>
<p>No, Penn's admissions commtiee and alumni council on admissions (aca) stressed that legacy is always taken into account, regardless of when you are applying. While it is true that legacy helps in the early admission process, it also helps in regular.</p>