<p>Hey guys. I have a pretty tough decision to make. I got into Princeton, Yale, Penn, and Columbia. I visited Princeton and Yale and their social structures seemed out of place for me, plus I wanted to go to an urban school. So now I’m stuck between Penn and Columbia, both two great urban ivies. Columbia may have the edge academic wise, and I love their core of humanities and civilization, but the campus seems a little cramped. Nevertheless, Penn is more social and “homely” per se, and has a more open ended core, but its campus seems too huge, it seems like forever to get from the high rises to the quad. Both have their drawbacks and their good things. So I’m just wondering which school may be better for a black, law/polisci/history majoring, somewhat social guy, who loves urban cities? Which one has the best balance between the city, academics, and social life (not school spirit but meeting people), and perks like interships and free stuff?</p>
<p>columbia would be better for you... penn is diverse, but i don't think there's as much interaction between races as there is at columbia... it's in NYC afterall and they EMBRACE diversity... Penn is more of your typical college (seems similar to Duke) with lots of segregation (i.e. all black housing basically in Dubois)</p>
<p>You'll meet interesting people at both schools, but if you want lots of drunken weekends full of "social" activity go to Penn.</p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>Penn is known to be the social ivy so if you're up to it there wouldn't be any problems meeting tons of different types of people. And there are enough students at Penn that everyone should be able to find friends if they want to. I'm not sure how diverse Columbia's population is but Penn's is pretty diverse. New York and Philly are both great cities and you can get pretty much the same things in both. A lot of major companies recuit from Penn so if you're a good worker then you can probably get a job right out of school. I don't think Columbia has anything like this, but I'm not completely sure. Penn has a great history department but Columbia has a good law school, too. But if you really like the core at Columbia, Penn isn't really the place. I'd say that it really comes down to your own personality and wants. If you're social enough, Columbia will be a social place for you. If you're not very social, then Penn would probably make you social. My view is kind of biased since I applied to Penn ED and wasn't really interested in Columbia but hopefully I helped you some.</p>
<p>I forgot to mention that I got into both Columbia and Penn.... I already sent in my deposit to Penn, but I'm still having some doubts and feelings that I fit better at Columbia (I HATE THE CORE THOUGH)</p>
<p>Penn doesn't seem like a place where races mix... it reminds me a lot of my suburban white high school where all the blacks are seperate from the whites</p>
<p>The highrises are about 3 blocks from the Quad. If you can't walk 3 blocks without it feeling like "forever" then maybe you don't really want to be in a city. </p>
<p>Penn's campus is small... Everything is basically contained between Chestnut and Spruce (4 blocks wide) and 33rd - 40th (7 blocks).</p>
<p>Reeze you've had very limited exposure to Penn so I think it's a little early to make generalizations.</p>
<p>whartonalum, I'll admit that I've had limited exposure to Penn, but from kids I've talked to, races at Penn "dont mix"</p>
<p>Penn has 10,000 undergrads. How big was YOUR sample size? Did you talk to students of different races? Different class years? Different schools? Different social classes?</p>
<p>i disagree about race doesnt mix at penn...
i just visit penn last week and i made a big group of friends everyone from a diff culture from indian to asian to black to hispanics
segregation exists in every school; it just depends if you want to mix in or not but don't get me wrong tho cuz i loved columbia alot alot before
i just happen to fall in penn even more
its very true that if ur not social...upenn will make u more social and if u r already social then u'll get even better
what made me eliminate columbia from penn is the core (i really dislike it) and the draining of social things into the city
im leaning towards penn cuz of wharton (cuz i wanna do business) so i might be a little bias but im interested in poli sci 2 (im probably gonna do dual degree for that)
come to penn...its not 2 big of a campus
at 1st i thought dang this campus is ridiculously 2 big but then after couple days it all seemed so small after im familar w the environment
the black ppl i met at penn are lots of fun...they are an awesome group...i think u'll like it there</p>
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Penn has 10,000 undergrads. How big was YOUR sample size? Did you talk to students of different races? Different class years? Different schools? Different social classes?
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<p>I'm sorry I didn't do an all out survey of students on racial interaction...but point taken about the opinions of the students I talked to not representing those of the whole campus</p>
<p>I did find out that Penn is like 40% Jewish though (made me upset because as someone in a white suburban jewish town, I wouldn't mind more religious diversity)</p>
<p>The dream that was Penn is slowly disintegrating for me :(</p>
<p>i don't think penn has had an increase of 10% in jewish students in the last 3 years:</p>
<p>note: "Jewish student numbers at Penn remain at 30%."</p>
<p>if ~40% of students accepted to the class of 2009 were minority / of color, and assuming that the percentage of jewish students accepted stays somewhat consistent, then, by your numbers, that means there's only 20% non-jewish / white students accepted, which seems quite skewed to me.</p>
<p>even if penn is perhaps 35% jewish, there's 65% there that is not. penn students come from all over the country and world. you can seek out friends of all races, religions, and orientations.</p>
<p>don't worry about what those students you spoke to do. set a standard of integration for yourself, and follow it. if you and others coming to campus in september are willing to set aside the tendency to self-segregate, you set an excellent example for the rest of your class, the rest of the university, and beyond philadelphia, unto the world.</p>
<p>I believe the correct number is 30% Jewish including the graduate student population but that was something I remember from RA training from a staff member and I don't know if that is published anywhere.</p>
<p>*** EDIT: after looking at the link above, it's interesting to note the entire sentence says "Jewish student numbers at Penn remain at 30%, and students ho identify as Jewish community members make up 10-12%." So only 10-12% are "active" in the Jewish community. I guess that should make you feel better...</p>
<p>Either way, if 60% or 70% of something that isn't you isn't enough diversity, then maybe you shouldn't go to school in the US.</p>
<p>Penn has a lot of religious diversity, which you would know if you spent more time at Penn. The Chaplain's website might be of interest to you <a href="http://www.upenn.edu/chaplain/%5B/url%5D">http://www.upenn.edu/chaplain/</a>.</p>
<p>From my own experience, I had friends who were Muslim, Hindi, Buddhist, Catholic, Baptist, Episcopalean, as well as those who practiced no religion. I went to Kwanzaa, Shabbat dinners, Catholic mass, events with the InterVarsity Christian Fellowship, and took classes on Buddhism. BTW, I do not consider myself religious. However, I did want to learn about other cultures.</p>
<p>Like the person above said, if you want diversity, seek it out. You can have as many friends from different backgrounds as you want to have. Penn is an extremely diverse place and if you think you can't find diversity there then I don't think anyone here can help you. </p>
<p>I am not trying to convince you to come to Penn. But I think that people who have been through Penn might be better suited to comment on the issue of racial and religious diversity on campus.</p>
<p>First off, to Wharton Alum, just because it is a small number of blocks, doesnt mean that it is not a far distance! I have walked down locust casually and it takes me a few minutes to go under the red artwork, over the bridge, and though the class areas to get to the quad. Compared to Columbia, though cramped, it only took me two minutes to get from one side to the otherside of the campus! Plus even though you say Penn's campus is small, it is the 2nd or 3rd largest core campus in the ivy league. Back to the diversity thing, First off I spoke to many minorities and they all said the same thing; "We usually all hang around eachother." I did notice at the college that most of the blacks hung together and groups and so did the asian groups, Im not trying to be prejudice, but I just dont want to be isolated. I felt at Columbia, everyone was accepted as an individual, it may not be an open reception like Penn, but at Penn it seems like there is a sense of not segregation (too strong of a word) but a sense of people being alike in culture flocking together, rather than embracing everyone. And dont defend with diversity stats, diversity stats don't mean a thing. One may have many different birds in a coop, but birds of a feather will still stick together.</p>
<p>So you say that Columbia is cramped, but Penn is huge. Which one do you want, then? Personally, I prefer the slightly larger campus because breathing space is important for me, and I really don't mind the walking. As a boy, you might not need to worry about it as much, but I'm nervous about the "Freshmen 15" and thus walking an extra block or two doesn't dissuade me at all =) </p>
<p>Sometimes you should just trust your instincts though, and it seems like yours point towards Columbia. Columbia's seemingly better academics really should overshadow its "cramped" campus. hehe who cares anyway if its campus is smaller? You will have the entire city of NYC at your feet!</p>
<p>I had to make the same choice between Penn and Columbia as a mixed race person, and I chose Columbia. I did the Multicultural Scholars preview last week at Penn, and I could definitely sense self-segregation. In particular I hated the WEB DuBois housing, because it encouraged black students to separate themselves from the rest of campus, and that's not the type of environment I prefer to be in. I was born and raised in New York City, and I have friends of all different ethnic backgrounds, and that's the way I feel most comfortable. You seem like you'd be happier at Columbia socially, and aside from that, you'd be able to get year-round internships, as well as study in one of the most highly regarded undergrad history departments.</p>
<p>If walking a few minutes to get to class is too many, by all means, go somewhere else. Philly is a walkable city, and you sound like you'd rather travel in cabs rather than using your own legs. I think NY and Columbia are better for you. Even though blocks in NYC are way bigger. But that doesn't matter because you'll be in a cab.</p>
<p>Re mixed race - Penn has a club called Check One for multiracial students that you should look up. I think they maintain their website pretty well.</p>
<p>Ivy League campuses are notoriously known for being small. It's honestly not that big of a deal. I live in the Quad and I frequently go to 40th street for dining, supermarket and the movie theater.</p>
<p>To Wharton Alum, I think the blocks may be larger in NYC in general, but Im just comparing the walk from the highrises to the quad to the easily accessible areas at columbia. Now about diversity, that's the thing I dont want to do. I dont want to join a club for diversity to fit in. A college with true diversity should be integrated no matter if you join check one or not. And really, cabs are way to expensive I would walk. he he =) And chack that, Yale, Harvard, and Cornell have huge campuses...yeah compared to public schools like (put state name here) university the are "small" but they can be easy to get lost in.</p>
<p>...drew?.....</p>
<p>This slavish devotion to "diversity" is absurd. Some people want to hang out with other groups (myself included). Others--most often the minorities themselves--don't.</p>
<p>You will run into both groups at Penn and Columbia and no institution can force people to really do one or the other.</p>
<p>"A college with true diversity should be integrated no matter if you join check one or not."</p>
<p>I didn't say you had to join check one to experience diversity. Check One is there for students from multiracial backgrounds to talk about their experiences and discuss interracial dynamics. In many cases, multiracial students have grown up in places where they did not discuss their heritage. Many students only begin exploring these issues in college, and this group is there to help facilitate.</p>
<p>You don't have to join any group at Penn to experience its diversity. I was just pointing out one group that serves as a resource for a particular group of students. That's normal at all institutions.</p>