Penn vs Princeton: Constructive Advice is Greatly Appreciated

Colleges and Universities A-Z Princeton University
1

<p>I have gotten accepted into both University of Pennsylvania and Princeton but I am unsure about what decision to make. My thoughts are a bit scrambled so i will just jot them down.
I know this is long - but help is greatly appreciated </p>

<p>The academic environment.
As of right now I have a focus in engineering but that might change. Which school would prepare me for a engineering profession? Which school would allow for the easiest transition to another career goal? And how are the freshman seminars?</p>

<p>I also want to know about the academic support available at both schools? I'm quite certain I am not stupid But I am aware that I will be attended school with some of the nation's brightest. I want to know that if i were to start falling behind i would be able to talk to the professors (again rumors that UPenn professors are hard to get a hold of) or seek help from advisors. </p>

<p>The social environment.
I understand that both UPenn and Princeton are competitive Ivy Leagues but which if any has a more relaxed environment. (I have heard that UPenn students are always stressed) I want to go to a school where people are not stressing but enjoying the learning process. Does either of the schools seem to have a lot of Greek life? And are Princeton's Food Clubs really a big deal on campus? and anyone know about the outdoors clubs?</p>

<p>UPenn undergrad is roughly twice as large as Princeton undergrad. What are the positives or negatives of each. I am a bit wary of the size of UPenn's undergrad. Are the classes very large? I would like to hear from some Penn students. Do you still feel as if you are a part of the class or does the size get overwhelming. Is there a community feel with such a large class? If so, how is it achieved?. And at Princeton, is your family your residential college or do you get to branch out?</p>

<p>The physical environment.
UPenn is urban while Princeton is suburban. What are the advantages and the disadvantages of either? Does it ever bother Princeton students that they are not in or next to a larger city? Is buying a bike a good idea for getting around?</p>

<p>Which brings me to the point that my boyfriend of 3.5 years has made the decision to go to UPenn (over Yale, Columbia, Dartmouth & Stanford - crazy right?). I am not worried about "how to keep our relationship alive", I both happy to say that we both love each other enough to make it work. I just want to know if it would be 'easy' to commute from Princeton to UPenn every other week or so. I believe there is a train to Philadelphia and that the cities are about 40 minutes apart. But with college class schedules and extracurriculars (especially at these great Universities) does it look possible- easy, ok, difficult, insane? Does anyone have information about that train?</p>

<p>Again constructive advice is needed and greatly appreciated!
Thank You</p>

2

<p>I have a daughter who graduated from Princeton last year and a child currently at Penn. While I don’t dislike Penn (indeed, I love the campus and the energy the school has), I feel that the academic offerings at Princeton are definitely superior. At Penn, intro courses are somewhat haphazard–some good teachers, some bad teachers–and there doesn’t seem to be a commitment to academic quality. At Princeton, the quality of the teaching and the openness of the faculty was extraordinary (in fact, even taking 5 courses a semester, my daughter was simply not able to take everything she wanted to because there were so many amazing courses and professors). </p>

<p>In terms of engineering, all I can tell you about are the rankings–obviously, Princeton engineering is very strong (second only to Cornell in the Ivy League) and most people believe it is better than Penn engineering. </p>

<p>Social life depends on the person. I think that the Penn social life (at least for the first 2 years) is heavily dependent on frats and sororities, while the Princeton social life revolves around Eating Clubs. Frankly, I prefer the Eating Clubs because half of them are non-selective, so that everyone can join, and also because their parties and events are often open to all (the Greek life at Penn is not as open).</p>

<p>One of the first differences I noticed about the two schools was Outdoor Action, the Princeton freshman experience, versus PennQuest, the Penn freshman outdoor experience. Probably over half of the Princeton freshman went on the trip (over 600 kids) and it was set up so that orientation didn’t begin until after the students returned to campus. By contrast, PennQuest was competitive–only 120 kids were selected–and orientation had already begun when they returned to campus, so they missed the first event. It made an impression on me because Princeton paid attention to details and really wanted Outdoor Action to be a bonding experience shared by as many students as possible. At Penn, I got the impression that it was more of an afterthought.</p>

<p>I don’t know if Princeton kids are bothered by not being in a larger city, but I don’t think it’s an issue for most of them. However, Philadelphia is a lot of fun and there are numerous events, restaurants and sporting events that make it exciting. </p>

<p>I think that you could be happy at Penn and most people are, but I think that Princeton offers an extraordinary academic experience that you share with bright, happy, collaborative and kind peers and I would highly recommend it.</p>

3

<p>Engineering education at Princeton began in 1875. The National Research Council has ranked Princeton as having top PhD programs in Chemical Engineering, Civil Engineering, Electrical Engineering, Mechanical Engineering, and Computer Science. Twenty-eight members of the faculty are members of the National Academy of Engineering. (Penn has 10 members.)</p>

<p>Factors that you may want to consider include:
1.42% of the engineering class of 2015 are women. Nationally women are about 18% of engineering students. The president of Princeton, Shirley Tilghman, a noted scientist, is committed to ensuring that women succeed in math, science, and engineering at Princeton. There is a sufficient number of women engineering majors to have an active Society of Women Engineers chapter. See: [Princeton</a> University SWE](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~swe/]Princeton”>Princeton Society of Women Engineers) You may also be interested in the Women in Science Colloquium where female faculty discuss careers in science, engineering, and math.
2.Princeton is more focused on undergraduate education Penn has 24,599 students; Princeton has 7,592 students.<br>
3.Here are some videos on engineering at Princeton. [Video</a> –<em>Princeton Engineering](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/engineering/video/]Video”>http://www.princeton.edu/engineering/video/) Wondering around the engineering school web site should provide more information for you.
4.The related departments at Princeton in math, physics, chemistry,and biology are also very strong. The strength of the engineering and science departments is shown by the London Times ranking of all universities in science and engineering. See: [Top</a> Universities for Engineering & Technology 2010-2011](<a href=“http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2010-2011/engineering-and-IT.html]Top”>World University Rankings 2010-11 | Times Higher Education (THE)) It is easy to switch majors out of engineering. Liberal Arts candidates do not select a major until spring of their sophomore year. The freshman seminars are small classes of perhaps 15 students. If you pick a topic that you are interested in you will love the seminar. The seminars change each year.
5.The academic environment is fun. There are about one dozen Nobel Prize winners on the faculty. You have the opportunity to learn from the best of the best. I can think of at least one freshman class taught by a Nobel Prize winner.
6.All professors have office hours so that if you want to discuss material covered in class they are available to review the material with you. Most professors enjoy the opportunity to review material with students. One of the advantages of a small university.
7.Most students relax by working out in the gym, intramural sports, hanging with friends, etc. However you relaxed in high school that opportunity is available at Princeton.
8.The “food clubs” are called eating clubs. About two-thirds of the students join a eating club. Perhaps 10% student join a Greek organization. Eating clubs are more important for most students. The eating clubs are coed. Half of the clubs are “sign in” which means if a group of your friends want to join the same sign in club you merely “sign in” to became a member. No Greek style rush. Half of the eating clubs are selective somewhat similar to a frat/sorority rush. All students live in a residential college.
9.Most of the classes are small. A lecture course may have 100+ but the course will meet in small class to discuss the material. Many engineering classes will have 20-25 total students.
10.Princeton students have many communities. The residential college is one community. Engineering classmates are another. Students in activities that you enjoy such as outdoor club is another. Here is a list of student organizations. You should be able to find a community of friends here: [Directory</a> -</em>Office of the Dean of Undergraduate Students - Directory](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/odus/activities/organizations/directory/]Directory”>http://www.princeton.edu/odus/activities/organizations/directory/) Before freshman week you can participate in a camping trip. Read about the trip here: [Outdoor</a> Action Frosh Trip Program](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/~oa/ft/index.shtml]Outdoor”>Frosh Trip | Outdoor Action)
11.The Princeton area is a safe calm oasis. You can walk anywhere in safety. Review this calendar of events. There is so many activities on campus that you do not care about the size of the city. See: [Princeton</a> University – Public Events Calendar](<a href=“http://www.princeton.edu/events/]Princeton”>Events | Princeton University) The train to NYC or Philly is on the edge of the campus. NYC is a little over an hour. The trip to Philly by train is 90+ minutes. You can save considerable time going to Philly with a car.</p>

4

<p>20 years ago this wouldn’t even have been a question. How far we have come! <em>shedding red and blue tears</em></p>

<p>Anyway I went to Penn and loved it. My brother went to Princeton and…didn’t love it. Totally anecdotal and overall worthless data point, but i thought I’d throw it in anyway :)</p>

<p>Also, give your bf a high-five from me. He has excellent taste in school decisions!</p>

5

<p>

</p>

<p>Lets take a look at where Princeton, Penn and Cornell Engineering are in terms of the recent NRC Rankings for departmental Engineering:</p>

<p>CHEMICAL ENGINEERING
1—Cal Tech
2—MIT
3—Berkeley
4—UC Santa Barbara
5—UT Austin
6—Princeton
7—U. of Minnesota
8—Stanford
9—U. of Michigan
10—U. of Wisconsin</p>

<p>CIVIL ENGINEERING
1—Berkeley
2—UT Austin
3—MIT
4—Princeton
5—Yale
6—Stanford
7—U. of Illinois Urbana
8—Georgia Tech
9—Purdue
10–Northwestern</p>

<p>COMPUTER SCIENCE
1—Stanford
2—Princeton
3—MIT
4—Berkeley
5—Carnegie Mellon
6—Cornell
7—Harvard
8—UC Santa Barbara
9—Penn
10–UCLA</p>

<p>ELECTRICAL ENGINEERING
1—Stanford
2—Princeton
3—Harvard
4—UC Santa Barbara
5—U. of Illinois Urbana
6—Cal Tech
7—Georgia Tech
8—UCLA
9—U. of Michigan
10–MIT</p>

<p>MECHANICAL ENGINEERING
1—MIT
2—Stanford
3—Berkeley
4—U. of Michigan
5—Brown
6—Northwestern
7—UC Santa Barbara
8—Georgia Tech
9—Princeton
10–U. of Maryland</p>

<p>BIOENGINEERING*
1 — UCSD
2 — Caltech
3 — UC Berkeley
4 — UC SF
5 — MIT
6 — Univ. of Wash
7 — Duke
8 — Boston Univ.
9 — Michigan
10 – Yale</p>

<p>*Princeton’s Bioengineering is offered through its Department of Chemical and Biological Engineering which is ranked 6th</p>

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<p><a href=“http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings[/url]”>http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-engineering-schools/eng-rankings&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Biomedical Engineering</p>

<p>#1 Johns Hopkins University (Whiting)
Baltimore, MD
#2 Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA
#2 University of California–San Diego (Jacobs)
La Jolla, CA
#4 Duke University (Pratt)
Durham, NC
#5 University of Washington
Seattle, WA
#6 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Cambridge, MA
#6 University of Pennsylvania
Philadelphia, PA
#8 Boston University
Boston, MA<br>
#8 Rice University (Brown)
Houston, TX
#8 Stanford University
Stanford, CA</p>

<p>Chemical Engineering</p>

<p>#1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Cambridge, MA
Berkeley, CA
#3 California Institute of Technology
Pasadena, CA
#3 University of Minnesota–Twin Cities
Minneapolis, MN<br>
#5 Stanford University
Stanford, CA
** #6 Princeton University
Princeton, NJ** </p>

<h1>6 University of Texas–Austin (Cockrell)</h1>

<p>Austin, TX
#6 University of Wisconsin–Madison
Madison, WI<br>
#9 University of California–Santa Barbara
Santa Barbara, CA
#10 University of Delaware
Newark, DE</p>

<p>Civil Engineering</p>

<h1>1 University of California–Berkeley</h1>

<p>Berkeley, CA
#2 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
Urbana, IL
#3 Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA
#3 Purdue University–West Lafayette
West Lafayette, IN
#3 Stanford University
Stanford, CA
#3 University of Texas–Austin (Cockrell)
Austin, TX
#7 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Cambridge, MA<br>
#8 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor, MI<br>
#9 Virginia Tech
Blacksburg, VA
#10 Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA
#10 Cornell University
Ithaca, NY</p>

<p>Computer Engineering</p>

<h1>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology</h1>

<p>Cambridge, MA
#1 Stanford University
Stanford, CA
#1 University of California–Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
#4 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
Urbana, IL
#5 Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA
#6 Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA
#7 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor, MI
#8 California Institute of Technology
Pasadena, CA
#8 Cornell University
Ithaca, NY
** #10 Princeton University
Princeton, NJ**
#10 University of Texas–Austin (Cockrell)
Austin, TX</p>

<p>Electrical</p>

<p>#1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Cambridge, MA
#2 Stanford University
Stanford, CA
#2 University of California–Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
#4 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
Urbana, IL
#5 California Institute of Technology
Pasadena, CA
#6 Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA
#7 Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA
#7 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor, MI<br>
#9 Cornell University
Ithaca, NY
#9 University of Texas–Austin (Cockrell)
Austin, TX</p>

<p>Materials Science</p>

<h1>1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology</h1>

<p>Cambridge, MA
#2 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
Urbana, IL
#3 Northwestern University (McCormick)
Evanston, IL
#4 University of California–Santa Barbara
Santa Barbara, CA
#5 Stanford University
Stanford, CA
#5 University of California–Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
#7 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor, MI<br>
#8 Cornell University
Ithaca, NY<br>
#8 Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA
#8 Pennsylvania State University–University Park
University Park, PA
#8 University of Florida
Gainesville, FL </p>

<p>Mechanical Engineering</p>

<p>#1 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Cambridge, MA
#2 Stanford University
Stanford, CA
#2 University of California–Berkeley
Berkeley, CA
#4 California Institute of Technology
#5 University of Michigan–Ann Arbor
Ann Arbor, MI
#6 Georgia Institute of Technology
Atlanta, GA<br>
#6 University of Illinois–Urbana-Champaign
Urbana, IL
#8 Cornell University
Ithaca, NY
#9 Purdue University–West Lafayette
West Lafayette, IN
** #10 Princeton University
Princeton, NJ**</p>

7

<p>cmburns, thanks for the info on USNWR graduate school departmental rankings…Somehow you seem that have forgotten this one:</p>

<p>USNWR Aerospace Engineering Rankings (Graduate)</p>

<p>1 – Caltech
1 – MIT
3 – Stanford
4 – Georgia Tech
5 – Michigan
6 – Purdue
7 – Princeton
7 – Illinois
9 – Univ. Maryland CP
10 - Texas A&M
10 - UT Austin</p>

8

<p>@kidtikid I was surprised by PtonAlumnus’ comment on it taking 90 minutes between Princeton and Penn, though maybe that is true – it always seemed faster. I know when my husband (then boyfirend) and I were at Wharton, we would often go to NYC on the weekend for cultural events. As we had more time than money, we would take SEPTA to Trenton and then switch to NJ Transit which always stopped in Princeton. While I am a Californian (and you know how WE LOVE our cars) the train is great because you can use that time to read or study. Penn is a lot of fun, but if BF is there you will still be able to experience that side of it, while the Princeton experience will be unique.</p>