<p>UPenn is a trade school.</p>
<p>Vandy is a charm school.</p>
<p>I’ve heard from some Vandy students (including a friend who transferred to Penn from Vandy) that it lacks diversity. Penn has diversity, slightly self segregated, but is pretty darn diverse none the less.</p>
<p>Penn is grossly overrated. It is not in the same league of Stanford, MIT, UChicago, CalTecth, or Columbia.</p>
<p>Top 500 World Universities (1-100) </p>
<p>[url=<a href=“http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_A(EN).htm]ARWU2008[/url”>http://www.arwu.org/rank2008/ARWU2008_A(EN).htm]ARWU2008[/url</a>]</p>
<ul>
<li>Institutions within the same rank range are listed alphabetically.
World Rank Institution* Region Regional Rank Country National Rank Score on Alumni Score on Award Score on HiCi Score on N&S Score on PUB Score on PCP Total
Score
1 Harvard Univ Americas 1 USA 1 100 100 100 100 100 74.1 100 </li>
</ul>
<p>2 Stanford Univ Americas 2 USA 2 40 78.7 86.6 68.9 71.6 66.9 73.7 </p>
<p>3 Univ California - Berkeley Americas 3 USA 3 69 77.1 68.8 70.6 70 53 71.4 </p>
<p>4 Univ Cambridge Europe 1 UK 1 90.3 91.5 53.6 56 64.1 65 70.4 </p>
<p>5 Massachusetts Inst Tech (MIT) Americas 4 USA 4 71 80.6 65.6 68.7 61.6 53.9 69.6 </p>
<p>6 California Inst Tech Americas 5 USA 5 52.8 69.1 57.4 66.1 49.7 100 65.4 </p>
<p>7 Columbia Univ Americas 6 USA 6 72.4 65.7 56.5 52.3 70.5 46.6 62.5 </p>
<p>8 Princeton Univ Americas 7 USA 7 59.3 80.4 61.9 40.5 44.8 59.3 58.9 </p>
<p>9 Univ Chicago Americas 8 USA 8 67.4 81.9 50.5 39.5 51.9 41.3 57.1 </p>
<p>10 Univ Oxford Europe 2 UK 2 59 57.9 48.4 52 66 45.7 56.8 </p>
<p>11 Yale Univ Americas 9 USA 9 48.5 43.6 57 55.7 62.4 48.7 54.9 </p>
<p>12 Cornell Univ Americas 10 USA 10 41.5 51.3 54.1 52.3 64.7 40.4 54.1 </p>
<p>13 Univ California - Los Angeles Americas 11 USA 11 24.4 42.8 57.4 48.9 75.7 36 52.4 </p>
<p>14 Univ California - San Diego Americas 12 USA 12 15.8 34 59.7 53 66.7 47.4 50.3 </p>
<p>15 Univ Pennsylvania Americas 13 USA 13 31.7 34.4 58.3 41.3 69 39.2 49.0</p>
<p>Why does every question about Penn have to draw the “Penn bashers”? unhappyhighschooler posing as happymedstudent, please give it a rest. You know absolutely nothing about these two schools, so please leave the topic to those who might have something intelligent to contribute.</p>
<p>Vanderbilt isn’t a charm school, because that are must be perfected for you to gain admission. 
It does not scream diversity and does have a “beautiful people” vibe, which does not necessarily detract from the experience in any way. Penn has a grittier, northeast vibe.</p>
<p>“unhappyhighschooler”</p>
<p>Aren’t you a little too “mature” to be calling people names?</p>
<p>No I’m not…</p>
<p>No kidding. </p>
<p>If and when I am fifty or sixty and still ■■■■■■■■ this site and attacking so-called “high school students,” just end me please.</p>
<p>How is Penn not in the same league as Columbia and UChicago? In most fields Penn’s rank is right around those two schools. I’d say the three of those are pretty similar from a grad school perspective. The only real differences at the undergrad level are personalities or the schools, not academics.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Penn is not very respected in the academic community (hence, why it is ranked so low in graduate school rankings - it is probably even slightly overranked by Shanghai-Jiaotong). The peer assessment ratings are a clear indication of such (IMO, they’re based more off of the image of the grad school than the undergrad) and personally, as a student at a top PhD-producing school, I have never heard anyone claim that they were considering Penn. NRC rankings also serve as evidence on this front.</p>
<p>In terms of graduate school only, it’s almost clearly Chicago >= Columbia > Penn.</p>
<p>^ “Penn is not very respected in the academic community”?</p>
<p>My God, the level of haughtiness on this site makes me sick.</p>
<p>“Academic community” =/= your little elitist snob playpen. You are in dire need of a reality check, as are many people on this site.</p>
<p>^I don’t know. According to NRC Penn is top 10 in 15 departments, between 10 and 15 in 6 more departments, and between 15 and 25 in 11 more departments. According to US News, Penn is top 25 in at least 11 academic departments, not including the top 3 business school (they offer PhDs too), top 5 med school, and top 10 law school. US News undergrad PA puts it at 4.5, right bellow Columbia and Chicago, right above Duke and Michigan, tied with Cornell and Hopkins.</p>
<p>Maybe your friends aren’t considering PhDs in economics, psych, music, french, linguistics, history, or enlgish, all of which are top 10 in NRC.</p>
<p>
</p>
<p>Post of the Day.</p>
<p>I’m noticing a strong negative r-square between Penn-hating and intelligence ;)</p>
<p>
I would not want to work for someone who thinks Penn is a public university.</p>
<p>phuriku,</p>
<p>your posts remind me of the MBA applicants/posters on the Businessweek website, who routinely trash the Chicago GSB (Booth) as second-tier to extol the virtues of the Wharton MBA program- in reality- Wharton and Booth conduct comparable research and offer their graduates similar opportunities- they are peer institutions- the same can be said for the two universities as a whole… for an informed audience (neither UPenn nor UChicago are household names for the common person), both institutions are held in high regard. Academics may favor UofC grads but Wall Street recruiters heavily favor Penn grads- each is a narrow subset of the opportunities a student may want to pursue. </p>
<p>…and I am not affiliated with either school- though I was offered admission by Penn and did not apply to Chicago (grad studies in engineering).</p>
<p>Phuriku and others - I’m a proud U of C grad (went to Chicago for college), and I got a grad degree from Penn, amd I have to agree with cmburns and others here. By most respects - when looking at the comprehensive idea of what an American University is - Penn and Chicago are peer schools. </p>
<p>In some areas, Chicago edges out Penn, and in other areas, Penn edges Chicago. As I’ve said continually in other posts, a university is about more than the academics it offers. In terms of scholarship and strength in traditional subject areas (Econ, english, history, physics, poli sci, etc.), Chicago probably beats out Penn and rivals HYPS. At the same time, in terms of production of professionals, strength of alum network, and other areas of more practical orientation, Penn edges out Chicago. </p>
<p>Remember, when looking at peer schools, for better or worse, academics is just ONE PART of the equation. American universities do a lot more nowadays than just churn out scholarship.</p>
<p>That’s not to say one is bad in any given area - Chicago still does a heck of a job creating professionals, and Penn is outstanding in a range of academic subjects. </p>
<p>At the end of the day, these are basically peer schools with varying strengths. If an applicant had more of an interest in scholarship or pursuing academia, then Chicago is probably a better bet. If the applicant is more pre-professional or wanted a more applied, practical education (with the chance to take class in accounting, communications, etc.), then Penn is the better bet.</p>
<p>One other note - these two univs are coming from similar pasts - mixing storied traditions with a troubled financial status to emerge now as rising players in the college marketplace. In many ways, they’re coming from different angles and meeting at the middle: Penn had a degree of social status and respect in the professional realm from Wharton, and its academic disciplines are rising in recognition; Chicago always had a strong tradition in academics, and its social catchet and commitment to more practicality (read: pre-professionalism) is now rising given its newfound strategy to make gains in selectivity.</p>
<p>I enjoyed my time at Chicago, but the Chicago boosters need to calm down a bit.</p>
<p>How did the Penn/Vanderbilt thread turn into Penn/Chicago?</p>
<p>“The last statment (weight with employers) is only true in regional and industrial contexts. In the South, the Vandy name will carry more weight (outside the finance industry). Most people down here think Penn is a public university and have no idea it’s a member of the Ivy League. Vandy, on the other hand, they know.”</p>
<p>Both schools are regional:</p>
<p>Outside the NE, most people couldn’t tell you the difference between Penn and Penn State.</p>
<p>Outside the South, most people couldn’t tell you the difference between Vanderbilt and Villanova.</p>
<p>^^^It really is irrelevant what “most people” know about highly selective private universities. I have a neighbor who asked me “what state is MIT in?”</p>
<p>I currently live in the midwest. While “most people” don’t know much about any private universities, those in the academic and professional worlds know the difference between Penn and Penn State and Vanderbilt and Villanova. That was also true when I lived in New England.</p>
<p>“It really is irrelevant what “most people” know about highly selective private universities.”</p>
<p>So only the “important” or “right” people’s opinions matter? Sounds kind of elitist, if you ask me.</p>
<p>Besides the “relevancy” of what most people know isn’t at issue. I am merely making a correct observation, which is that except for HYPSM, private universities have mostly regional reputations. Especially Vandy, a local backwater not too long ago and still one, in some respects.</p>
<p>And by “most people,” I include many highly educated people. For example, I attended an HYP feeder school and some of the kids there (including me) never heard of Vanderbilt until they picked up an USNews, let alone think it’s prestigious. And this is a school where even a niche university like Caltech is fairly well known.</p>
<p>“I have a neighbor who asked me “what state is MIT in?””</p>
<p>Are you seriously suggesting a comparison between the reputations of MIT vs. Vanderbilt? The MIT name is a part of popular culture; most people think of it as a breeding ground for geniuses. (Also, just because your neighbor doesn’t know where MIT is located doesn’t mean s/he has never heard of it or know it’s prestigious.) Most people draw a complete blank when you ask them about Vanderbilt; it’s not known for anything.</p>