<p>WashU estimates these costs at a little over $17k per year. That’s almost $70k over the four years. Almost $1k per year is in required fees, including a health insurance fee that WashU says is mandatory even if the student has other health insurance. The rest could vary depending on how much he actually spends on discretionary items, but the estimates are taken straight from WashU’s documents.</p>
<p>The rest of the difference comes from scholarships that he can keep if he goes to 'Bama, but wouldn’t get if he goes to WashU.</p>
<p>I agree with several others that you should eliminate Penn. It’s a big honor to be accepted, but even if money were not an issue (which it is), I’m not sure it offers much of an advantage over WUSTL in a technical field.</p>
<p>That said, the big differences probably won’t be in the technical education. As your son moves up the career ladder in computer engineering or a related field, technical knowledge will be necessary but not sufficient to advance past an early plateau. Engineering school graduates sometimes start out fast on the salary front, but then hit a ceiling. Advancing to leadership roles typically requires breadth, judgment, good teaming and communication skills. So you should examine how well Alabama’s honors program can compete with WUSTL in developing those “soft” skills. </p>
<p>I’d say WUSTL’s “large emphasis on biology/biomedical/pre-med” should not be an issue. Look up the number of students graduating in each department. I’d be surprised if more than about 15-20% of WUSTL students are life science majors.</p>
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<p>Definitely not if they are close in the rankings (as Penn and WUSTL are). Nor, necessarily, if they are fairly far apart, but in that case you at least ought to wonder whether the differences are relevant to you. If nothing else, a much higher ranking usually means it’s a more selective school. That usually translates to more exposure to talented, serious students. Is that not an advantage? The question of “standing out” has been raised. Look at it another way. Look at it as an opportunity to collaborate with other talented students. In Information Technology or engineering, achievements tend to be team achievements. Important tasks usually are too big or complex for one person. Working with others - not as a subordinate but not as a “hero” either - is a valuable skill that needs to be cultivated. Being the stand-out guy all the time is not necessarily the best preparation for leadership, especially if he wants to work for a major stand-out firm. If he’s used to being the best student it may be hard the first few times he offers up a solution only to have it picked apart by other sharp kids or a critical professor. That, however, is an important part of the learning process.</p>
<p>I will add that the full-ride scholarship is not the main reason he’s interested in Alabama. It’s the Fellows program, Computer-Based Honors, and the amazing opportunities available through these programs.</p>
<p>If he’d been accepted into these honors programs without the big scholarship, he would still be considering Alabama. If he’d gotten the money but NOT the honors programs, Alabama would be off the list.</p>
<p>In fact, he has a full-ride offer from another state flagship as well, and he isn’t even considering that one.</p>
<p>your son is truly in the “choose your own adventure” category…he will make the right decison for himself—my children longed to exit a backwater town and needed the social challenges offered at national footprint colleges in order for them to mature enough to make informed vocational decisions. Your son shows sign of early vocational clarity.</p>
<p>My most “hometown” kid thanks me every day for taking him to visit colleges that he was rather vague about at first and for sending him to Hopkins two summers. He was just one of those people who seldom saw the bigger picture of life on his own speed despite his ability to test well…and he was not someone who could have shown up at age 18 at a diverse college ready for bear unless he had been out of the nest in high school a couple of times. He is a super nice person, just not edgy or shrewd by nature. And he is happier than he has ever been in his life, more fulfilled and more able to be himself as an independent person at Vandy now. </p>
<p>Parents generally know what their children’s readiness is for all things. Your son may turn Alabama into a very cool experience based on his own shrewdness and interpersonal qualities.</p>
<p>If your son has been in Alabama all his life, I’d recommend that he go to Wash U. College is also about living and learning cultural diversity, challenging your comfort zone and I think Wash U offers more besides academics.</p>
<p>We don’t live in Alabama. All three of the schools we’re discussing would be out-of-state for us. WashU and 'Bama are about equally distant, but in different directions.</p>
<p>I do think WashU has a more geographically diverse student body. Less than 10% of its students come from Missouri. </p>
<p>Alabama has been increasing its out-of-state enrollment, and during my son’s visit he met people from all over - California, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Texas, Florida, New York, Illinois, North Carolina. The top honors programs may be fairly geographically diverse. Still, about 60% of the total student body is in-state.</p>
<p>A lot of students at WashU live off campus junior and senior year, which is supposed to be much cheaper then R&B (I guess we’ll find next year to what degree this is true…)</p>
<p>The OP has a career goal, and a well thought out plan for achieving that goal. It starts with a CS major, followed by graduate/business school. I would be inclined to start by ranking the schools based on these goals.</p>
<p>The University of Pennsylvania has a long and impressive history as a center in computer science. It is where the first large scale computer (Eniac) was built. The university has impressive graduate programs in both CS and EE. It is widely recognized in these fields, receiving continued grants from major technology companies. The Wharton school is a renowned business school. So for someone with OP’s goals it is hard to ignore such centers of excellence in both of his career goals. That the University of Pennsylvania has other like minded students and alumni, often well placed in industry, is all the more reason to select it.</p>
<p>If the OP were less sure of his career goals, and was looking to find his niche during the first 2-3 years at university, then the choice of which school is superior academically is far less clear. The discussion from many of the responders regarding Washington University and University of Alabama would resonate. But since that’s not the case (the OP has clear goals) it is hard to turn down the exceptional opportunity he has at the University of Pennsylvania, all the more so because the OP expects to eventually enter a high paying field and loans are less of a problem than usual.</p>
<p>As a Wharton alum, I would say that he should at least take Wharton out of the equation. Yes, he will be allowed to take undergrad courses at Wharton but SEAS is usually a pretty full load and unless he’s doing the Management & Tech program or some other dual program with Wharton, in reality, he’s really only going to end up taking a few (less than 3, I’d guess) classes at Wharton in his entire time at Penn. I’m not sure that it’s enough of a reason to even consider it, as I’m sure he could pick up a basic corporate finance and accounting course at another school or if he was really inclined, he may be able to do a summer session at Penn one summer just to take a few business classes – I believe that’s allowed though I’m not positive.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t recommend more than 40k total in loans, even for an engineer. If Penn requires too much debt (20-60k is a big range), then it should NOT be considered–regardless, but especially when you have such excellent alternative options on the table.</p>
<p>And I agree, albeit from an outsider perspective, that Wharton should have no bearing on any decision regarding Penn in the OP’s case.</p>
<p>Definitely A or B. (Alabama or WUSTL). You may want to read the excellent post today by psch_ about attending a third tier school and going to a top grad school.</p>
<p>Even before reading the post by psych_, my son thought that going to a less selective school should make it EASIER to get into a top graduate program.</p>
<p>The logic: You’ll get a better GPA because you aren’t being graded against so many students who are smarter than you are. You’ll get better recommendations because more of your professors will be able to say, “This is the most outstanding student I have encountered in my career.” You’ll get more research projects, awards, and other opportunities, because you won’t be competing against so many other high-flyers to get them. You’ll have more personal attention from professors because you’ll truly stand out in the crowd.</p>
<p>Yet as Gardna points out on psych_'s thread, these forums are full of people who believe they won’t get into a decent grad school unless they go to the most selective undergrad school on their list.</p>
<p>IMO, your S shouldn’t worry so much about grad school–worry about research opportunities, yes, because he wants to do research in college. And grad school will follow naturally from what he pursues as an undergraduate.</p>
<p>Bama will let him leave with $$ in the bank; WashU is generally agreed to be a higher-caliber student body. So let those two factors cancel each other: which school does he prefer wrt social life, climate, et al?</p>
<p>OP – I think his thinking is right about Alabama. Chances are, he will stand out there bc he will be competing with fewer who are coming from the very top of their HS classes; at WashU and Penn, he will probably have to strive a lot harder to stand out and he may not stand out (which wouldn’t be the end of the world – even students there in the middle of the pack do well job-wise). At this point, he should consider what he needs to thrive. Is he someone who does really well being the big fish in a small pond? Or is he someone who does better when he’s doing everything he can to compete with people who are a few steps ahead of him? One isn’t better than the other, but I knew students – esp. from smaller towns/schools – for whom Penn was miserable because they went from being the very top in their HS and in their towns when it came to academics, ECs, leadership etc. to being just average. I also knew Penn students who loved the constant push from students with higher grades etc. bc they felt it raised their game to work with such people.</p>
<p>Keep in mind that if your S goes to engineering grad school (MS/PhD), he is likely to be fully funded (engineering tends to bring in a lot of grant money) throughout. With that in mind, I’d actually say WUSTL, though I think your S would likely do very well at Bama, and it’s nice to graduate with money in the bank! Does he have a preference between the two with regards to social climate “fit”?</p>
<p>One of the biggest advantages of attending a top school for a bright student is to be surrounded by intellectual peers, who motivate, inspire and support each other on this journey.</p>
<p>Only you can make the economic decision that is right for your family, but I think it is a big mistake for a strong student to choose an “easy” school just so s/he will “stand out” more…</p>
<p>And yes, PhD programs that are worth enrolling in are fully funded. Masters may or may not be funded, but will often be paid for by the employer (and CS/engineering majors usually do not need any advanced degree to find a job after college)</p>
<p>Although not engineering majors, I have two children who followed the different paths you mention. Older D went to StateU Honors Program. Graduated with a 4.0, Phi Beta Kappa, top graduate in her major, named one of only ten Chancellors Scholars out of 3,700+ graduating seniors, etc. She loved her college experience and was very happy with the choice she made. She was accepted to every graduate school she applied to, all with nice stipends and tuition, health insurance, and travel expenses paid. </p>
<p>Younger D is a junior at WashU. She is a double major in an area of science and a foreign language (also premed). Her ACT/SAT were in the 99%tile (higher than her sisters), she was the only NMF in her h.s. class, etc. She has been on the Deans List every semester, but has had to WORK to get herself there. She did not want a repeat of high school in college and wanted to be challenged to the max, which is what she has experienced! She thanks us often for allowing her to go to WashU and not insisting she take the free rides she was offered (she gets a small WashU merit and the RC Byrd Scholarship, so we are paying nearly full freight). Her peers are not just national, but international and she says that everyone is smart and many blow her away with their out of the box thinking. They are people the likes of she had never encountered before college. She has friends from all over the world and says she cant see herself at any other school. </p>
<p>When it came time for both of our kids to chose their college, we just stood back and let them make the decision. From your posts, it seems a little like your son is leaning toward Alabama. If that is his choice, I would say honor it. Someone else made the big fish/small pond vs small fish/big pond analogy it is a very personal choice and neither is wrong.</p>
<p>My son got his financial aid offer from Penn. It looks like it would cost about $50k more than WashU over the four years. To go there, he’d need to earn about $5k/year through work-study and summer jobs, and then borrow a total of about $30k over the four years.</p>