Pennsylvania parents share your strategies

Parents Forum
81

I think you just have to tell your student that he needs to BE motivated or he’ll be at another school when he loses the merit scholarship. My daughter knew she needed a 3.0 to keep two of her scholarships. It was never in question but she knew that if that scholarship was pulled, she’d be pulled too.

I think it is wise to know the risks, but we thought it was worth it to take the chance to have her go to the school she wanted to. Of course, if she’d been passing on another school with a scholarship that didn’t have a gpa requirement, that would have been taken into consideration too.

82

“The reasons Pit and Penn State are more expensive is because that they are good schools”

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-expensive-public-universities-2014-7

Pitt and Penn State aren’t the two most expensive in-state schools in the country because they’re the two best state schools in the country.

Michigan, Virginia, California…

83

The interesting history of Pitt is that it was failing in the 1960’s. They could barely keep their doors open and requested state aid to stay open. Now they are the most expensive quasi public university.

84

Pitt does give some merit to high stats students, and started a new Pell match program, and meeting full need for Valedictorians and Salutatorians from Pittsburgh public schools who qualify for Pell Grant.

And the state support they receive only partially covers the $10,000 tuition discount in-state students get.

85

A little off topic here but a good read…
What if Pitt were to go private? Some ponder the unthinkable as dwindling state aid becomes less certain…
https://www.post-gazette.com/news/education/2018/02/23/University-of-Pittsburgh-privatization-budget-state-colleges-higher-education-Pennsylvania-legislature/stories/201802220165

86

Economic Diversity - The average household income of a PSU student in much greater than a PASSHE student.

“The median family income of a student from Penn State is $101,800, and 46% come from the top 20 percent. About 1.8% of students at Penn State came from a poor family but became a rich adult.”
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/projects/college-mobility/pennsylvania-state-university

"As a group, the 14 schools that make up Pennsylvania’s State System of Higher Education (hereafter the State System) are among Pennsylvania’s great working-class colleges. Forty-one percent of State System students from 1999 to 2004 (far enough back that we can analyze how these students fare economically as adults in their thirties) came from families with incomes (pre-tax income at the household level) in the bottom 60% of households, those earning less than $73,500 a year (in 2015 dollars). By comparison, just 18% of the students from Pennsylvania’s 10 most elite private colleges during this period came from bottom 60% families. "
https://www.pennbpc.org/pennsylvanias-great-working-class-colleges

Helps to explain the difference in debt. Wealthier families obviously have more money to spend on higher education if they so choose. Families without the higher household income…do not have the same choice.

So again, it comes down to what you can afford and how much debt are you willing to take on. PA is difficult.

87

^Yes, that is backed up by the fact that Penn State and many PA privates have only around 10% Pell eligible students, and most PASSHE schools (except WCU) have from 30% to over 40% Pell eligible students.

The over $20,000 price tag of PASSHE schools is still not affordable for these students, unless they can commute, as Pell, PHEAA grant and student loan only covers about $15,000.

88

To the OP, two of my students changed their minds on majors, one her senior year, the other after 1 year of college. So good to have an affordable school as well as one w/ multiple majors.

Oldest commuted to a Penn State satellite campus. Utter failure, hated it w/ a passion, too many commuters, grade 13. And even w/ commuting, still rather expensive. She ended up in 2 yr PTA program in a school where she could commute, just barely.

DS, high stats, 33 ACT, 3.95 GPA, 5th in class of 400. He had Temple and UAlabama, Tuscaloosa. This was 2015, the infamous year Temple got into trouble w/ the guaranteed scholarships. DH and I toured Temple, DS broke his foot the day before, so didn’t attend. He refused to even consider it. He is at Bama. With Pell Grants, fed student loans, and engineering scholarships, it was truly affordable and he has had an incredible experience there, with friends from all over the country.

Youngest did not want to commute and I really wanted her to have a better and ultimately cheaper option than her sister. Though she isn’t an exceptional student, she was upper level for the PASSHE schools. She is at West Chester University with a full tuition scholarship. But the fees are rather high there and the dorms are also rather expensive, so she is in a traditional dorm which saves $4000 a year, which is an incredible savings. She will also have full federal student loans, and has received the Pell & PHEAA grants.

I know the PASSHE schools don’t get a lot of love, but she is doing very well there, loves the town, and is taking CS, not a school known for it, but I expect her to do well. Her roommate is from State College and didn’t want to commute to Penn State/wasn’t accepted there. DD is definitely on track to graduate in 4 years.

89

PASSHE system announces new tuition policy
https://wcuquad.com/6014179/news/passhe-system-announces-new-tuition-policy/

“It is important to acknowledge that the Commonwealth has restored only $62.2 million of the $90.6 million cut in 2011. That $28 million difference does not even account for inflation.”

College should not be a “debt” sentence
https://wcuquad.com/6013963/op-ed/college-should-not-be-a-debt-sentence/

FINANCIAL AID DISTRIBUTION RISES, YET STUDENTS STILL FACE ECONOMIC PITFALLS
http://thestroudcourier.com/2019/04/11/financial-aid-distribution-rises-yet-students-still-face-economic-pitfalls/

90

Regarding wealth of families vs schools, most often when student debt is considered they only consider those who have debt. They do not work in those who graduate with no debt. (No zeroes averaged in.) I suspect it’s the same with those lists since they mention the percent of students with debt. It’s those students used for the data. Essentially, ‘Of students who have debt, this is the average they have at graduation.’

Penn St, Pitt, and Temple get more high income students (esp Penn St) because they are stingy with aid and poor families simply can’t afford it. Loans aren’t just “given.” One has to qualify for them. Where I work kids and parents are really wary of high debt. We’re not in a wealthy area. This is why I know more about costs students have. It comes up in their request for advice. Is School A better for X cost or is School B better for Y cost?

PASSHE schools aren’t cheap - not compared to other states - but they are less expensive allowing more people to possibly qualify for the needed loans to cover cost.

91

@Longhaul - Just wanted to update/clarify. My son still insists his friend was offered tuition, room and board at Temple for next Fall, plus an additional $3,000 “educational enhancement” stipend. This kid would be 1530+ SAT score. Not sure of his class rank, but he’s probably top 5%. I suppose it’s possible he’s exaggerating, though.

92

@Trixy34 , thanks for the update. It is also possible Temple is stealthy giving scholarships to those who apply as their safety school. So, limiting the courting to those who show them love first.

93

Temple was offering some very generous packages with all sorts of extras for high numbered students. So iOS certainly possible it’s true. Those awards were automatic a few years ago but now one has to Be selected.

94

Florida State is definitely worth a look, particularly with the First Year Abroad program for OOS students that may not qualify for a lot of merit aid.

https://international.fsu.edu/fya.aspx

FYA costs ~$42K for 3 semesters abroad at one of their satellite campuses (London, Florence, Valencia, or Panama City) including housing. That’s close to $6K less than 3 semesters in Tallahassee for an OOS student. An OOS student can then qualify for in-state tuition (currently $6,500 per year) the remainder their UG time at FSU by maintaining a 3.0 or higher GPA while on FYA.

In-state COA for FSU is listed at ~$18.3K per year.

95

In case anyone is interested, IUP wrote the following about their 2019 commencement ceremonies.

https://www.iup.edu/news-item.aspx?id=274389

96

IUP is a school I hear many negative things about, especially on the partying front. Also a low graduation rate compared to other PA schools

97

My SIL went to IUP years ago. Didn’t have a great experience there. I don’t know many others who have gone there, in general.

What I hear and read profusely about IUP are about their support services for LD students and their Honors College. Both extremes. I know a number of very happy parents whose kids graduated there and are in living wage jobs after all sorts of challenges. I know these families personally, and can only come up with a handful of options with results I know and none as inexpensively as IUP. I’ve also seen very good results and happy families from their Honors College which is indeed a world apart from their school in general. I lived not far from this school, and don’t know a single student other than SIL( and that was many years ago) who has gone to the school just as regular student.

98

I posted this to show that apparently over 50% of bachelor’s degree students have a good GPA. So quite a few students seem to be able to graduate on time and do well there.

I know several IUP students who got their BS and MS in speech pathology in 5 years (3+2) and some that did pre-health in 3 years and then professional/graduate school.

My S and his friends are music majors and IUP has a good music program, and they manage to find things to do apart from partying.

We have financial and geographic limitations and tried to find a good school for our kids to get the degree they want.

I’m not saying PASSHE schools such as IUP are for everyone, but many seem to get a decent education there and might be attainable financially.

Partying is common at many schools.

99

“The reasons Pit and Penn State are more expensive is because that they are good schools”

Central PA resident here. Actually, the reason Pitt, Penn State, and Temple are more expensive in-state options is because they are not our actual state schools. They receive some tax payer money but operate autonomously. Our “in-state” tuition at these three schools is considerably higher than our actual state schools which are the PASSHE schools. And there is no merit to be had. Which leaves these three “in-state” options out of reach financially for many PA residents.

And then you have the PSU juggernaut. There are PSU branch campuses all over the state. Which cost more than the PASSHE schools and community colleges. And for many residents, the PSU branch campuses are the only viable commuter options. At the higher cost. And if you think you can transfer in to PSU main campus (University Park) from a community college or PASSHE school, think again.

To put it in perspective, Penn State University Park (which again, does get some tax payer money) is considered on par with the University of Maryland College Park. But Maryland residents pay for UMCP what I would pay for West Chester. Or Shippensburg. Or IUP.

Saying that the state-related schools are more expensive because they are “good schools” is a very simplified take on the very complex financial realities of “in-state” higher education in PA.

OP, I feel ya. S19 applied to Ship, PSU (UP, Altoona), Lebanon Valley, Susquehanna, and Loyola Maryland. Ship gave him $2k which surprised us. LVC and Susquehanna offered enough merit that the cost was just a bit higher than PASSHE but much lower than PSU. Loyola offered merit that brought the cost down closer to PSU. So it is possible to work around the PA issues.

Of course, he is going to PSU UP. And we are a full-pay family. So, our “in-state” annual cost with housing is $35k. Hardly affordable for all, good school or not. Shippensburg, with the merit, would have cost $22k annually with housing.

Lots of great advice already on this thread. Wish I could offer more. But at four hours away, Pittsburgh was too far for my S19 so I am not too familiar with the “west side” options. And I am not up on architecture programs. Kids from his class are attending Pitt and Westminster. And one of his best friends is attending SRU because it offers an accredited, affordable, in-state physical therapy program. Which seems like a smart move to me.

100

One possible factor that affects graduation rate, affordability. IUP and several other PASSHE schools have a much higher percentage of Pell eligible students than for example West Chester.

If those students don’t have parent support to help pay for college, they might have to take a semester off here and there to work. Many of those students will commute up to an hour to a school and/or work more than part-time.

IUP charges tuition by the credit. If you take 12 credits a semester it will cost less but take longer to graduate.

A student who has (above) average stats for IUP and other PASSHE schools, should be able to graduate in four years in most cases.

I know that my D’s degree requires almost 130 credits. He has no choice than to take 16 or 17 credits a semester to graduate on time. He student teaches one semester as well, so all other required classes have to fit into 7 semesters.

IUP accepts CLEP and AP credits which can save time. And if you can afford the extra tuition, there are winter and summer sessions to take classes.

The students that struggle are students who have a ademic and/or financial hurdles to overcome.