<p>"Today’s college students are more aware and informed about rising costs and financial aid, and more sensitive to price. That’s going to put ongoing pressure on the whole higher education industry’s finances, according to a Moody’s report (paywall) which gave a gloomy outlook for the whole sector." ...</p>
<p>I have seen this in action. Frankly, I am glad that some students are starting to really think about costs. While it has cost me a few students (who chose to attend schools where they received more funding), it has allowed me to engage in important discussions with other students about the value of their degree, the importance of budgeting/responsible borrowing, the options for loan repayment, and the like. A savvier student is a good thing.</p>
<p>As a taxpayer, I’d be happy to have more informed students and borrowers, so that we aren’t being asked to bail out folks who claim to have no idea that ed loans actually need to be repaid! It’s important for folks to really think about their options and what it means to be repaying up to 6 figure ed loans.</p>
<p>@kelsmom. I’m also seeing this phenomenon on a wide scale among the families I know. Lots of families trading higher ranking for more affordable tuitions. What I’m wondering though is when this change will become widespread enough to be reflected in the common data sets? I know several full pay families who have turned down the Ivy League (or equivalent or near equivalent) for big scholarships at lesser ranked schools. But yet when I look at the CDS’s the percentage of full pays at the elite schools remains constant. </p>
<p>When will the elite colleges feel the pinch? Will they ever feel it? </p>
<p>I don’t think the truly top schools will ever have a problem filling their classes with plenty of full pay kids. If anything, they can tap a vast international pool to fill in a few less domestic applicants.</p>
<p>I do think it is hitting the third and fourth tiered typed LAC’s. They are having to discount their tuitions, either directly or through FA and merit, in order to fill their classes.</p>
<p>On the other hand, schools like Furman in 2012 went the other direction, deciding to stop discounting and attempt more aggressive marketing to fill their classes. They will lose some good, high-achieving prospects to competitors.</p>
<p>This will be interesting to watch. If the market had not turned around, this would be a much more obvious and serious problem for schools, and we might have seen a number go under.</p>
<p>@halfemptypockets: Yep, both the good privates and top-end publics have been able to replace the full-pay American students they’ve lost with (mostly) full-pay internationals. Applications and enrollment from China have absolutely surged in recent years and they’re rising from elsewhere as well.</p>
<p>The lower-level privates discount so much now that the list price is almost a ficticious number for almost everyone there (around 90% getting some money/discounting from the school either in merit and/or fin aid).</p>
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<p>While the stock market has turned around, the jobs outlook, despite reduced unemployment, is still pretty grim. Lots of low paying and part time jobs have been adding to the payrolls. I’m pretty sure we’ll still see quite a few colleges go under. There are so many schools and fewer and fewer people willing to go into debt up to their eyeballs to attend. </p>
<p>There are some third tier schools that I think will be quite successful in the shakeout. LaSalle University in Philadelphia seems to be one. In the last month, LaSalle (which is local for us) has addressed two mailings to my husband and me. The mailings are full of scholarship information. I was pretty impressed by what I’d read, but D is already happy with her local merit granting options so we’re taking a pass. But I do know a handful of very good students considering attending LaSalle for next year. Unthinkable just a few short years ago.</p>
<p>@PurpleTitan - re: increases in full pay internationals - I guess we’ll be able to tell which schools are truly need blind in admissions!</p>
<p>@halfemptypockets: The schools who are truly need-blind can still be truly need-blind towards American applicants and still keep their full-pay share the same. Note that only a handful of schools state that they are need-blind towards internationals.</p>
<p>I always wonder about NYU. They always seem to be at the forefront when it comes to criticisms regarding the price of higher ed because they have an exceptionally expensive price tag but a small endowment which makes it for many, a financial aid nightmare. To compound matters, they have rather lofty real estate and development prospects around the world, meaning that what little endowment they do have usually is prioritized to fund overseas construction rather than student scholarships. In recent years, NYU students have been pretty vocal about what they consider to be the school’s abuse of their students - many students have had awards stripped from them arbitrarily, leaving with them gaps exceeding 10k and no way to pay for it aside from loans. </p>
<p>What will NYU do when students come to realize that a Manhattan college experience isn’t worth a six figure debt load? Maybe there will always be students that’ll be enticed by the Gossip Girl atmosphere. Their main selling point is experience and image (aside from solid-to-impressive academics - but that’s not unique to NYU); it’s worked for them up until now, maybe it’ll keep working for them. Maybe it won’t. </p>
<p>According to Wikipedia, here’s the list of schools need blind for internationals:</p>
<p>Amherst College
Dartmouth College
Harvard University
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Princeton University
Yale University</p>
<p>ETA: I’ll be keeping my eye on them and their Common Data Sets!</p>
<p>If colleges were VCRs, we would have the Black Friday specials with 600 dollars Betamax and 1,000 VHS. Inasmuch as having more discerning customers, the problems of unfettered inflation in education cost and the inability to realize that a system that believes in huge benefits and low expectations for the service providers has all the making of dinosaurs. Simply stated, we cannot afford the cost of the lifestyles the educators cling to preserve. Nor can we continue to afford the 24/7 entertainment that college life has become. </p>
<p>A gloomy outlook on the industry is the best news one could hope for as a customer. And the worse for the ones who have milked it to current mess it is today. </p>
<p>People are coming to realize that u can play golf just as well in a plain golf shirt as u can in the overpriced shirt w the polo pony embroidered on it.</p>
<p>We absolutely took cost into consideration when our children looked at colleges. Some of our kids had the transcript for top tier schools, but we didn’t have the pocketbook for them. So they applied to lower tier schools and received large merit scholarshlips which allowed us to be able to send all of our kids to college without any loans. </p>
<p>So far, neither my DH and I nor our children have any regrets. Life without loans is a beautiful thing. </p>
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<p>Many of us native New Yorkers already knew that from having grown up and sometimes seen/been around NYU before college. </p>
<p>Hence, one reason why I turned down NYU for my private midwest LAC. Stronger academics for my field and a near-full ride FA/scholarship package from the college. It’s a no brainer. </p>
<p>Granted, NYU back in the mid-'90s didn’t have the high prestige and mystique it seems to have gotten after the '00s. </p>
<p>Did get the feeling I dodged a substantial financial bullet after hearing how much debt even friends who attended NYU ended up with after graduation. </p>
<p>In contrast, only loan I took out was 3 figures which was paid off 6 months after graduation. Thank goodness I don’t have education debt hanging over my head to the tune of around $100k which I would have incurred if I had opted to attend NYU…and that’s not including compounding interest. And that’s with a FA/scholarship package several NYU friends said was unusually generous. :(</p>
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<p>Indeed. It’s one thing which I DON’T have to worry about unlike many friends, especially younger ones who attended NYU. </p>
<p>@bookreader I agree. I’m glad that we had firm convictions and older kids who were already college grads before I found CC. I would have been convinced we were destroying our ds’s future by the decisions made last yr if I didn’t know otherwise via our own outcomes. </p>
<p>If ds had posted asking "where " advice (which he did not), his scenario…*top student with 4.0 GPA including close to 50 credit hours of dual enrollment at 4 yr universities in 200 and 300 level math and science courses. I have had top grades in my classes I’m taking with college jrs and srs. Excellent LOR from profs. Attended multiple academic camps, including SSP. Great EC and national honorable mention science award. Where should I go? I want peers I can relate to. I want undergrad research. My goals are phD in physics and want to attend a top grad reseach program. But, my parents make too much money and won’t take out loans. *</p>
<p>I envision conflicting responses with some snarky comments like… *Alabama is a horrible choice for a top student. It isn’t a great school by any measurable metric. <a href=“That%20is%20the%20summation%20of%20a%20real%20response%20by%20a%20poster%20to%20someone%20recommending%20UA%20to%20a%20student%20whose%20stats%20were%20fine%20but%20more%20on%20par%20with%20our%20ds’s%2010th%20grade%20stats.%20%20So%20what%20does%20that%20say%20about%20our%20ds%20choosing%20UA?%20:”>/i</a> )</p>
<p>We would have been tormented by second guessing our decisions. It is easy to get sucked up in the hype that we should only give the best to our kids. Their futures depend on it. The mantra seems to suggest that top students are only found on the best campuses and by attending lower ranked schools our kids will be forced to experience brain rot bc they will never have a single challenging moment and their peers will only be the equivalent of a bunch of belly button lint pickers. ;)</p>
<p>Thankfully we know that top students do exist in places considered subpar by others, and those students thrive and are academically successful. (Love this list of undergrad research by CBHers at UA. <a href=“https://live.cbhp.ua.edu/schedule.php”>https://live.cbhp.ua.edu/schedule.php</a> )</p>
<p>So we resemble the life without loans is a beautiful thing. Our kids are succeeding. And for those who think UA isn’t a good choice by any possible metric, well, ds disagrees. He loves it and can’t imagine himself anywhere else. Roll Tide!!!</p>
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<p>I don’t know about the others, but MIT limits the number of international students accepted. I vaguely recall something like 100 internationals are allowed.</p>
<p>According to this link there are over 30 colleges which are need blind for international students. I have no idea how current or accurate the information is.</p>
<p><a href=“Need-Blind Colleges | Edvisors”>www.edvisors.com/plan-for-college/college-admissions/need-blind-admissions/</a></p>
<p>I can completely relate to your post @Mom2aphysicsgeek. </p>
<p>Top students become big fish in a small pond and there are plenty of perks to being that big fish. </p>
<p>@SoMuch2Learn: though there is a difference between being need-blind and meeting full need. UIC may be need-blind towards everyone, but they almost assuredly offer little fin aid to them.</p>