<p>What? Foreigners or ex-pats living abraod?</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure it does not include expats from abroad...even though these kids usually get lumped into "international" for the purposes of geographically divided evaluations of applications...but...</p>
<p>The number of expats abroad applying to many of these schools is pretty darn small compared with the number of true internationals-my son is one of 2 expat kids in the freshman class at his school, and there are 60 internationals...</p>
<p>In admissions vernacular, "international" refers to a non-US citizen or permanent resident.</p>
<p>Many "internationals" actually go to high school in the US.</p>
<p>Not sure how they calculate it. I think ex-pats are lumped in with Americans for admissions, then thrown into the international pool for statistics and orientation. Agree with Robrym, the number of expats is smaller than the number of non-US citizens.</p>
<p>Do you think that's good or bad? I heard that the stats for internationals are stronger in terms of standardized test scores, so if my D had to compete with them versus her compatriots back home, she would be at an disadvantage, no? Robyrm (did I spell that right?) I agree with what you said in the other post about diverse kids that are Americans making up an interesting group of students without the hassle of visas for internationals. We haven't actually lived in too many places though. Asia for two and a half years and then here. We've been in Europe for seven years so my kids are definitely TCKs. Advantage is, they're multi-lingual, but then I'm sure a lot of internationals are, especially ones from Europe. Never seizes to amaze me to see and hear some of these kids speak three, four, five languages. My D has travelled extensively though, you think that would be considered a 'hook'?</p>
<p>Damom,
At admission time at most schools, the true "international" kids are in a group by themselves in that they will be judged by somewhat different criterion- because most schools are not need blind for financial aid for internationals, because some schools(MIT, eg) have fairly strict quotas on how many internationals they take, etc. I don't think an American expat is going to be compared (in terms of test scores alone) with Internationals from the same country-- if that is what you are wondering...unless they attend the same school..and then I would guess some comparison takes place (but that is just my guess).</p>
<p>I think the expat lifestyle becomes a hook to the extent your child brings it into their application. Just traveling a lot doesn't cut it, having a unique insight into the diversity of their peers, world events, etc...would make a difference. I think, like any kid, they have to show how their experiences have shaped who they have become-- some essay topics lend themselves to this more readily. Both my sons wrote about it in very different ways. It is who they are, so it was relatively easy for them in that regard. Accentuate the positive!</p>
<p>I think perhaps the definition of 'internationals' may differ from college to college. Harvard - which is the only institution for which I have insight - considers internationals to be students from schools outside the US and Canada (regardless of nationality) as well as foreign nationals attending high schools in the US or Canada. Under this definition , a US expat is an international. I fully second Robyrm's post above. Living abroad in and of itself has little significance. I have interviewed students who have lived abroad for years without seemingly venturing beyond an American enclave - in these cases, their identity as 'American expat' actually hurts them.</p>
<p>Yes, it is a pity, samuk, when expats only associate with other expats; however, in some cases, especially for adults, it's a safety zone and necessary to stay sane. I personally avoided English-speakers when we first moved here so I could learn the language. Adjusted the TV so the kids could watch 'English' cartoons only in French. I've been lucky, because my kids have friends from literally all over the world and the different culture and languages they've been exposed to have been amazing.
Robyrm, I hope my daughter will incorporate some of her experiences and feelings into her essays. The environment here is definitely something we can't provide back home.</p>
<p>We'll be visiting colleges on the East coast (NE and Mid-Atlan.) this spring. Some people ask why, because we're from CA, but since we're here indefinitely, we wanted our D to be a bit closer to home...
We have about 12 universities on our tentative list! Would it be realistic to do two to three colleges per day? I'm really not familiar with the east coast. We'll fly into Dulles, rent a car, and start driving up...first stop-Princeton. We looked at the Middlebury website but they require the SAT II math and D doesn't want to do it so we knocked that off the list. Math is not her forte and she will avoid it if she can. I understand that Brown and Amherst don't have distribution requirements so I'm guessing those two are going to be on top of D's list, but who knows, she may hate the campus!?</p>
<p>damom, no, it's not realistic to visit two or three schools in a day. I would not recommend that. It would be possible to do two in a day, in a pinch, but only if they were located very close together, as in, in the same city. When we did our college visits for 3Ds so far, we allowed a day at each school. This way you can attend an information session, a tour of campus and dorms, you can eat in the dining hall, talk to students, perhaps sit in on a class or two. It would be difficult to do that in half a day, and impossible to do three times in a day. </p>
<p>One thing to keep in mind if you're visiting in the spring is that many schools do not hold information sessions or tours when their students are in their exam period. This may influence your decision as to when you visit. You can check the tour sessions on most schools' websites when you schedule your sessions online.</p>
<p>It was by no means ideal but my D and H did a quick trip to the US in the October half-term break: arrived Sunday night, flew home next Saturday evening. They attended info sesssions and tours at 6 colleges and did self-tours at two others. They flew into Boston, rented a car and flew home out of Philadelphia. Not ideal but doubt we'll have another chance to visit - the trip was productive in that D eliminated 5 colleges and is now motivated enough to really explore the websites of the three others.</p>
<p>damom
extensive international travel can only make a student look like a rich priveleged kid, not a good thing; if there was a twist to it though, like working part-time for 2 years to save money for a dream trip, or being a religious buff, and linking it to touring old churches in Spain,...........maybe..........</p>
<p>Last year we planned on seeing JHU and Georgetown in one day, checked on the tour and info.session timings, it all looked good. They are a few miles apart. But the traffic in D.C. is ridiculous, we did 25 miles in 2 hours, ended up in a questionable area of Baltimore where you did not want to roll down the windows to ask for directions. Now in Boston it is possible to do 2 schools, as there are a dozens of schools in the area.</p>
<p>If you are not seeing colleges in DC, you may be better off flying into Philly, for Princeton?</p>
<p>We plan to visit Georgetown and since the kids and I have never been to DC, we plan to recuperate from jetlag by touring around a bit before we head out to the colleges.
Samuck (sorry i missed the c last time), that's good to know. I hope my D will eliminate at least half of the colleges on her list after this trip!
Alwaysamom, did you have to let them know beforehand about sitting in on classes?</p>
<p>It's good form to arrive a little early, ans ask the prof. real quick if you can sit in. I have heard of people just walking into large lecture halls, and not get noticed.</p>
<p>damom, actually the 'c' is a typo on my part! My username was supposed to be a combo of real name plus country of residence but I ended up with something that sounds vaguely rude and haven't figured out how to correct.... The other good thing about D's college visit trip - no matter how whirlwind - is that it made the whole subject seem real to her for the first time.</p>
<p>LOL!"(about your username)
I'm sure that will be my D's case too. So far, I've been doing a lot of research for her not only because she just doesn't have the time, but because she's still not that motivated. It hasn't 'sunk in' that she'll be doing apps this fall. There are a couple of schools that she likes so she browses their website when she has the time, which is not often. This whole college app thing is VERY low-key here. Not the topic of conversation as it would be if we were back in the states.</p>
<p>damom, you should ideally have your itinerary planned out in advance and have contacted the schools to set up appointments, tours, information sessions and let them know that you would like to sit in on a class. At some schools, you will not be able to do any, or all, of these things without 'reserving a spot' before you arrive. Also, at some schools, they have a select list of what classes you can sit in on. It's not possible to just drop into any class at every school. In fact, at many schools you won't be able to even get into the buildings without some type of visitor pass.</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice. We do have a tentative itinerary, but I'm not absolutely sure we will stick to it so I'm hesitant to make appointments. We did, however, contact several schools to let them know we're coming. These are schools whose Admissions Officers we've met when they came here for a College Fair.</p>
<p>What are good safety schools on the east coast?</p>
<p>damom, we are also Americans living overseas. We found that colleges varied in how they classified American expats. If they need internationals to enhance their diversity statistics then expats go in the international column. Colleges like American expats. They get the bonus of diversity (and up their international percentage if they calculate in that way) but they don't have visa issues. If you need financial aid, however, you most likely don't want to be classified as an international applicant as schools that are needblind for or offer merit aid to internationals are few.</p>
<p>I think living in a foreign country -- especially one of the weird and wonderfuls--, speaking another language (or two), traveling and benefiting from that travel can be definite hooks as long as experience is articulated and reinforced in essays and interviews. It's not the experience per se, but how it stimulates thought and leads to personal interests.</p>
<p>If like many expat families you will only have one go at visiting schools and will not be able to return for a second look after the acceptances come in, then I would recommend that you try to research carefully before you leave so that you can spend maximum time and a minimum number of schools. (For example, we visited 14 in a three week period, including much needed time off.) I found it worked best to spend a whole day at each school. Do the information session, the tour, interview (if offered), eat in the dining hall, spend time wandering around campus, then head to the next campus for dinner and overnight. Or, since many of the east coast schools are close to each other, you can position yourself in a central location and make day trips.</p>
<p>As an expat parent, it was really important for me to be able to visualize where my son would be living and since a re-visit wasn't in the cards, our rule was no visit, no apply. We also made great use of Collegiate Choice videos, both for pre-screening and for follow-up refresher decision making.</p>
<p>You are right to ask about safety schools as these are the most time consuming. (It's easy to fall in love with HYP, but safeties are more subjective.) It's hard to recommend without knowing your child's situation and interest.</p>