Perfect ACT, average GPA. Colleges?

College Search & Selection
1

Sorry for the low effort-ish title. I am a junior in HS and am having difficulty with my college search.

I am a white, middle class male who lives in a suburb of Minneapolis.

I scored a 36 on the ACT with writing, but I expect to finish the year with a mediocre GPA of 3.5 UW.

I have good ECs, (Varsity cross country, JV track, state finalist in mock trial, I’ve written an article in a 250k+ reader paper, volunteering letter, bilingual in French and English, 3M young scientist’s challenge state winner, and several more,) and have teachers and coaches in mind who I know will write me strong letters of rec.

I attend a large, public, competitive high school in the Midwest, and have taken 4 AP classes and am planning on taking 4 more senior year. My scores are: European History - 4, US Gov - 4, French - 5, Lit & Comp - 5.

I’m really stuck in the college search process, as I want to attend to the best school I can. I have the names of a few colleges in mind, particularly some decent LACs (Grinnell, Carleton, Reed, Colorado College,) but I just would like to know whether it’s even worth applying to higher tier schools if my GPA is this low. I would appreciate some info regarding high tier schools that care more about test scores than GPA.

I have no preference in size, location, or Greek life.

I should be able to afford most colleges, but financial aid info is always appreciated.

Thanks for taking the time to read.

2

I think there are plenty of good schools in reach for you. Here are some thoughts I’ve come to after watching my son and his friends navigate the application process:

  • Financial need matters at most colleges, unfortunately. I believe that schools with lower financial aid budgets will wait list strong candidates who would need substantial aid to attend. If you are well set financially, I would advise you to seek out those schools, as you'll have an advantage there. I'm thinking specifically of Kenyon here but suspect Colorado College could fall in to this category as well. You'll have an edge if, upon submitting your financial aid documents, Admissions guesses that you'd be willing to pay close to full fare.
  • I think that GPA factors in to the part of the application calculation that is about answering the "is this student a safe bet" question, which is separate from "is this student super smart" and "does this student have a compelling life story." So, with your somewhat weaker GPA, you might want to look for other opportunities to prove that if admitted you will surely be collecting your diploma four years later. Do you maybe have an employment story you could tell? Could you get a letter from a manager who watched you succeed at an after school job, taking on additional responsibilities over time?
  • This might be a little less relevant specifically to your situation, but keep in mind that schools will also wait list or reject kids who are qualified but whom they suspect wouldn't attend if admitted, in order to keep their admit ratio down. My son was surprised to be rejected by some schools of much lesser standing than the one he eventually got in to, but on reflection these were schools he wasn't actually the best fit for anyway. So, I would say what's important for you here is to form a realistic picture of what kind of person you will come across as being to the admissions departments of these schools, and ask yourself — does that look like a Carleton person? A Reed person? For instance, my stereotype of those two schools is that culturally they could be rather far apart. What kid would apply to both? Again, from the point of view of the admissions departments. To go back to my son's example, he applied to both Pitzer and Claremont McKenna... two very different schools in the Claremont Colleges... and got in to neither!
3

You say that you have no preferences, but you really should. There is so much more to the college experience than just its “tier” in somebody’s rankings.

You need to visit different types of colleges and sit in on classes and eat the food and see the dorms.

Among the preferences you could find: location (urban/rural, distance from home), size/diversity of student body, extracurriculars available (do kids go to the beach on weekends or to football/basketball games), major programs, academic intensity, advising/mentoring, career/internship placement, the list goes on and on.

Once you actually have preferences, it’s easier to find a bunch of schools that have those things and then pick some at the safety, match, and reach level.

The “anything will do, if it’s the best school I could get into” should start to go away once you start looking more closely at the world of options.

I like the following survey as a place to start if you take the time to read all the explanations with each question:

http://www.schoolbuff.com/worksheets/2017/17%20Qualities%20That%20Will%20Make%20a%20College%20Right%20for%20You.pdf

4

I don’t think that you need to aim for the highest ranked school that you can get into. Some on your list seem like reaches to me. I know someone with much higher GPA who was turned down by Colorado College for example.

The first thing that I think that you should do is to try to pull up your GPA for this year. Your Junior year will be the last full year of grades that the universities will be looking at and if you are smart enough to get 36 on the ACT I don’t see why you are settling for half B’s and half A’s.

5

Good point in post #3. There are test-optional schools for kids who don’t have great ACTs, but no schools are GPA-optional. Your performance in high school will be very important in college admissions.

6

Thank you all for your responses. I agree that “the best I can get into” isn’t the best mindset in my college search. I mainly have this mindset because of my peers, who are “Ivy or bust” type people. This summer, I will visit colleges across the Midwest and a few on the west coast, to try and get a feel for what I’m looking for.

The main purpose of this post was to see if I can get into decent schools with a lower end GPA. I have my highest grades in my most rigorous classes; 3 As and 1 B+ in my AP classes. Easier classes are what are bringing me down, due to lack of effort, particularly freshman and sophomore year. (I’m so mad at myself now.) I’m hoping to get a 3.8-4.0 average this year, which will elevate me to around a 3.6-3.7 UW before senior year. I just wanted to be conservative with my estimate in case things go south. I’m working hard this year to get it up, and so far everything is going well.

I’m aware the main purpose of GPA in admissions is to measure student potential and potential risks. I believe that my grades in rigorous classes will show that I can succeed in a challenging academic environment.

I’m mainly just worried that colleges are believing more and more that test scores just measure your ability to perform on standardized tests rather than measure intelligence and work ethic.

@ytippiz I didn’t know colleges consider where else you apply when you are applying to their school. Thank you for this information. I’ll remember this when I’m writing essays.

Once again, thank you to everyone who responded. :slight_smile:

7

Colleges should not know where else you are applying.

8

However, some colleges weight test scores more, while other colleges weight GPA more. For example, USC and UCLA are often seen as being similarly selective. But their frosh profiles indicate that USC frosh had higher test scores, while UCLA frosh had higher GPA. So if the OP were to apply to both of these schools, s/he would probably have a better chance at USC than UCLA.

https://about.usc.edu/files/2016/10/Freshman-Profile-2016.pdf
http://www.admission.ucla.edu/Prospect/Adm_fr/Frosh_Prof16.htm

9

Chicago and WUSTL will both often snap up students like this.

10

UMN Twin Cities, U Wisconsin, and St Olaf are three solid matches. (Qualified: depends on what major you’re interested in at UMN.)
Look into Whitman, Occidental, UWashington Seattle; Kenyon, Skidmore, Colorado College, Denison, Dickinson, Connecticut College, Trinity College?
Definite merit and honors at UAlabama, Elon UVermont.

11

Maybe McGill . . . it’s more stats-oriented, and international universities value test scores highly.

12

I think you should add Haverford to the list. It is a top liberal arts college inn philadelphia and has many great perks. The college has some of the best undergraduate teaching in the country with 98 percent of the professors having the highest degree (mostly PHDs) in their respective fields. The head of the science department has great relationships with many top med school deans such as Hopkins, Columbia, Stanford, etc. For all fields the students get into top grad schools as well such as Harvard, Stanford, Wharton Business School to name a few. It is also part of the Quaker consortium and students can take classes at UPenn, Swarthmore, and Bryn Mawr. Not to mention a beautiful campus and great job opportunities after college. I think it is worth taking a look at.

13

Thank you all so much for your responses! I had low expectations for this forum, but received high quality and helpful information, and in-depth responses to my questions. I will be sure to take a look at all of the suggested schools, and try and find my best fit as well as a good school. Once again, thank you all!!!

14

Washington St Louis and Vanderbilt love high test scores, so they’d be worth a try.
No matter what, remember to start with 2 safeties you like, then add 3-5 matches. Once that’s done, you can add as many reaches as you wish.
Also, do check with your parents that you have no financial restrictions (or other restrictions) indeed.

15

@flytocollege
Emory, Vandy, and WUSTL are more stat sensitive in my opinion. Emory and Vandy has ED2 so those could be good options.

16

on top of vandy emory and wustl will say SMU because the GPA will be low still will get great scholarship money.

17

Keep in mind too that many colleges look holistically at an applicant – they see you as more than one test score or grade point average.

I think there are a number of great possibilities for you based on your information. But my advice as a parent of two Carleton College alums, one soon-to-be Colorado College alum and a first year undergrad at Dickinson College would be to VERY carefully consider what each college or university has to offer & then apply based on what you perceive as a strong fit. Make very sure to write a strong, well organized,thoughtful essay that shows who you are as a human being & why you think a particular place or program is right for you. Colleges really do read those essays, so take pains to submit the best one you can with as few errors as possible.

And keep your chin up! It’s difficult for everybody – no matter how high or low their numbers are. Just remember there are so many great places to study & with wonderful campus communities. You will find a GREAT fit throughout the process. Just try to be as confident as you can. Good luck!

18

“Maybe McGill . . . it’s more stats-oriented, and international universities value test scores highly.”

A 3.5 unweighted would be low for McGill. However, McGill won’t care about freshman year, which might pull OP’s GPA up higher, particularly if his junior year comes in strong.

19

What about APs? Are you interested in going abroad? Do have a specific subject that you want to focus on? UK universities don’t care about/understand GPA and instead just look for a bunch of 5s on your APs. And if you test well, you’d probably enjoy their high stakes (often solely) exam-based grading.

20

@flytocollege, definitely try for some super reach schools, but highly selective schools such as Vanderbilt, Wash U, amongst others, have plenty of 34+ ACT and 3.8+ UW GPA applicants so make sure you include a mix of reach, target and safety schools. While a I would recommend that you look at USNWR 20-30 ranked schools for more likely reaches IMHO.