<p>I know this is contoversial but I saw an ad for a program in Strings Magazine. Anyone ever heard of "Perfect Pitch-Ear Training Super Course?"
Perfect</a> Pitch Ear Training SuperCourse: Name Notes & Chords by EAR.</p>
<p>Sorry about the post. I did find an old discussion of this program in the archives.
greg</p>
<p>Couple of comments, and keep in mind this is not from a music professor or musician, just what I have learned the hard way.</p>
<p>Perfect pitch, or the ability to distinguish notes and chords on hearing them, is a natural ability from all I can tell (according to some experts, all kids have perfect pitch when they are born, it is fundamental to our learning language; it explains, for example, why children in countries where the language depends on inflection and tone, like Chinese, have much higher rates of having perfect pitch, it is quite higher) but then kids lose it (Oliver Sachs in his book musicophilia mentions rates of perfect pitch, and if a kid doesn’t get into something like music that can use it, the rate as they get older plummets…though for example Chinese kids, because of the nature of the language, still retain PP at higher levels then let’s say english speakers). What makes perfect pitch, or absolute pitch, distinctive is that it doesn’t require an outside tone for reference to figure out a pitch, it is inherent, the person hears a note and knows what it is (even more fun, be around someone with PP, and they will tell you the squeal of a bus’s brakes are A#, a car horn is Bb, etc)…</p>
<p>I am dubious about ‘learning’ perfect pitch this way, from everything I have read by people like Oliver Sachs and Daniel Letvin, I doubt it can be taught this way, through drill and so forth. This sounds more to me like relative pitch, where someone is trained to determine pitch using a reference tone. With enough practice, a user can ‘hear’ a reference tone, such as 440 A in their head, if I understand it correctly, and can determine the pitch by using that internal note as a reference. </p>
<p>That said, there is a lot of myth about perfect pitch, myths that I used to believe. One of the biggest is that perfect pitch somehow is going to make someone a great musician, and that isn’t true. In fact, perfect pitch can be a hindrance (I’ll explain that in a second). </p>
<p>So why do people believe this? There are places where perfect pitch can be advantageous. For example, people with perfect pitch often have the ability to play an instrument ‘by ear’, they can, for example, pick up an instrument and by ‘fooling around’, play a simple piece by ear (sometimes complex ones). In traditions were you learn pieces this way, like fiddling or folk music, having that ear can help you learn new pieces a lot easier IME. </p>
<p>But it is a hindrance, and here is why:</p>
<p>1)Because they can often ‘play by ear’, kids learning an instrument can get away with learning pieces, like in Suzuki violin training, by listening to a recording or a teacher play it, and ‘play it back’, often well enough that the teacher thinks they have learned to do the piece. I had a great uncle who was supposedly like that, definitely had perfect pitch, who had piano lessons as a child, could play the pieces well, but never learned to read music…it is a crutch that can stop kids from learning the right practice skills and such IME, it is kind of like the kid who is really bright who can get through grade and middle school without studying or cracking a book…</p>
<p>2)The other problem with perfect pitch is that much of music revolves around relative pitch. Want an example? Someone with perfect pitch can see the note A and play it to 440 (assuming an instrument in concert pitch), but if the orchestra is tuning to 442 or 443, they would be playing the note perfectly at 440, and be out of tune…it also can get a player in trouble when they need to adjust to someone they are playing with who may technically be out of tune or using different tuning, since their ‘internal tuner’ is based on a certain frequency. </p>
<p>It is why they teach ear training, which if I understand it correctly is all about relative pitch, because that is the real tool, and perfect pitch works against that in many cases in my understanding. I also have heard that in ear training courses when teachers know a student has perfect pitch, they go out of their way to make sure the student can’t use their PP ability as a crutch (like, for example, not giving them time to figure out, using PP, what an interval is).</p>
<p>We know only a handful of people with perfect pitch, and they are all terrific musicians. My son’s was noticed at age 4 or 5, and I cannot say that it has been a hindrance at all. It has not made him lazy, nor does he use it like a crutch. Yes, it makes things easier, and he also finds that he really enjoys playing with others with perfect pitch. </p>
<p>I don’t think you can teach PP, no matter what anyone says. I have excellent relative pitch, as does my daughter, but we haven’t been able to learn what I believe is an innate trait. I think one can absolutely improve relative pitch, to a very high level, which is usually plenty good enough.</p>
<p>Yep, there are great musicians with PP, but the overwhelming majority of musicians, including at a high level, don’t have PP. I am trying to remember the exact number, but it is something like 15% among western kids in music, and much higher among Asian kids who are music students or musicians. </p>
<p>My original point is that having PP is not a big deal when it comes to studying and working in music for the most part, that if someone doesn’t have it it has little to do with whether they can be a succesful musician or not, that’s all. Courses like this are trying to take advantage of the myth around PP, which as an acquaintance of mine, a well known Broadway and Classical music performer said, is more a party trick then a serious tool for musicians <em>shrug</em>.Yes, a there are a lot of students/performers with PP who are seriously musical, no doubt about it, but in the end it is going to be their teachers, how hard they worked and how talented they end up that is going to get them there, not having PP IMO.</p>
<p>I know a GREAT jazz pianist with perfect pitch. He tells this story: At a birthday party there was a piano, so the hosts asked him to play “Happy Birthday.” Turns out the piano was woefully out of tune, so when his hands went to the keys to play, HE LITERALLY COULDN’T FIND THE NOTES!! Funny story, especially if you ever heard this guy play!</p>
<p>I have perfect pitch, and I can honestly say that it is a mixed blessing. In most cases, it’s a HUGE help. I’ve never had to learn how to sight sing, melodic dictation is a breeze, and I can play by ear fairly well. I don’t think I really use it as a “crutch” either - I can hear intervals without having to think of each note and figuring out the distance between them. However, there are times when perfect pitch can be annoying. Singing in a cappella choral pieces is extremely tough for me, because even good choirs have a tendency to go slightly flat when unaccompanied. If the chorus goes a complete half step flat, I’m usually okay because I can just transpose in my head as I go, but if the chorus settles on a nonstandard pitch, I have a lot of trouble figuring out what notes to sing and staying in tune. It’s very difficult for me to sing and hold a nonstandard pitch - I usually end up settling on a standard one after a couple seconds. I have intonation issues when I play cello in orchestras as well - it’s difficult for me to “tune” to a chord or temper my pitch. But by and large, I feel extremely lucky to have it. I would say it has had no effect on my musical ability. I mean, for an incredibly high passage on a cello piece, I don’t have to sit there and plunk out the notes on a piano so I can hear what it should sound like, but still, that doesn’t mean I will land each one perfectly in tune every time. I’m just as prone to mistakes as anyone else is, and I have to practice just as much to eliminate them.</p>
<p>I started playing piano when I was 4, and I can remember recognizing pitches as early as age 6. To me, it’s a lot like recognizing color. When I hear a melody played, I know what the notes are, but I don’t think of the letter names of the notes. Just like when you look at a leaf, you know it is green, but you don’t think in your head, “This is green.” Also, some people claim to be able to determine the exact frequency of a pitch without any reference, and immediately say, “That’s an A443.” I can’t do that. Basically, any given note I hear falls into one of twelve categories (there are twelve different standard pitches in western music). Every now and then I can recognize nonstandard pitches, and say, “That’s between a C and C-sharp,” but usually, I really struggle with that.</p>
<p>At any rate, for me, perfect pitch is very intuitive. I don’t know all of the biology and psychology behind it, but I would think it would be difficult to be “trained” to have perfect pitch. I think the above posters are right in suggesting that software like this only teaches very strong relative pitch. I know many string players that have an A440 in their head all the time and can figure out pitches relative to that, and some can do it incredibly quickly. But there’s still a thought process, whereas for me, it’s just kind of automatic.</p>
<p>That’s just how it is for me, but I’m always interested to hear how other people with perfect pitch see (hear?) things. It seems to be slightly different in every case.</p>
<p>allegro-
I highly recommend reading oliver sach’s book “musicophilia”, it is a great read in general, and he has a whole section on perfect pitch and its variations. For some people perfect pitch actually bothers them, because with every sound they hear they pitch identify it. A related facet of the human mind is people who see notes as colors, some people can literally be distracted to tears by music (in the book, there is a description of a woman who only listened to heavy metal music, because it apparently didn’t trigger this in her, it was the only music that didn’t do so). Between Oliver Sachs and Daniel Letvin I learned a lot about the brain and music, it is pretty incredible stuff. Best one was the doctor who got struck by lightening (literally), and became obsessed with the piano and the music of Chopin:)</p>
<p>My son has PP. When he was 5 and had just begun piano lessons, I was using my electric toothbrush. He informed me that my toothbrush sound was a C. I went over the piano to see, and of course, he was right. He quickly moved on to things like chair legs screeching across tile, an elevator ding, a baby crying. It’s like a game to him, and he always wins. But that’s the fun part. Along with, yes, “acing” certain aspects of his music theory courses and other obvious advantages.</p>
<p>The Not Fun part is that it’s like nails on chalkboard to him when anyone he’s playing with is even slightly off key. Or the radio station has sped up or slowed down a song, changing the key. He tries to be gracious, but hearing anything sharp or flat is really hard for him, so until he learned to temper his “pitch perfectionism” in public, there were related social/musician-sportsmanship difficulties, if you will.</p>
<p>When asked to describe what it’s like, he says his mind “pictures” notes as concretely as I can picture a color. That seemed to explain it pretty well. From what I’ve seen, mastering or improving one’s “relative” pitch would be handy enough. Perfect pitch definitely has its downside.</p>
<p>When my son was in the high school orchestra the director learned by the expression on his face that someone was definitely out of tune. She would stop and wait for him to go make the adjustment in the offending violin then continue</p>
<p>Mine also has PP, identified early. Like some of the others, it is far more blessing than a hindrance. </p>
<p>I recall the grimaces srw mentions numerous times on son’s face over the years.</p>
<p>Interestingly, we as an extended family took part in a genetic research study (I forget which one, I can look it up if anyone is interested) where they wanted cell swabs from those with PP, and parents, sibs, and grandparents or earlier generations in an attempt to identify a gene potentially associated with PP. No one else besides son in the family has PP, or is a musician.</p>
<p>What exactly is perfect pitch? Do you have to be able to give the note right away? I never thought I had perfect pitch but I can name notes (a little while) after hearing them by like, matching it with a pitch I remember from the clarinet, and then transposing it to concert pitch XD That doesn’t count does it?</p>
<p>That is not perfect pitch, that is relative or acquired pitch, in that it uses some sort of reference note in figuring out what the note is. Someone with perfect pitch, once they have heard a note, can instantaneously tell you what it is.</p>
<p>Just as a sidenote, there are some studies that indicate that with young children (<5), if you give them the concept of what notes are, can almost all tell what a note is by hearing it, but that most children lose it. Jean Piaget, the child development theorist, thought that learning to read might be responsible for losing that ability. From the research I have seen, some believe all children have it to be able to learn speech, but that some small subset are able to keep it as time goes on, and it is much higher with those taking music and/or learn tonal languages like Chinese, which somehow ‘keeps it going’</p>
<p>Musicprnt, Allegrovivace, and Jazz/shredderMom, it was interesting to read your comments about perfect pitch. My daughter has it and has tried to explain to me why solfege can be harder for her, because she doesn’t naturally use the intervals, she just hears the notes in her head. And when anyone is slightly off musically, she looks like she is in pain!</p>
<p>Violadad, it’s the same for me - no one I can find in my family has perfect pitch or is even musical at all. Many people have told me that they think it’s genetic, but it also must be developed at a young age, but I think most of the research done up until this point has been inconclusive. And I think I may have actually come across the website once for the research study to which you’re referring. I really hope more research is done about it, just because I think it’s a fascinating and puzzling phenomenon.</p>
<p>And just for the record, when those of us with perfect pitch cringe at poor intonation and nonstandard pitches, it’s not because we’re trying to show off (most of the time, anyway!). I truly feel physically uneasy/anxious/confused when I hear “off” (nonstandard) notes. So our facial responses aren’t COMPLETELY fake - it’s kind of a natural reflex, for me at least.</p>
<p>Not sure if he has perfect pitch, but my H’s ears wiggle when a choir is off pitch. It’s really hilarious. Reminds me of a dog when it hears an unusual sound.</p>
<p>Perfect pitch is not an “all or nothing” phenomenon. People can possess it in varying degrees. Some are able to identify when pitches are off by a couple of hertz, while others with perfect pitch cannot (almost no one with perfect pitch could identify that an A at 441 Hz is sharp). </p>
<p>Clearly, it is something that can be learned to an extent, although people vary considerably in their capacity to learn it (and just as some people are colour blind, there are rare individuals that are relatively “pitch blind” or perhaps a better term might be “pitch deaf”), and young children can acquire it much more readily than adults (just as young children can acquire good pronunciations in foreign languages very easily and most adults have huge difficulties with good pronunciation in languages acquired as an adult). Some facts which support the learning of perfect pitch: a) Children who speak tonal languages have a much higher probability of having perfect pitch; b) Children who learn music at an early age have a much higher probability of having perfect pitch; c) Children who do not learn to make music do not have perfect pitch. Just as some people are genetically wired to learn mathematics very easily, some people are genetically wired to learn perfect pitch very easily. </p>
<p>I know of people who have very good perfect pitch in certain ranges but are not very good at identifying pitches far outside those ranges.</p>
<p>I don’t believe that perfect pitch is valuable enough to bother expending considerable time acquiring it. There are other party tricks which can be more easily and inexpensively acquired! Relative pitch is much much more important to a musician. Any excellent musician without perfect pitch can very accurately and quickly identify even slightly bad intonation. People with perfect pitch do not control the market on the identification of bad intonation.</p>
<p>Those with very acute perfect pitch can find it incredibly bothersome: they just simply cannot sing with or play violin or flute or trumpet with a piano that is tuned to something like A=444 instead of the standard A=440. However, the vast majority of people with perfect pitch regularly play with pianos that are not at exactly A=440 and they never recognize that the piano is off by a hertz or two. Almost all of us can tell the difference between green and blue, but we vary in our ability to accurately distinguish amongst more subtle changes between green and blue and no one can identify a colour accurately to the nearest nanometer, just as no one (even those with incrediby acute “perfect pitch”) can identify pitch perfectly to the nearest tenth of a hertz.</p>
<p>Sopranomom: I am curious. Is your husband’s ear-wiggling involuntary? Regardless, I wish I could see it: being distracted and entertained by the ears would make the pain of the choir’s sound much more endurable!</p>
<p>I agree with violindad that PP is not “all or nothing.” I have PP and I feel like my PP ability has been slipping as a result of not tuning my piano for 10 years. After 10 years of gradual pitch fall, my piano is about a quarter step flat now, and it seems like my PP memory has adapted to my piano. When I listen to recordings or other pianos, I can identify the pitch with no problem, but I recently found out that when I was asked to sing an A, I sang it a little bit flat (about a quarter step).</p>
<p>The greatest setback of having PP is when I’m asked to sightsing in moveable do. It’s almost impossible for me.</p>
<p>Pianist87, that’s unfortunate, but kind of interesting! I’ve never heard of such a thing, but I wonder if someone would “lose” their PP if not exposed to music for an extended period of time. Obviously, your case is different, but say someone with PP spent 10 years in jail, listening to no music. When they get out, do they still have it?</p>
<p>Moveable do is also difficult for me. I was forced to do it for many years in Chorus though, and eventually became sort of used to it. It comes with practice.</p>